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Thread: Sex Sells - Part 2

  1. #181

    Default Re: Sex Sells - Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Rashkae View Post
    I don't think credibility or standards has anything to do with it. More like being able to pay the advertising fee.
    Yes, so we keep the advertising fee and we also have a set of guidelines and quality control to offer.
    Photoshoot organisers should have a PHYSICAL interaction with the admin, perhaps an short interview process of sorts.
    As mentioned, a physical meeting adds a different dimension in the interactions between people.

    This will cause a certain level of red tape, and there might be a need to raise fees in some way, however, with added credibility and quality control, photographers who want to sign up for a shoot are comforted by a certain level of quality control.

    Most of us are working adults and our time is very precious (weekends are usually the main free time we have), so organisers charging $20 more in exchange for an assurance of standards is a worthwhile tradeoff.

  2. #182

    Default Re: Sex Sells - Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by mattlock View Post
    This will cause a certain level of red tape, and there might be a need to raise fees in some way, however, with added credibility and quality control, photographers who want to sign up for a shoot are comforted by a certain level of quality control.

    Most of us are working adults and our time is very precious (weekends are usually the main free time we have), so organisers charging $20 more in exchange for an assurance of standards is a worthwhile tradeoff.
    this is a good idea

    not easy to implement, but like i've said, it depends on how much one wishes to care

  3. #183

    Default Re: Sex Sells - Part 2

    i think issuing a PR letter is merely providing fodder for TNP to further push their cause. i dont think the newspaper will turn around on what its written today, it has to stand by what it says right? and if i'm not wrong, the weekend New Paper and the weekday New Paper that we read have two editorial teams working on it, so if anything at all, CS's response will probably only come next weekend. i think.

    and yes, with posts like this http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=440062, i'm sure we are staving off the horny *******s GWC types. thread was posted 3h ago, i wont be surprised if its an escort agency looking for side jobs for their girls, after all its still money.

    Quote Originally Posted by zero o View Post
    We should highlight to TNP the real CS, a place where photo enthusiasts gather not only to shoot but also to discuss equipment, to learn from one another and perhaps even to highlight achievements of individual CS members. Lets not forget the many times CS has organized photoshoots to raise money for disaster relief. CS is a net based community of photog enthusiasts.
    good post, but what makes you think that they havent been stalking this place for ages alr. i'm sure they know fully well whats going on and what has been going on here. its very easy for them to quote this line (if it appears in the press release) and turn around and jack the hell out of you.

    case in point: In a press release issued by Clubsnap yesterday, spokesman Tan Ah Kow wished to emphasize to the public that nude photography only appeals to 'a small niche audience within the forum'. A check done by TNP, HOWEVER, found that 1233546 threads with the word 'nude' in them and they had, at press time, garnered 72938579875 views.'

    sorry if my journ writing isnt that fab.

  4. #184
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    Default Re: Sex Sells - Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Zplus View Post
    TNP seems to be running out of stories again. When is it news when 90% (my guesstimate) of the photographers visit Clubsnap???

    To put it in other words, "some photographers are into nudes which border on porn". Pick up any good photography book and one section will be on Nudes.

    Or "art school holds nude painting classes". Side story, "budding artist pay $XXX an hour".

    Its like a front page news about couples making out in cars in secluded areas.... it sells but is it anything new? Guess only works in Singapore.....

    One thing though, with the recession coming, it seems like a good advert to earn a decent $150 an hour for some budding talents....
    There is nothing wrong with nude portraiture.

    The crux of the matter is the behavior of certain people and how they have brought certain genres into disrepute.
    We live in an age when unnecessary things are our only necessities. - Oscar Wilde

  5. #185
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    Default Re: Sex Sells - Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by mattlock View Post
    Yes, so we keep the advertising fee and we also have a set of guidelines and quality control to offer.
    Photoshoot organisers should have a PHYSICAL interaction with the admin, perhaps an short interview process of sorts.
    As mentioned, a physical meeting adds a different dimension in the interactions between people.

