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Thread: Sex Sells - Part 2

  1. #141

    Default Re: Sex Sells - Part 2

    Do the contributors of such stories to newspapers get money? Could it be that someone is doing it for money?

  2. #142

    Default Re: Clubsnap in the news! On newpaper! Sleeze...

    Quote Originally Posted by ortega View Post
    it is a known fact that there are reporters amongst us
    so since every member makes the community, it is everyone's responsibility to look out for it. if you do not take the necessary action, then do not complain when things go wrong. I hope that everyone understands what i am trying to say.

    (btw, i do not shoot XMM)
    OK .... I am not sure if I understand you correctly on this part .... Here is my understanding and assumption .... Please correct me if I am wrong.

    #1 Know fact - Reporters are amongst CS members / users.
    #2 It is everyone's responsibility to look out for it (them / the reporters - I assume)
    #3 If you dont take the necessary action - Are we suppose to alret someone when we realise a suer is a reporter or "brand" them so that the various shoot organisers know who they are and banned them from the shoot in case they report on them? Is this what you would consider taking action ... otherwise do not complain??

    I am a little confused on that part of the statement ....

    BTW ... the article on TNP did not mention anything about shooting XMM ....
    Touch the Moments ... Hold the colours of Joy

  3. #143
    Senior Member glennyong's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sex Sells - Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Zplus View Post
    TNP seems to be running out of stories again. When is it news when 90% (my guesstimate) of the photographers visit Clubsnap???

    To put it in other words, "some photographers are into nudes which border on porn". Pick up any good photography book and one section will be on Nudes.

    Or "art school holds nude painting classes". Side story, "budding artist pay $XXX an hour".

    Its like a front page news about couples making out in cars in secluded areas.... it sells but is it anything new? Guess only works in Singapore.....

    One thing though, with the recession coming, it seems like a good advert to earn a decent $150 an hour for some budding talents....
    budding artist pay $xxx an hour...

    he need to be a very very very good artist to even try paint an image in 1hr or less den 24hrs....

    it takes skills to be an artist. me being art trained. painting and drawing nudes is wayyyyyyy different from taking pictures...

    when u draw. u learn to appreciate. unlike photography.

    take it from me as an artist. who do sketches and paintings. (for free time)

  4. #144
    Senior Member glennyong's Avatar
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    Default Re: Clubsnap in the news! On newpaper! Sleeze...

    Quote Originally Posted by Long Thai Bean View Post
    OK .... I am not sure if I understand you correctly on this part .... Here is my understanding and assumption .... Please correct me if I am wrong.

    #1 Know fact - Reporters are amongst CS members / users.
    #2 It is everyone's responsibility to look out for it (them / the reporters - I assume)
    #3 If you dont take the necessary action - Are we suppose to alret someone when we realise a suer is a reporter or "brand" them so that the various shoot organisers know who they are and banned them from the shoot in case they report on them? Is this what you would consider taking action ... otherwise do not complain??

    I am a little confused on that part of the statement ....

    BTW ... the article on TNP did not mention anything about shooting XMM ....
    theres one article about a student as a "freelance" ? same paper thou.

    #3 i dun understand.. hmmmm....

  5. #145

    Default Re: Clubsnap in the news! On newpaper! Sleeze...

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    then again, i don't think nude shots should be banned here, and i also do not think that most of the organisers care enough to see past the dollar do filter serious candidates from non-serious ones. it is really a conundrum sometimes.

    At the same time, there's nothing to stop the organisers to organise a sleaze shoot advertised otherwise.

    It's going to be a neverending cops and robbers cycle. You find new methods to police, the crooks will find innovative ways to bend the rules.

  6. #146

    Default Re: Sex Sells - Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by glennyong View Post
    budding artist pay $xxx an hour...

    he need to be a very very very good artist to even try paint an image in 1hr or less den 24hrs....

    it takes skills to be an artist. me being art trained. painting and drawing nudes is wayyyyyyy different from taking pictures...

    when u draw. u learn to appreciate. unlike photography.

    take it from me as an artist. who do sketches and paintings. (for free time)
    Are you then saying that when you take a phoography of a nude ... you do not learn to appreciate?
    Touch the Moments ... Hold the colours of Joy

  7. #147

    Default Re: Clubsnap in the news! On newpaper! Sleeze...

    Quote Originally Posted by ortega View Post
    it is a known fact that there are reporters amongst us
    so since every member makes the community, it is everyone's responsibility to look out for it. if you do not take the necessary action, then do not complain when things go wrong.
    I hope that everyone understands what i am trying to say.

    (btw, i do not shoot XMM)
    Quote Originally Posted by glennyong View Post
    #3 i dun understand.. hmmmm....
    my #3 was to seek clarification on what ortega had mention in his post ... please see highlighted statement ....

