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Thread: Some questions after using Spyder3 Pro

  1. #1

    Default Some questions after using Spyder3 Pro

    Hi all,

    I just bought a Spyder3 Pro last week to calibrate my monitor and I have some questions thar I hope you guys can help me with.

    1) The spyder software has created a new ICC profile for my monitor. This should be set as the default profile in the control panel rite?

    2) Should I remove all the other profiles I used to associate with the monitor like the sRGB?

    3) From other threads, I gathered that the working space in PS should remain as sRGB. When I choose to "Proof Colours" to monitor, the colours changes slightly. I know that this is showing the picture using just the monitor profile (same as on a non-icc software like windows picture viewer?). My question is if i DONT click "proof colours", what colours is PS showing? sRGB + monitor profile or just the sRGB profile? So can I say the one shown in PS is the "correctly calibrated photo"?

    4) So after calibrating my monitor and using sRGB colour space in PS, assuming the lab I am using has also calibrated their printer, the colours should come out similiar?

    5) What about posting on the net? If I am seeing a slightly warmer picture in windows viewer as compared to in PS, will other ppl see the warmer version as well? Any ways to ensure the photo will appear correctly on other computers short of getting everyone to calibrate their monitor?
    D700|24-70 f2.8|50mm f1.8|105VR f2.8 Micro|28-70 f3.5-4.5|SB600|SB800

  2. #2
    Moderator Octarine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Some questions after using Spyder3 Pro

    1. Yes. Spyder provides a small tool that will set the created profile as standard profile and also allows multiple profiles in case you have two monitors.
    2. You can remove all vendor profiles. Personally I leave the sRGB profile, doesn't do anything.
    3. You will always see sRGB since your monitor (most likely) cannot display anything else. Normally, PS will show the colours corrected by the profile. Your 'proof colours' function seems to take away the monitor profiling. Can't say much about that, I use Lightroom.
    PS doesn't show a 'calibrated photo'. What you see are the colours of the picture corrected by the profile to offset the characteristics of your display. In result you will see the colours as they are digitally encoded in the picture.
    4. The lab will need to calibrate against the paper they use, you can't do much about that. When you deliver your files for printing please highlight that no further adjustments need to be done. Otherwise they default "enhancements" will be sued which will throw off your work.
    5. You can't do much about the profiling and adjustments of other people's displays. I have seen displays that were so much off that it hurt already seeing the normal desktop. But with your profiling you will make sure that your colours are correct, in result the colours at other displays shouldn't be too far off.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Some questions after using Spyder3 Pro

    Just to clarify if my concept is correct...

    On a wrongly calibrated monitor:
    sRGB photo produced on calibrated system -> Goes thru wrong monitor profile -> RGB values skewed by profile -> Appears wrong to user
    User edits sRGB photo -> Looks thru a wrong monitor profile -> RGB values skewed by profile -> User thinks colours correct


    On a correctly calibrated monitor using photoshop:
    sRGB photo produced on calibrated system -> Goes thru calibrated monitor profile -> RGB values adjusted correctly to monitor profile -> Appears correct to user

    On a correctly calibrated monitor using non ICC compliant software like windows viewer, shouldnt it be like this:
    sRGB photo produced on calibrated system (default colour space in window viewer is sRGB also?) -> Goes thru calibrated monitor profile -> RGB values adjusted correctly to monitor profile -> Appears correct to user


    So shouldnt the photo appear the same in PS and in windows viewer if my PS colour space is sRGB (which is the same as the windows viewer one??) since they both go thru the same calibrated monitor profile when viewed on the same system? Why do I see slight difference btw the 2?
    D700|24-70 f2.8|50mm f1.8|105VR f2.8 Micro|28-70 f3.5-4.5|SB600|SB800

  4. #4

    Default Re: Some questions after using Spyder3 Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by Octarine View Post
    3. You will always see sRGB since your monitor (most likely) cannot display anything else. Normally, PS will show the colours corrected by the profile. Your 'proof colours' function seems to take away the monitor profiling. Can't say much about that, I use Lightroom.
    PS doesn't show a 'calibrated photo'. What you see are the colours of the picture corrected by the profile to offset the characteristics of your display. In result you will see the colours as they are digitally encoded in the picture.

    Hi thanks for the reply!