    This will cause a certain level of red tape, and there might be a need to raise fees in some way, however, with added credibility and quality control, photographers who want to sign up for a shoot are comforted by a certain level of quality control.

    Most of us are working adults and our time is very precious (weekends are usually the main free time we have), so organisers charging $20 more in exchange for an assurance of standards is a worthwhile tradeoff.
    lmao pipe dream.
    Opinions are like A-holes. Everyone's got one.

  6. #186

    Default Re: Sex Sells - Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by TheQuestion View Post
    lmao pipe dream.
    Why the negativity? This sort of reply is really not helpful.and it's not as difficult as you think it is.

  7. #187
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    Default Re: Clubsnap in the news! On newpaper! Sleeze...

    Quote Originally Posted by mattlock View Post
    A few points.

    The New Paper is just spinning a story that was waiting to happen.
    We've highlighted the "sleazy" aspect of all this awhile back (in the appropriate threads).

    It is no solution to try to blacklist reporters. They are doing their job and honestly The New Paper is pretty tame.

    I would actually advocate that the admin cut to the root of the issue, which is the suppliers.
    The admin of Clubsnap should be discerning and have a set of standards as to the organisers of photoshoots. A stamp of approval of sorts, to weed out the organisers who are less credible.

    This will also ensure a higher standard of photoshoots, and help to improve the standard of photography that is produced.

    Now let me make it clear, I am not against nude/sexy photoshoots. But there's a difference between a sexy photoshoot and a outing solely to ogle at women.
    We have some talented shooters here who do a good job making girls look sexy (flipfreak for one)
    They should be able to take their photos without having to deal with the perception of being perverts as articles such as these seem.

    If the admin of Clubsnap is tolerant of sexy photoshoots, then they should have a set of standards which they can stand behind and respond to brickbats regarding the issue of sleaze. This will also help the community that supports Clubsnap to have a healthy conscience of sorts in regards to such issues.

    My argument here might come across as a slight contradiction of points but hopefully the main jist goes through

    Finally, I am proud of this community and most of the people I've met from here are lovely people, so I hope we can move forward together to develop this community.
    Quote Originally Posted by mattlock View Post
    If we have organisers who are dedicated to the artform that they are offering and not just opportunistically appealing to the lowest common denominator of sex, chances are they would be longer term, have a larger stake in the business and be more responsible.

    If you regulate the suppliers, and make them more responsible to the admin then they have an incentive to maintain higher standards to keep their earnings coming in. This will also cause the "demand" to move to the forums which offer the more sleazy shoots.

    Also, this is off topic but we should consider pushing this community closer together by having some sort of physical presence instead of maintaining everything online.

    This could take the form of an exhibition of some of the photos we take. This will help in the education of the public and will give more legitimacy to this forum.
    I believe in education, it's a long drawn process but it works.
    +1

    ii cant agree more on the points u mentioned. the end of the day its up to the admins to want to do something about this issue.

    this issue was raised before, a bottom up effort at that. but its up to those at the top (in CS) to do something about it.

  8. #188
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    Default Re: Sex Sells - Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by mattlock View Post
    Why the negativity? This sort of reply is really not helpful.and it's not as difficult as you think it is.
    i'm not being negative i'm being realistic here. you make it sound like the organizers here care about anything else but making money or that the admin of the site have nothing except for CS in their lives to go out and screen photo shoot organizers. You're being waaaay too idealistic. Besides your yum yum comments in the GWC thread here: http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showp...9&postcount=23 is just adding to the negative image that TNP has painted of this place. Not to mention the cheap quote you're giving them to quote you out of context to worsen CS' image. I respect you as an artist and photographer but idealism without temperance of realism isn't gonna fix things...
    Opinions are like A-holes. Everyone's got one.

