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Thread: Do you, AD Photog, mind having their relative to be the 2nd photog (paid or unpaid)?

  1. #1

    Default Do you, AD Photog, mind having their relative to be the 2nd photog (paid or unpaid)?

    Hi All Old Birds and all,

    Just got a curious Question to ask.


    Do you Guys , AD Photog (Paid) , mind having their relative to be the 2nd photog (paid or unpaid, Greenhorn or Pro)?

    Do u guys mind?
    The relative to cover the angles that you cant cover?
    Be at places you cant be? ( coz you can only be at one place right?)

    Thanks for giving ur precious comments and views =)

    Cheers.
    Last edited by Filbertoh; 25th November 2008 at 12:48 PM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Do you, AD Photog, mind having their relative to be the 2nd photog (paid or unpa

    u might wanno review the previous similar posts please..there has been debates on the same issue....
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  3. #3
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    Default Re: Do you, AD Photog, mind having their relative to be the 2nd photog (paid or unpa

    frankly, i met some nice uncle, aunties who are just some happy clickers with their small pocket cameras. That, i dont mind.

    For other types, aiyoh.... their interference is bad....
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    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you, AD Photog, mind having their relative to be the 2nd photog (paid or unpa

    Seriously...I don't mind,

    as long they don't get into my way and let me do my job.

    but be warned, if I miss any shots becos of this, it is the loss of the couple.
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  5. #5

    Default Re: Do you, AD Photog, mind having their relative to be the 2nd photog (paid or unpa

    Quote Originally Posted by Wibblo View Post
    u might wanno review the previous similar posts please..there has been debates on the same issue....
    Hi =) yup i have gone tru them already. ok i've edited what i actually meant

    =) Cheers

  6. #6

    Default Re: Do you, AD Photog, mind having their relative to be the 2nd photog (paid or unpa

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    Seriously...I don't mind,

    as long they don't get into my way and let me do my job.

    but be warned, if I miss any shots becos of this, it is the loss of the couple.
    Thanks catchlights =) and i agree to you . but any idea to avoid that?

    Yeah .. hindering the photog doing his job is a very bad move.. =)

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    Default Re: Do you, AD Photog, mind having their relative to be the 2nd photog (paid or unpa

    Personally I dun mind it at all. In fact it's great to have someone to talk to/discuss when there's free time. Go to places that the main photographer is not there. Keep out his line of sight. When he is infront.. you can shoot the back.. etc. You can do the group shots when he do the candids etc.. discuss with him and ask him where he wants you to be..

  8. #8

    Default Re: Do you, AD Photog, mind having their relative to be the 2nd photog (paid or unpa

    Quote Originally Posted by m3lv1nh0 View Post
    Personally I dun mind it at all. In fact it's great to have someone to talk to/discuss when there's free time. Go to places that the main photographer is not there. Keep out his line of sight. When he is infront.. you can shoot the back.. etc. You can do the group shots when he do the candids etc.. discuss with him and ask him where he wants you to be..
    Thanks alot m3lv1nh0

  9. #9

    Default Re: Do you, AD Photog, mind having their relative to be the 2nd photog (paid or unpa

    What's there to mind? They are your customer's guests afterall. Just do your job loh. If they are new and inexperience I will even give them tips and advices on what/how to shoot.

    I'm sure most or all of us have similar experiences of friends/relatives coming to wedding with DSLR/PnS/videocam/camera phone etc. And there are unavoidable times when many of them will block you during the couples' march-in (whether ballroom or church). In such circumstances, you can't stop the couple from marching in and ask these people to move aside can you?

    Usually I will shoot and give them the photos. If you don't shoot, they may think you 'boh joh gung'. Give them the shots and they will understand it isn't your fault it turn out this way.

    I even worked with videographers (2 of them) whereby one of them use a DSLR as backup (strange isn't it?) and he will sometimes block me too. I can only say, do your job as best as you can. End of the day, just ask yourself if you have done your job well.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Do you, AD Photog, mind having their relative to be the 2nd photog (paid or unpa

    Quote Originally Posted by david_goh View Post
    What's there to mind? They are your customer's guests afterall. Just do your job loh. If they are new and inexperience I will even give them tips and advices on what/how to shoot.