    So does the above mean that:

    1) With proof colours OFF - PS looks up monitor ICC and adjusts the photo according to it to display the truly embedded coulours

    2) With proof colours on or in windows picture viewer - Photo is displayed with no adjustment to it. Colours are skewed due to inaccuracies of monitor.


    But shouldnt the ICC profile created by Spyder be loaded upon startup? I see the colours change slightly when the spyder software is loaded so I assumed it has loaded some kind of profile. And if so, shouldnt all my photos be adjusted accordingly when I view them in windows viewer even though the viewer does not read the monitor profile?
    D700|24-70 f2.8|50mm f1.8|105VR f2.8 Micro|28-70 f3.5-4.5|SB600|SB800

  5. #5
    Moderator ortega's Avatar
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    Default Re: Some questions after using Spyder3 Pro

    in order to have a complete CMS
    you need to have everything profiled

    monitor, camera, output device, ink, paper

    when the photos are posted on the internet, the viewer's monitor is not profiled or the profile is outdated
    so there is no guarantee that the viewer is looking at your picture the way you intended.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Some questions after using Spyder3 Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by ortega View Post
    in order to have a complete CMS
    you need to have everything profiled

    monitor, camera, output device, ink, paper

    when the photos are posted on the internet, the viewer's monitor is not profiled or the profile is outdated
    so there is no guarantee that the viewer is looking at your picture the way you intended.
    Yeah I know its not easy to have a completely colour managed system but I hope to clarify some of the doubts that have me confused.

    Am I right to say that my monitor ICC profile will only be used in ICC compliant software like photoshop? In ICC non compliant viewers, both the monitor and image ICC profile will be ignored and windows defaults to sRGB?
    D700|24-70 f2.8|50mm f1.8|105VR f2.8 Micro|28-70 f3.5-4.5|SB600|SB800

  7. #7

    Default Re: Some questions after using Spyder3 Pro

    first off, monitor colour profile (your monitor's ICC) is different from an image colour space (sRGB, Adobe RGB, etc.)... the first describes how your hardware interprets colour, the second describes the colour available for an image... your monitor would never (or at least should not, unless someone itch hand plug in sRGB for the monitor profile ) use sRGB because it is an image colour space rather than a hardware colour profile...

    your monitor profile would be applied by the software that comes with the monitor profiling hardware to work at the basic operating system level, be it Windows or OSX... its just that some software do not take into account all of the profile but that's a different story and usually not as important as the next point...

    than there is the other idea of software that is colour aware vs. those that are not (this is different from the above point, which is about the monitor profile)... so software that is not colour aware will not take into account an image's colour space and would assume that an image is sRGB...

  8. #8

    Default Re: Some questions after using Spyder3 Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by theRBK View Post
    first off, monitor colour profile (your monitor's ICC) is different from an image colour space (sRGB, Adobe RGB, etc.)... the first describes how your hardware interprets colour, the second describes the colour available for an image... your monitor would never (or at least should not, unless someone itch hand plug in sRGB for the monitor profile ) use sRGB because it is an image colour space rather than a hardware colour profile...

    your monitor profile would be applied by the software that comes with the monitor profiling hardware to work at the basic operating system level, be it Windows or OSX... its just that some software do not take into account all of the profile but that's a different story and usually not as important as the next point...

    than there is the other idea of software that is colour aware vs. those that are not (this is different from the above point, which is about the monitor profile)... so software that is not colour aware will not take into account an image's colour space and would assume that an image is sRGB...



    Hi thanks for the reply... So according to your explaination, the monitor profile should be applied at the OS level meaning everything I see (regardless of software) will be adjusted by the monitor profile? And only colour aware software will adjust based on the colour space?

    Then I should see the exact same colours for a sRGB image in photoshop and in a non-colour aware viewer rite? But I see slight difference in the 2 especially in the shadows.
    D700|24-70 f2.8|50mm f1.8|105VR f2.8 Micro|28-70 f3.5-4.5|SB600|SB800

  9. #9

    Default Re: Some questions after using Spyder3 Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by hobbes187 View Post
    Hi thanks for the reply!

    So does the above mean that:

    1) With proof colours OFF - PS looks up monitor ICC and adjusts the photo according to it to display the truly embedded coulours

    2) With proof colours on or in windows picture viewer - Photo is displayed with no adjustment to it. Colours are skewed due to inaccuracies of monitor.