  9. #189
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    Default Re: Sex Sells - Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by TheQuestion View Post
    lmao pipe dream.
    sometimes pipe dream do become reality, with low cost digital photography (& the privacy of not needing to send film for developing), XMM photography is a dream come true.

  10. #190
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    Exclamation Re: Sex Sells - Part 2

    After much discussion amongst the Admin/Mod team (and yeah, you can all whack us now for the slow response which has led to this unfortunate event), here are the steps that will be taken with immediate effect :-

    • We will put in place a new policy to disallow marketing/advertising of nude photoshoots in the PhotoShoots section. We note that there is a grey area under local Singaporean law regarding publication and distribution of images/videos taken during such shoots and we do not wish to "push the envelope" at this current point in time to test the limits of said laws.
    • Existing shoots of such nature will be deleted and we will liaise with the Organiser on reimbursement of their subscriptions.
    • We will complete the forms-based method of posting into the PhotoShoots section to standardise the thread titling (as promised in Episode 1 of Sex Sells..) and to "tone down" the excessive perceived sleaziness of said threads.


    We will be monitoring the PhotoShoots section more closely for the time being, and will remove/suspend shoots which we feel are bordering on the edge of decency or are pushing too much out of the limits of what should be allowed.

    Thus, our main aims of this exercise are to :-
    a) Halt and/or reverse the perception that ClubSNAP is a sleazy site.
    b) Restore some sense of pride into ClubSNAP as a community which, as some have voiced, seems to have taken a back seat in recent years, partly due to the growth of the community and partly also because of lack of attention from the Admins/Mods in that regard.

    As always, while we can set down the boundaries and guidelines, we will continue to rely on members to also help us steer the community in the right general direction and we trust that this will set us back on the right path. We are in this together.

    At the end of the day, nude (artistic, sleazy, pornographic or otherwise) is also a legitimate genre of photography, and by curbing this outlet, we do not want to be seen as stifling the growth of the local photography community. If/when social mores mature and stigmas are removed, perhaps we can revisit this in future.

    Please note that discussions about nude photography are still allowed (with threads to be appropriately titled and images hot-linked, not directly embedded), we are only banning the organisation of nude photoshoots.

    Thank you to all members for their very vocal feedback, and we apologise for our slow response to the previous thread which has led to this.

  11. #191

    Default Re: Sex Sells - Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by pfurr View Post
    i think issuing a PR letter is merely providing fodder for TNP to further push their cause. i dont think the newspaper will turn around on what its written today, it has to stand by what it says right? and if i'm not wrong, the weekend New Paper and the weekday New Paper that we read have two editorial teams working on it, so if anything at all, CS's response will probably only come next weekend. i think.

    and yes, with posts like this http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=440062, i'm sure we are staving off the horny *******s GWC types. thread was posted 3h ago, i wont be surprised if its an escort agency looking for side jobs for their girls, after all its still money.



    good post, but what makes you think that they havent been stalking this place for ages alr. i'm sure they know fully well whats going on and what has been going on here. its very easy for them to quote this line (if it appears in the press release) and turn around and jack the hell out of you.

    case in point: In a press release issued by Clubsnap yesterday, spokesman Tan Ah Kow wished to emphasize to the public that nude photography only appeals to 'a small niche audience within the forum'. A check done by TNP, HOWEVER, found that 1233546 threads with the word 'nude' in them and they had, at press time, garnered 72938579875 views.'

    sorry if my journ writing isnt that fab.

    Relevant points brought up. Drafting a PR letter and sending it off to TNP does no justice to the situation. What i was alluding to is for CS to somehow get TNP to do a piece on CS. What is needed is a measured and appropriate response with proper facts and statistics. I have a suspicion that if we look at "nude" postings, it will only be a small % to the total postings in CS. Breaking it down further, nude postings could well be classified as artistic or lewd. Again, highlight the fact that the postings are artistic and not lewd. And so on and so forth. Like u said, it is easy for them "to turn things around and jack the hell out of you" .. yes .. if u are unprepared and do not have the facts at your fingertips. There are always 2 sides to a story.