    I guess we will have to wait for him to clarify ....
    Touch the Moments ... Hold the colours of Joy

  8. #148
    Senior Member glennyong's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sex Sells - Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Long Thai Bean View Post
    Are you then saying that when you take a phoography of a nude ... you do not learn to appreciate?
    not as effective when u learn to sketch...

    u will understand what i mean when u get to sketch. the atmosphere to sketch is different. den taking photographs of instant gratification

    correct me if i am wrong. but definitely. sketching/drawing is totally different forms of art compared to photography.

    u learn to appreciate the art form of a human body because u understand what is aesthetics and what makes a sketch looks good, rather than instant shot and preview.

    my 2 cents.

    many can self-proclaim they shoot art.. but they know nothing about art...

    u should try sketching nude. its totally different.

  9. #149

    Default Re: Clubsnap in the news! On newpaper! Sleeze...

    Quote Originally Posted by drakon09 View Post
    At the same time, there's nothing to stop the organisers to organise a sleaze shoot advertised otherwise.

    It's going to be a neverending cops and robbers cycle. You find new methods to police, the crooks will find innovative ways to bend the rules.
    but shouldn't we try?

  10. #150
    Senior Member glennyong's Avatar
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    Default Re: Clubsnap in the news! On newpaper! Sleeze...

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    but shouldn't we try?
    try to what ?

    would love to hear about it. PM me ?

  11. #151

    Default Re: Sex Sells - Part 2

    I'm more concerned with the wider ramifactions of the article:

    What we know, is that tnp tends to sensationalize news; but the clueless general public tends to take news at face value. It is not such a large step, given the lack of knowledge, from nude photoshoots and 'pervographers' to generalizing that the vast majority of totally legit photographers are also perverts. In light of this bad rep, it is possible that photographers carrying cameras walking the streets may soon be assumed to be opportunistic predators trying to sneak off a few lewd shots of passers-by. We may see an increased paranoia regarding photography in general (,street photography in particular). This is alarming as we don't want sgp to be as photographer unfriendly as some Western countries, where photogs get harassed by anxious parents for simply carrying a camera near their children.

    This article is probably more serious than past instances of bad rep (in this respect) because it capitalizes on peoples' fear of being photographed unknowingly and having the pictures used in less than glamorous manners. It may be just one article, but sensational news tends to spread like wild fire through word of mouth - the truth getting increasingly distorted as it goes along.

    In my view, since CS was explicitly mentioned in the article, we need to do some damage control, maybe prepare a press release explaining how what we do here, or something.
    Last edited by astrise; 24th November 2008 at 12:31 AM. Reason: grammar, typesetting

  12. #152
    Senior Member glennyong's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sex Sells - Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by astrise View Post
    I'm more concerned with the wider ramifactions of the article:

    What we know, is that tnp tends to sensationalize news; but the clueless general public tends to take news at face value. It is not such a large step, given the lack of knowledge, from nude photoshoots and 'pervographers' to generalizing that the vast majority of totally legit photographers are also perverts. In light of this bad rep, it is possible that photographers carrying cameras walking the streets may soon be assumed to be opportunistic predators trying to sneak off a few lewd shots of passers-by. We may see an increased paranoia regarding photography in general (,street photography in particular). This is alarming as we don't want sgp to be as photographer unfriendly as some Western countries, where photogs get harassed by anxious parents for simply carrying a camera near their children.

    This article is probably more serious than past instances of bad rep (in this respect) because it capitalizes on peoples' fear of being photographed unknowingly and having the pictures used in less than glamorous manners. It may be just one article, but sensational news tends to spread like wild fire through word of mouth - the truth getting increasingly distorted as it goes along.

    In my view, since CS was explicitly mentioned in the article, we need to do some damage control, maybe prepare a press release explaining how what we do here, or something.
    hmmm u have a point here....

  13. #153

    Default Re: Sex Sells - Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by glennyong View Post
    not as effective when u learn to sketch...

    u will understand what i mean when u get to sketch. the atmosphere to sketch is different. den taking photographs of instant gratification

    correct me if i am wrong. but definitely. sketching/drawing is totally different forms of art compared to photography.

    u learn to appreciate the art form of a human body because u understand what is aesthetics and what makes a sketch looks good, rather than instant shot and preview.

    my 2 cents.

    many can self-proclaim they shoot art.. but they know nothing about art...

    u should try sketching nude. its totally different.
    I had this conversation with my sister last month. She paints nudes and I photograph nudes, and she tells me the same thing. Well i can't draw for nuts so that's why i take photos. Yes it's totally different. but I won't go as far to say one is better than the other.