    But shouldnt the ICC profile created by Spyder be loaded upon startup? I see the colours change slightly when the spyder software is loaded so I assumed it has loaded some kind of profile. And if so, shouldnt all my photos be adjusted accordingly when I view them in windows viewer even though the viewer does not read the monitor profile?

    I sense that there is perhaps a bit of confusion here with your point (2) above. I presume that you are using Photoshop's proof colours function, in which case, a separate profile is needed ie. not your monitor profile. You will need a profile for your printer/inkset/paper combination that you intend to use to print your photo. You will need a profile each for every printer/inkset/paper combination. To get this, you will need a printer profiler like Colorvision's PrintfixPro. Alternatively, some printers eg. Epson and Canon do provide free profiles for their printers/inksets for a variety of their own papers. You may also use these. From reports I have read by others about these profiles, results seem to vary. There are parties who will sell you profiles for high end printers, papers and even for 3rd party inksets.

    With the printer profile installed properly and a properly calibrate monitor, when you turn on proof colours, you should get an accurate preview on your monitor of what your photo should look like in print.

    In summary, the monitor profile that you have created using your Spyder has nothing to do with Adobe's Proof Colors except that you will need the monitor profile to have a properly calibrated monitor in the first before the Proof Colors function to can give you an accurate preview of your print using a particular printer/inkset/paper combination.

    When you mention that there is a slight change when you turn on Proof Colors, what Photoshop is doing is showing you what your photo looks like on the monitor and what it will look like if you were to print it using a particular printer/inkset/paper combination. Hope this is of some help to you. Regards.
    Last edited by Alliance; 26th November 2008 at 10:11 AM.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Some questions after using Spyder3 Pro

    Hi sorry to OT abit on your topic. but i was wondering if anybody has a good link to a website explaining all this calibration of monitors, cameras, printers and all. I want to start looking into calibrating my monitor and all.

  11. #11
    Moderator Octarine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Some questions after using Spyder3 Pro

    http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles/calibrating.htm
    Do a profiling for monitor and printer. Don't mess with camera calibration.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Some questions after using Spyder3 Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by Octarine View Post
    http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles/calibrating.htm
    Do a profiling for monitor and printer. Don't mess with camera calibration.
    I have profiles available for some of the photo labs as well as a custom service if required. Pls see Commercial Services section. Thanks.

    SQUALL.
    photography by SQUALL "Shoot with purpose....."
    www.LittlePictureShop.com

  13. #13

    Default Re: Some questions after using Spyder3 Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by Alliance View Post
    I sense that there is perhaps a bit of confusion here with your point (2) above. I presume that you are using Photoshop's proof colours function, in which case, a separate profile is needed ie. not your monitor profile. You will need a profile for your printer/inkset/paper combination that you intend to use to print your photo. You will need a profile each for every printer/inkset/paper combination. To get this, you will need a printer profiler like Colorvision's PrintfixPro. Alternatively, some printers eg. Epson and Canon do provide free profiles for their printers/inksets for a variety of their own papers. You may also use these. From reports I have read by others about these profiles, results seem to vary. There are parties who will sell you profiles for high end printers, papers and even for 3rd party inksets.

    With the printer profile installed properly and a properly calibrate monitor, when you turn on proof colours, you should get an accurate preview on your monitor of what your photo should look like in print.


    In summary, the monitor profile that you have created using your Spyder has nothing to do with Adobe's Proof Colors except that you will need the monitor profile to have a properly calibrated monitor in the first before the Proof Colors function to can give you an accurate preview of your print using a particular printer/inkset/paper combination.

    When you mention that there is a slight change when you turn on Proof Colors, what Photoshop is doing is showing you what your photo looks like on the monitor and what it will look like if you were to print it using a particular printer/inkset/paper combination. Hope this is of some help to you. Regards.

    This post is the correct answer. The difficulty is getting print profiles because the profilers are expensive. I did a set of 13 as mentioned above for five Photolabs and their different papers. If you want your printer and specific paper combination profiled, I also offer that service. Tx
    photography by SQUALL "Shoot with purpose....."
    www.LittlePictureShop.com

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