    Singapore over the years have become progressive. One time, a lot of movies cannot be shown in cinemas because they contain adult oriented themes or they contain objectionable scenes. Liberalization came and now we have different classifications of movies. Thats progress. At one time, public performances were highly regulated , but i suspect of late, since Singapore is trying to promote arts and artistic meritocracy, the rules have been relaxed somewhat and u get theater performances with more mature content. At one time we were very guarded against gambling hence no casino. But now we have 2 coming up. Times change, mindsets change, society evolves.

    Photographing "artistic" nude can be part of this revolution. It has been happening for years in the West. (caveat : i dont shoot xmm & portraiture so i am not speaking as an interested party) In similar light, CS is just evolving with the times .. we are progressive. We are a tolerant community that understands the evolution of photography - which is transitioning from just image capture to art form. Singaporeans are taking part in this evolution. It just so happens that some of these photogs are CS member. If CS does decide to set things right, some of these can be used .....

    So much for my Monday rantings ... have a good day all

  12. #192
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    Default Re: Sex Sells - Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Darren View Post
    After much discussion amongst the Admin/Mod team (and yeah, you can all whack us now for the slow response which has led to this unfortunate event), here are the steps that will be taken with immediate effect :-

    • We will put in place a new policy to disallow marketing/advertising of nude photoshoots in the PhotoShoots section. We note that there is a grey area under local Singaporean law regarding publication and distribution of images/videos taken during such shoots and we do not wish to "push the envelope" at this current point in time to test the limits of said laws.
    • Existing shoots of such nature will be deleted and we will liaise with the Organiser on reimbursement of their subscriptions.
    • We will complete the forms-based method of posting into the PhotoShoots section to standardise the thread titling (as promised in Episode 1 of Sex Sells..) and to "tone down" the excessive perceived sleaziness of said threads.


    We will be monitoring the PhotoShoots section more closely for the time being, and will remove/suspend shoots which we feel are bordering on the edge of decency or are pushing too much out of the limits of what should be allowed.

    Thus, our main aims of this exercise are to :-
    a) Halt and/or reverse the perception that ClubSNAP is a sleazy site.
    b) Restore some sense of pride into ClubSNAP as a community which, as some have voiced, seems to have taken a back seat in recent years, partly due to the growth of the community and partly also because of lack of attention from the Admins/Mods in that regard.

    As always, while we can set down the boundaries and guidelines, we will continue to rely on members to also help us steer the community in the right general direction and we trust that this will set us back on the right path. We are in this together.

    At the end of the day, nude (artistic, sleazy, pornographic or otherwise) is also a legitimate genre of photography, and by curbing this outlet, we do not want to be seen as stifling the growth of the local photography community. If/when social mores mature and stigmas are removed, perhaps we can revisit this in future.

    Please note that discussions about nude photography are still allowed (with threads to be appropriately titled and images hot-linked, not directly embedded), we are only banning the organisation of nude photoshoots.

    Thank you to all members for their very vocal feedback, and we apologise for our slow response to the previous thread which has led to this.
    errr wouldn't removing the nude offerings end up giving a boost to Sboy forums? might be ok to leave them here but urge the photogs who go for these to behave themselves since the expose also seems to mention photogs behavior as well.
    Opinions are like A-holes. Everyone's got one.

  13. #193
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    Default Re: Sex Sells - Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by zero o View Post
    Relevant points brought up. Drafting a PR letter and sending it off to TNP does no justice to the situation. What i was alluding to is for CS to somehow get TNP to do a piece on CS. What is needed is a measured and appropriate response with proper facts and statistics. I have a suspicion that if we look at "nude" postings, it will only be a small % to the total postings in CS. Breaking it down further, nude postings could well be classified as artistic or lewd. Again, highlight the fact that the postings are artistic and not lewd. And so on and so forth. Like u said, it is easy for them "to turn things around and jack the hell out of you" .. yes .. if u are unprepared and do not have the facts at your fingertips. There are always 2 sides to a story.