    I'm sure most or all of us have similar experiences of friends/relatives coming to wedding with DSLR/PnS/videocam/camera phone etc. And there are unavoidable times when many of them will block you during the couples' march-in (whether ballroom or church). In such circumstances, you can't stop the couple from marching in and ask these people to move aside can you?

    Usually I will shoot and give them the photos. If you don't shoot, they may think you 'boh joh gung'. Give them the shots and they will understand it isn't your fault it turn out this way.

    I even worked with videographers (2 of them) whereby one of them use a DSLR as backup (strange isn't it?) and he will sometimes block me too. I can only say, do your job as best as you can. End of the day, just ask yourself if you have done your job well.
    Thanks for the assuring words Hope there are more professional ppl like you around willing to share the skills and knowledge but i do know some ppl who are good but yet too modest to share, thinking that probably the other party is more experienced thean themselves.

    i think there are others like me afraid to ruin the shots for the bride and groom, yet want to have a chance to capture moments for the couple which they have sort of missed out =(
    Guess must really get it into my head haha ..

  11. #11
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you, AD Photog, mind having their relative to be the 2nd photog (paid or unpa

    Quote Originally Posted by Filbertoh View Post
    Thanks catchlights =) and i agree to you . but any idea to avoid that?

    Yeah .. hindering the photog doing his job is a very bad move.. =)
    you will meet as sorts of people in a wedding, and sometime you may don't see anyone carry a camera, but sometime you will see a few.

    Most people are ok, they know what are they suppose to do during the event, remember, they are the guests of the wedding couple, treat them with respect, and let them know you have a job to do.
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    Default Re: Do you, AD Photog, mind having their relative to be the 2nd photog (paid or unpa

    I know of a photographer, who once had a client insist that a personal friend be the 2nd photographer, in place of the main photographer's regular associate; all this despite some church rules of only allowing 2 photographers to be present.

    When it was time to design the album, the client demanded that his friend's shots be placed in the album.

    Problem.

    So, yes, while i don't mind someone else being the 2nd photographer and all, only Reflection Photography work is going to end up in the album. Period.

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    Default Re: Do you, AD Photog, mind having their relative to be the 2nd photog (paid or unpa

    i ever was "those" ppl. groom asked me to get candids and all. i tried my very best to not hinder his movement n angles. but mine nt so gd example. d official photog quite noob. in fact, he copied my angles most of the time. can tell. haha. he had limited perspective la. so ya. from my case, the official could even benefit from having noobs like "us" around. hahaha.

    but he was nice. we did chat whenever we had time.
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  14. #14

    Default Re: Do you, AD Photog, mind having their relative to be the 2nd photog (paid or unpa

    smile, show respect, what's round, comes around.

    but of cos the official cameraman get the priority, the backup is not called a backup for nothing.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Do you, AD Photog, mind having their relative to be the 2nd photog (paid or unpa

    attended my cousin's wedding recently, from the morning shots, can see the main photog was a total disaster, harsh flash, flat pics, blur pics, etc. dinner time march in, he was always behind the couple. at the 2nd march in, i took the initiative and went in front of the couple and took some shots. mine turned out pretty well, hope the main photog's dinner shots will be much better than his morning ones, or else my cousin will be super disappointed. i think sometimes if the 2nd photog sees that the main one is struggling, perhaps he shld help out a bit.

  16. #16
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you, AD Photog, mind having their relative to be the 2nd photog (paid or unpa

    Quote Originally Posted by Reflection View Post
    I know of a photographer, who once had a client insist that a personal friend be the 2nd photographer, in place of the main photographer's regular associate; all this despite some church rules of only allowing 2 photographers to be present.

    When it was time to design the album, the client demanded that his friend's shots be placed in the album.

    Problem.

    So, yes, while i don't mind someone else being the 2nd photographer and all, only Reflection Photography work is going to end up in the album. Period.
    Ouch!! that hurts!!
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    Default Re: Do you, AD Photog, mind having their relative to be the 2nd photog (paid or unpa

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    Ouch!! that hurts!!
    Well, it's not because the shots were bad. The groom wanted those pictures taken by his friend in the album, because he felt that the main photographer failed to capture those images.

    Of course, had the main photographer been allowed to bring his associate (which he doesn't charge for), his associate would've been present to capture whatever shots the groom's friend took.

