Need help on buying vintage cameras!

mlqhdlqe · 19th November 2008

Hello, I don't know if this is the right section for my thread...

But I'm really interested in photography, especially vintage cameras. I'm really a noob at this but I really would like to get one vintage camera. I do not know what, exactly, do I want. Like, can someone tell me the difference between Holgas and Fisheyes and all the other vintage cameras? Very ma fan, I know..

But I really want a camera that's suitable for a newbie. It should be easy to use lah, because I get confused easily. Also, I want those 'automatic' types, no need to set shutter speed or ISO or whatever on my own de.

Sorry for being sooooooo super noob. I must be the first person in ClubSnap to post this type of thread. Sorry ):

Thanks!

frametology · 19th November 2008

As defined by wikipedia,

"Lomography is the commercial trademark of Lomographische AG, Austria for products and services related to photography. The name is inspired by the former state-run optics manufacturer LOMO PLC of Saint Petersburg, Russia. LOMO PLC created and produced the 35 mm LOMO LC-A Compact Automat camera - which became the centerpiece of Lomography's marketing and sales activities. This camera was loosely based upon the Cosina CX-1 and introduced in the early 1980s.

In 1991, the Austrian founders of Lomography discovered the Lomo LC-A.[1] As the company states, they were "charmed by the unique, colorful, and sometimes blurry" images that the camera produced. After a series of international art exhibitions and aggressive marketing work, Lomography signed an exclusive distribution agreement with LOMO PLC - thereby becoming the sole distributor of all Lomo LC-A cameras outside of the Soviet Union. This monopolistic agreement, their viral/tribal marketing strategies and pricing philosophy have generated controversy.

Lomography emphasizes casual, snapshot photography. Characteristics such as over-saturated colors, off-kilter exposure, blurring, "happy accidents," and alternative film processing are often considered part of the "Lomographic Technique."[citation needed] Users are encouraged to take a lighthearted approach to their photography, and use these techniques to document everyday life, as the Lomo LC-A's small size, simple controls, and ability to shoot in low light encourages candid photography, photo reportage, and photo vérité through the much-touted "10 Rules."

fisheye lenses basically give you shots that cover a very large angle. the fisheye uses 135mm film. fisheye cameras realated to lomo give you shots as such:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/true2death/127002630/
the rounded edges, and distortion are characteristics of the fisheye.

holgas date back to the 80s where they were made with the intention of providing an inexpensive mass-market camera for working-class Chinese in order to record family portraits and events. it was known as "hao guang" (literally good light in chinese). some ang mohs thought that the holga produced funky photos, and viola! it became a hit 'lomo' cam, though i don't count it as an authentic lomo cam as it isn't made by lomography (someone please correct me if i'm wrong) oh, the normal holga uses 120mm film. it's different from film you find in neighbour hood camera shops (those are 135mm film) pictures by the holga:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/microabi/1416775469/

vintage cameras are old old old cameras, probably from the 50s and before. you can find them on ebay. search under the brand agfa or rolleicord or just VINTAGE. you'll yield lots of results. but i'd advise you not to buy anything from there just yet. you probably don't know what and what not to look for. so if you can, just get something from someone in CS. prices may be a bit higher, but hey, if anything screws up, you can at least find the person! HAHAHA.

should you really want to get a lomo-ish cam, i would suggest a LCA (but it's quite expensive around 300) or an olympus XA2 (quite a few around, i have one too, just in case you're interested. ha.) these cameras are very simple point and shoot cams. they work almost like a normal digi cam. very fun and interesting to use. you never know what's really going to come out.

if you're into lomo because of the funky colours, i must warn you first. the camera doesn't really make the difference. it's the film that gives you the saturated and funky colours. use slide film and cross-process it, (google x-process and you'll know what i mean)

hope this helps you a bit.

Rangefinder_fan · 19th November 2008

Most vintage cameras are not exactly 'automatic', so you'd either need to get hold of a light meter or learn 'sunny-f16' rule.
And please do not confuse 'vintage' with products from the Lomo family.
They arent even from the same village.

frametology · 19th November 2008

Originally Posted by Rangefinder_fan

They arent even from the same village.

really hard to say that they aren't (from the same village) when the lomography site sells lubitels. i guess the site is damn misleading lah. it sells a lot of non-lomo products, but 'claims' them as their own. like feds, they're pretty vintage and also sold on lomography.com

see, lomo is actually bad. they're a money sucking movement. HAHAHA.

azzurri · 19th November 2008

I do not think that there are that many vintage cameras out there that have an in built light meter, so you are most likely (as mentioned by Rangefinder_fan) need to use a handheld light meter or the Sunny 16 rule.