  14. #154
    Senior Member wranger's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sex Sells - Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by glennyong View Post
    because questions are repeated, over and over again, they got sick of answering, so they sit back and let others do the answering.

    and we have some amatuers with who are extremely egoistic. so. full timers / pros will just sit back and enjoy the show, and not bother to waste time here.

    so from interacting and making new friends, they would rather spend time thinking how to shoot better, deliver better, and of course.... be happy rather den contribute and some egoistic wannabe come and shoot his comment / contribution down.
    Well said
    UK HMS Photojournalist

  15. #155
    Member TheQuestion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sex Sells - Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by astrise View Post
    I'm more concerned with the wider ramifactions of the article:

    What we know, is that tnp tends to sensationalize news; but the clueless general public tends to take news at face value. It is not such a large step, given the lack of knowledge, from nude photoshoots and 'pervographers' to generalizing that the vast majority of totally legit photographers are also perverts. In light of this bad rep, it is possible that photographers carrying cameras walking the streets may soon be assumed to be opportunistic predators trying to sneak off a few lewd shots of passers-by. We may see an increased paranoia regarding photography in general (,street photography in particular). This is alarming as we don't want sgp to be as photographer unfriendly as some Western countries, where photogs get harassed by anxious parents for simply carrying a camera near their children.

    This article is probably more serious than past instances of bad rep (in this respect) because it capitalizes on peoples' fear of being photographed unknowingly and having the pictures used in less than glamorous manners. It may be just one article, but sensational news tends to spread like wild fire through word of mouth - the truth getting increasingly distorted as it goes along.

    In my view, since CS was explicitly mentioned in the article, we need to do some damage control, maybe prepare a press release explaining how what we do here, or something.
    press release?! please la u dun do anything wrong got nothing to fear. responding to tnp's bs is just giving them credence.
    Opinions are like A-holes. Everyone's got one.

  16. #156

    Default Re: Sex Sells - Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by glennyong View Post
    not as effective when u learn to sketch...

    u will understand what i mean when u get to sketch. the atmosphere to sketch is different. den taking photographs of instant gratification

    correct me if i am wrong. but definitely. sketching/drawing is totally different forms of art compared to photography.

    u learn to appreciate the art form of a human body because u understand what is aesthetics and what makes a sketch looks good, rather than instant shot and preview.

    my 2 cents.

    many can self-proclaim they shoot art.. but they know nothing about art...

    u should try sketching nude. its totally different.
    I agree that sketching and drawing is totally different forms of art to photography ... and as such ... I cannot agree that one form of art makes you appreciate the nude body form more than the other ... instant gratification of a shoot and preview or not.

    That too is my 2 cents ....

    Try to do nude sketching ... And risk getting my photo splashed across some tabloid newspsper just because some reporter decides to pretend to be an art student ...

    Nah i don't think so ....
    Touch the Moments ... Hold the colours of Joy

  17. #157

    Default Re: Clubsnap in the news! On newpaper! Sleeze...

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    but shouldn't we try?
    *mod mode off*

    nightmare, I'm an advocate of permanent solutions; and it's one of two ways, one - educate to change attitudes (which is next to impossible), two - to kill all organised model shoots altogether (which makes no damn difference to me - I don't do posed people).

    Banning just the nudes or lingerie or bikini or give-half-ball shoots won't work in the long run - eventually organisers will just find ways of disguising and packaging the sleaze shoots as decent ones, or as reported on the TNP - turned into a nude shoot on the egging of photographers.


    *mod mode on*

    I don't own ClubSnap, so other than my feedback, it's not within my authority to do anything else.

    But we love to hear whatever solutions that you, and the rest of the community can come up with; perhaps with community-policing the situation will be better.

  18. #158

    Default Re: Sex Sells - Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by TheQuestion View Post
    press release?! please la u dun do anything wrong got nothing to fear. responding to tnp's bs is just giving them credence.
    I think we should not be concerned about how a few of our members can give us a bad name, but how we as a community give photography in sgp a bad name. See the bigger picture - I don't know how big an issue this is outside the photographic community, but there's bound to be more people questioning the rights of photographers to 'take pictures of whatever, wherever and whenever they please'. If you think paranoia is far fetched, remember:

    1) Sex, parents, and kids are a volatile mix.
    2) Protective parents (it's only natural, isn't it?) acting on irrational fears are a very nasty bunch. [If you need further justification of this just look at all the parents watch groups in the West and their fanatical campaigns. ]

    From a PR standpoint, we need some seriousss damage control

  19. #159

    Default Re: Sex Sells - Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by TheQuestion View Post
    press release?! please la u dun do anything wrong got nothing to fear. responding to tnp's bs is just giving them credence.
    Totally agree .... Press Release to TNP in response to a sensational article that they have written ???

    So what are we going to say ... Its not as if they do not already know CS, what we are and what we do ... Shall we invite their staff photographers to one of our pure and naive XMM shoots to prove to them there is nothing wrong here as well ...
    Touch the Moments ... Hold the colours of Joy

  20. #160

    Default Re: Sex Sells - Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Long Thai Bean View Post
    Totally agree .... Press Release to TNP in response to a sensational article that they have written ???

    So what are we going to say ... Its not as if they do not already know CS, what we are and what we do ... Shall we invite their staff photographers to one of our pure and naive XMM shoots to prove to them there is nothing wrong here as well ...

    I wouldn't be surprised if there were TNP staff already attending these XMM lingerie/bikini/nudes on a regular basis!

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