    The issue is this: Putting another person's work in the album is tricky, especially when many of us have our company logos on the album covers etc.

    Two ways of dealing with this: Deliver a blank album with no company logo, or just standing firm when house rules or personal requests start to impede one's ability to work properly.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Do you, AD Photog, mind having their relative to be the 2nd photog (paid or unpa

    Yes, I would mind. If theyr'e just taking casual snap shots, I don't. But if they're so much as functioning as a '2nd photog' or 'backup photog', I have a clause in the contract (which I will take my time to explain and justify to my clients) that will release me of my obligations.

    Reason no. 1: Most of these '2nd photogs' or 'backup photogs' are enthusiasts and passionate about photography. In all the excitement to put their knowledge into practice, sometimes it is difficult, or even unreasonable to expect them to remember to give priority to the official photographer. A photographer's natural instinct is to get the best position, best angle possible. When these friends or relatives assume these positions, it means one thing - I have lost that position. Many a times the friend/family would show initiative and try not to be too obstrusive. But there are also those confident and swaggering ones who moves into your frame just before you click your shutter. That one moment is lost forever to me. And if it's a significant-enough moment, it's one moment lost forever to the couple -because I will not use any works of photographers other than those hired by my company, in albums produced by my company.

    Reason no. 2: I don't like to have photographers in my frames. Friends and family who're taking candid shots, yes. But not those DSLR with grips and mega flashes. Even my own employed assistants are told not to get into my frames. This is one of the very first things I brief my assistants on. This is usually shared by my clients. But when clients express that they don't mind, I will have to explain that it's my artistic preference. If it's intentional of me to capture a friend or relative inside my composition, then of course there's no issue. However, there're also moments whereby a over-zealous friend/family would take the opposite angle and flash into my frame and ruin my exposure. Although I have been indemnified when these happens, that moment is forever lost. Clients have to respect my preference as an artist if they were to decide to go with me. If they see their wedding day photography as a consolidation of snapshots taken by different people from different angles, then they would be using the wrong guy if they were to hire me.

    At the end of the day, this is what I try to make clear to my clients. They have decided that my presentation, images in the portfolio, samples and so on justify my worth. When they hire me, they feel that I'm 'worth' hiring. But if there are circumstances that are introduced (which could have been within control) that would interfere with the workflow, then I would not be allowed to do my job in the best way possible.

    I'm sure that in this digital age, everyone (family and guests) can be involved in the wedding day more intimately through photography. My illustrations are of course, more extreme ones which most people don't encounter, or don't notice from their perspective. If fellow passionate photographer hobbyists want to be involved, by all means if they don't get into the way. That's the most important thing we're concerned about. Getting in front of the main photographer's frame is getting in the way. Getting into the frame of the photographer's composition (ala, a 2nd photographer style, not 'uncle bob' style) is getting in the way. Doing all the family group shots that the couple wants in the album is getting in the way (groups hate to pose for 2 different photographers for 4 shots. Eats up photographer's coverage time too).

    I understand how couples want to allow their friends and family to be involved in terms of photography. My bottomline is, they've paid me to do my job, so as long as I'm allowed to do my job in the best possible way, then - please let me do my job.
    Last edited by shinken; 26th November 2008 at 10:31 AM.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Do you, AD Photog, mind having their relative to be the 2nd photog (paid or unpa

    So to summarise, we all don't really mind other photographers being around, provided they don't get in our way.

    Sometimes it's difficult. One wedding I shoot, got no less than SIX DSLR toting uncles around. Most of the time, they try to be considerate, but crucial moments like march-in during banquet, etc they get over excited and cramp up the entire walkway. If I had headache, think about the official videographer! In such cases, where we got no time to be nice, sometimes got no choice but to be a bit rude and start elbowing our way through, and this could lead to misunderstanding.
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  20. #20

    Default Re: Do you, AD Photog, mind having their relative to be the 2nd photog (paid or unpa

    I think this issue does not only apply to AD events. It can be any event. Esp when the photog are paid/assigned to do their job.

    Recently, I was at a church function. They had 2 assigned (paid or not, I dunno) photog. But the parents/relatives were in the way all the time. I could see the frustration on the 2 photog's faces.

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