Even in the event that they do have the an in built light meter, you are probably looking at the selenium ones. Given the age of these cameras, these are likely to be not that accurate now (or even accurate).

You may have also problems finding batteries for the light meters as many of the earlier cameras use those pesky mercury cells. Of course, there are substitutes for these batteries but you may need to modify it a little.

Another problem is finding a good or working condition camera. Due to age, a lot of these cameras have sticky shutter blades that throw the exposure off.

Finding the film may be another issue as there are a number (especially Kodak) that do not use the 120 or 135 film.

Going by your needs, you may want to find a copy of the Olympus Trip 35. It is cheap and has auto exposure. That is if you consider a camera made from around the late 60s right through to the late 80s vintage.
nothing else.

If you are getting them to look old school or something, just go for the later models of the Fed or Zorki. Depending on your budget, some of the Zeiss and Voigtlander are also worth considering.

You can also look at the TLRs like the Yashica and Mamiya. Rolleicord and Rolleiflex are also not too bad. Wait, Rolleiflex is just awesome.

rewols · 19th November 2008

do you really want a vintage camera? as the replies before me have pointed out, most vintage cameras are not exactly the best fool-proof cameras for a newbie. a great number of them does require some understanding of the fundamentals. sure, to use them (as in turn on camera, hit shutter) will be easy enough, but to use them to the effect of producing pictures that you want is another thing. a limited range of camera features/functions does not necessarily equate ease of use. less confusing, for sure (which i guess is a positive), because there are fewer knobs to tinkle with, but if you have a certain idea of how you want your photographs to turn out, it will be trickier and more difficult to find a way to work around the limited capabilities of the cameras in the long run (though, i've to say that you shouldn't get a have-everything camera too - but that's probably worth another thread).

are you interested in photography, or in vintage cameras? (if i sound less than kind, it isn't my intention) not to say that they are mutually exclusive, but it helps to understand if you are more interested in the medium or the equipment at this current stage. if the former (and all previously mentioned factors considered), i'll actually suggest you buying one of those compact point-and-shoots (not necessarily vintage. in fact, the 'modern' ones will have auto features and are really easy to use), usually going for a song at cash converters, and from there, learn what's working and what's not for you and maybe get another camera. i cannot really understand (well, i can read them, i just don't like them) the price tags on some of the "lomo" cameras, so unless you have cash to burn, don't get one. even if you do have cash to burn, don't burn it there. instead, burn more film.

if you're more interested in the equipment, by all means get a vintage camera. ebay and the classifieds here are good places to look. the already-suggested olympus trip 35 and the olympus xa2 are both great cameras. however, if your interest is geared more towards the cameras, i will suggest that you read up on photography so you will understand the different features on each camera and why a certain camera is more ___________ (insert your own preference) than another.

other places to look:
http://www.photoethnography.com/equipment.html
http://www.kyphoto.com/classics/cameras.html
http://mattdentonphoto.com/cameras/index.html

Rangefinder_fan · 20th November 2008

I guess if some of us sound slightly less tha encouraging about picking up a vintage camera is that beginner's luck will only take you so far. Sooner or later, due to the limitations of vintage kit (no meter, no battery for meter, meter telling you the wrong things, dried gunk on shutter blades etc etc), you'll walk out of fotohub feeling very irritated as to why your camera does not 'just work'.
Anything older, including cars, women and cameras, need just a bit more effort to sort out, so buying a manual vintage camera will be the easiest part of the whole process.
Also, google is your friend. There are heaps of online resources out there with pictures, user feedback, comments etc.

frametology · 20th November 2008

honestly, i think you should start with a SLR or DSLR before moving to toy cameras (such as lomos, vintage, pinholes etc)

the simple reason being, you need fundamentals when it comes to photography. it's very important that you know what affects your final output. and because you're now playing with film, there's really very little that you can do after the shot is captured.

digital makes a photographer lazy before the capture, and busy after the shutter fires. film, quite possibly the other way around.

if you ask me, toy cams are only fun when you know how to shoot (with proper knowledge). i for one bought my fisheye 2 immediately after i got my DSLR. the first roll i put in was total crap, why? simply because, i lacked photography knowledge.

as much as lomo proclaims and swears by it's 10 rubbish rules (which i think are great, when you know what you're doing) you can't do it when you're a noob (pardon me). you'll probably end up with shots that look nowhere near what others are doing, and yes, you'll be disappointed. the 10 rules portion only comes in when you're so experienced and confident with cameras, that you can, don't think just shoot.

so spare yourself the heart break, do things progressively. learn to walk before you fly!