    Singapore over the years have become progressive. One time, a lot of movies cannot be shown in cinemas because they contain adult oriented themes or they contain objectionable scenes. Liberalization came and now we have different classifications of movies. Thats progress. At one time, public performances were highly regulated , but i suspect of late, since Singapore is trying to promote arts and artistic meritocracy, the rules have been relaxed somewhat and u get theater performances with more mature content. At one time we were very guarded against gambling hence no casino. But now we have 2 coming up. Times change, mindsets change, society evolves.

    Photographing "artistic" nude can be part of this revolution. It has been happening for years in the West. (caveat : i dont shoot xmm & portraiture so i am not speaking as an interested party) In similar light, CS is just evolving with the times .. we are progressive. We are a tolerant community that understands the evolution of photography - which is transitioning from just image capture to art form. Singaporeans are taking part in this evolution. It just so happens that some of these photogs are CS member. If CS does decide to set things right, some of these can be used .....

    So much for my Monday rantings ... have a good day all
    that's the thing tnp is not interested in providing fair and balanced coverage. only what is sensational. no point bothering to engage them.
    Opinions are like A-holes. Everyone's got one.

  14. #194

    Default Re: Sex Sells - Part 2

    if need be...maybe arranging to have one of my TNP reporter fren to chit-chat with u mod-guys/gals?
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  15. #195
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    Default Re: Sex Sells - Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Wibblo View Post
    if need be...maybe arranging to have one of my TNP reporter fren to chit-chat with u mod-guys/gals?
    your fren will provide a fair and balanced story meh?
    Opinions are like A-holes. Everyone's got one.

  16. #196

    Default Re: Sex Sells - Part 2

    she has always been fair in her reports loh...unlike the younger reporters....

    but I do believe CS mods/owners also have their own contacts there.....
    Last edited by Wibblo; 24th November 2008 at 11:52 AM.
    Nikon D300s, 50mm, 18-105mm, Sigma 30mm F1.4, Sigma 50-150mm F2.8, Samyang 8mm F3.5

  17. #197

    Default Re: Sex Sells - Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by TheQuestion View Post
    your fren will provide a fair and balanced story meh?
    well, at least wibblo has offered to organize a meeting. Thats a step forward in trying to sort this thing out. What will transpire at the meeting or the final outcome, no one knows. We shouldnt be so negative

  18. #198
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    Default Re: Sex Sells - Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Wibblo View Post
    she has always been fair in her reports loh...unlike the younger reporters....

    but I do believe CS mods/owners also have their own contacts there.....
    good for your friend but i think its just better not to give tnp credence and bother to redress that article.
    Opinions are like A-holes. Everyone's got one.

  19. #199
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    Default Re: Sex Sells - Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by zero o View Post
    well, at least wibblo has offered to organize a meeting. Thats a step forward in trying to sort this thing out. What will transpire at the meeting or the final outcome, no one knows. We shouldnt be so negative
    not being negative la but u should look at the situation objectively and assess it. if you know tnp's history u will know that they've always sensationalized their stories. Do you honestly think meeting with CS reps is gonna make them retract the stuff they brought up in that expose? and say o they were wrong CS is a wonderful place etc?
    Opinions are like A-holes. Everyone's got one.

  20. #200

    Default Re: Sex Sells - Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by TheQuestion View Post
    good for your friend but i think its just better not to give tnp credence and bother to redress that article.
    there are some reporters in that stable....who cheong and don't care type one...they tend to disrupt well-built relationships...

    my statement also address some of TheQuestion's post above mine...

    however, in meeting them...is not to "Do you honestly think meeting with CS reps is gonna make them retract the stuff they brought up in that expose? and say o they were wrong CS is a wonderful place etc?" but at least update on the new measures CS is adopting for the good of the community...
    Last edited by Wibblo; 24th November 2008 at 12:00 PM.
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