PS. i hope i don't sound too curt.

frametology · 20th November 2008

Originally Posted by Rangefinder_fan

Anything older, including cars, women and cameras, need just a bit more effort to sort out

HAHAHA. WOMEN. hmmm, don't they age like wine?

Rangefinder_fan · 20th November 2008

Of course the other key reason is that if you're not looking for vintage cameras, then there will be one less person to outbid for that nice Rollei tlr etc... haha

mlqhdlqe · 20th November 2008

Hey everybody. Thanks for all the advice! I guess I really need to research before jumping right into it. Hope that I can post some photos up here next time, when I've decided that I'm quite 'ready' for photography!

Thanks everyone again! I really have learnt quite alot from the websites that some of y'all provided (:

19th November 2008	#1
mlqhdlqe New Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 5	Need help on buying vintage cameras! Hello, I don't know if this is the right section for my thread... But I'm really interested in photography, especially vintage cameras. I'm really a noob at this but I really would like to get one vintage camera. I do not know what, exactly, do I want. Like, can someone tell me the difference between Holgas and Fisheyes and all the other vintage cameras? Very ma fan, I know.. But I really want a camera that's suitable for a newbie. It should be easy to use lah, because I get confused easily. Also, I want those 'automatic' types, no need to set shutter speed or ISO or whatever on my own de. Sorry for being sooooooo super noob. I must be the first person in ClubSnap to post this type of thread. Sorry ): Thanks!

19th November 2008	#2
frametology Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Upper Thomson Posts: 400	Re: Need help on buying vintage cameras! As defined by wikipedia, "Lomography is the commercial trademark of Lomographische AG, Austria for products and services related to photography. The name is inspired by the former state-run optics manufacturer LOMO PLC of Saint Petersburg, Russia. LOMO PLC created and produced the 35 mm LOMO LC-A Compact Automat camera - which became the centerpiece of Lomography's marketing and sales activities. This camera was loosely based upon the Cosina CX-1 and introduced in the early 1980s. In 1991, the Austrian founders of Lomography discovered the Lomo LC-A.[1] As the company states, they were "charmed by the unique, colorful, and sometimes blurry" images that the camera produced. After a series of international art exhibitions and aggressive marketing work, Lomography signed an exclusive distribution agreement with LOMO PLC - thereby becoming the sole distributor of all Lomo LC-A cameras outside of the Soviet Union. This monopolistic agreement, their viral/tribal marketing strategies and pricing philosophy have generated controversy. Lomography emphasizes casual, snapshot photography. Characteristics such as over-saturated colors, off-kilter exposure, blurring, "happy accidents," and alternative film processing are often considered part of the "Lomographic Technique."[citation needed] Users are encouraged to take a lighthearted approach to their photography, and use these techniques to document everyday life, as the Lomo LC-A's small size, simple controls, and ability to shoot in low light encourages candid photography, photo reportage, and photo vérité through the much-touted "10 Rules." fisheye lenses basically give you shots that cover a very large angle. the fisheye uses 135mm film. fisheye cameras realated to lomo give you shots as such: http://www.flickr.com/photos/true2death/127002630/ the rounded edges, and distortion are characteristics of the fisheye. holgas date back to the 80s where they were made with the intention of providing an inexpensive mass-market camera for working-class Chinese in order to record family portraits and events. it was known as "hao guang" (literally good light in chinese). some ang mohs thought that the holga produced funky photos, and viola! it became a hit 'lomo' cam, though i don't count it as an authentic lomo cam as it isn't made by lomography (someone please correct me if i'm wrong) oh, the normal holga uses 120mm film. it's different from film you find in neighbour hood camera shops (those are 135mm film) pictures by the holga: http://www.flickr.com/photos/microabi/1416775469/ vintage cameras are old old old cameras, probably from the 50s and before. you can find them on ebay. search under the brand agfa or rolleicord or just VINTAGE. you'll yield lots of results. but i'd advise you not to buy anything from there just yet. you probably don't know what and what not to look for. so if you can, just get something from someone in CS. prices may be a bit higher, but hey, if anything screws up, you can at least find the person! HAHAHA. should you really want to get a lomo-ish cam, i would suggest a LCA (but it's quite expensive around 300) or an olympus XA2 (quite a few around, i have one too, just in case you're interested. ha.) these cameras are very simple point and shoot cams. they work almost like a normal digi cam. very fun and interesting to use. you never know what's really going to come out. if you're into lomo because of the funky colours, i must warn you first. the camera doesn't really make the difference. it's the film that gives you the saturated and funky colours. use slide film and cross-process it, (google x-process and you'll know what i mean) hope this helps you a bit. Last edited by frametology; 19th November 2008 at 03:15 PM. Reason: change in links

19th November 2008	#3
Rangefinder_fan Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 504	Re: Need help on buying vintage cameras! Most vintage cameras are not exactly 'automatic', so you'd either need to get hold of a light meter or learn 'sunny-f16' rule. And please do not confuse 'vintage' with products from the Lomo family. They arent even from the same village.

19th November 2008	#5
azzurri Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 1,045	Re: Need help on buying vintage cameras! I do not think that there are that many vintage cameras out there that have an in built light meter, so you are most likely (as mentioned by Rangefinder_fan) need to use a handheld light meter or the Sunny 16 rule. Even in the event that they do have the an in built light meter, you are probably looking at the selenium ones. Given the age of these cameras, these are likely to be not that accurate now (or even accurate). You may have also problems finding batteries for the light meters as many of the earlier cameras use those pesky mercury cells. Of course, there are substitutes for these batteries but you may need to modify it a little. Another problem is finding a good or working condition camera. Due to age, a lot of these cameras have sticky shutter blades that throw the exposure off. Finding the film may be another issue as there are a number (especially Kodak) that do not use the 120 or 135 film. Going by your needs, you may want to find a copy of the Olympus Trip 35. It is cheap and has auto exposure. That is if you consider a camera made from around the late 60s right through to the late 80s vintage. nothing else. If you are getting them to look old school or something, just go for the later models of the Fed or Zorki. Depending on your budget, some of the Zeiss and Voigtlander are also worth considering. You can also look at the TLRs like the Yashica and Mamiya. Rolleicord and Rolleiflex are also not too bad. Wait, Rolleiflex is just awesome.

19th November 2008	#6
rewols New Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 44	Re: Need help on buying vintage cameras! do you really want a vintage camera? as the replies before me have pointed out, most vintage cameras are not exactly the best fool-proof cameras for a newbie. a great number of them does require some understanding of the fundamentals. sure, to use them (as in turn on camera, hit shutter) will be easy enough, but to use them to the effect of producing pictures that you want is another thing. a limited range of camera features/functions does not necessarily equate ease of use. less confusing, for sure (which i guess is a positive), because there are fewer knobs to tinkle with, but if you have a certain idea of how you want your photographs to turn out, it will be trickier and more difficult to find a way to work around the limited capabilities of the cameras in the long run (though, i've to say that you shouldn't get a have-everything camera too - but that's probably worth another thread). are you interested in photography, or in vintage cameras? (if i sound less than kind, it isn't my intention) not to say that they are mutually exclusive, but it helps to understand if you are more interested in the medium or the equipment at this current stage. if the former (and all previously mentioned factors considered), i'll actually suggest you buying one of those compact point-and-shoots (not necessarily vintage. in fact, the 'modern' ones will have auto features and are really easy to use), usually going for a song at cash converters, and from there, learn what's working and what's not for you and maybe get another camera. i cannot really understand (well, i can read them, i just don't like them) the price tags on some of the "lomo" cameras, so unless you have cash to burn, don't get one. even if you do have cash to burn, don't burn it there. instead, burn more film. if you're more interested in the equipment, by all means get a vintage camera. ebay and the classifieds here are good places to look. the already-suggested olympus trip 35 and the olympus xa2 are both great cameras. however, if your interest is geared more towards the cameras, i will suggest that you read up on photography so you will understand the different features on each camera and why a certain camera is more ___________ (insert your own preference) than another. other places to look: http://www.photoethnography.com/equipment.html http://www.kyphoto.com/classics/cameras.html http://mattdentonphoto.com/cameras/index.html Last edited by rewols; 19th November 2008 at 09:55 PM. Reason: i have an issue with using the term lomo cameras. still do.

20th November 2008	#7
Rangefinder_fan Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 504	Re: Need help on buying vintage cameras! I guess if some of us sound slightly less tha encouraging about picking up a vintage camera is that beginner's luck will only take you so far. Sooner or later, due to the limitations of vintage kit (no meter, no battery for meter, meter telling you the wrong things, dried gunk on shutter blades etc etc), you'll walk out of fotohub feeling very irritated as to why your camera does not 'just work'. Anything older, including cars, women and cameras, need just a bit more effort to sort out, so buying a manual vintage camera will be the easiest part of the whole process. Also, google is your friend. There are heaps of online resources out there with pictures, user feedback, comments etc.