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Thread: TNP Article on some of our wedding gurus here..

  1. #61

    Default Re: TNP Article on some of our wedding gurus here..

    Quote Originally Posted by canturn View Post
    Think it wasn't too long ago in CS forum when folks are whining and bitching about photographers who charge too low/spoiling market/undercutting.

    Now that people are commanding almost 5-figure sum for wedding, there's just as much to say about them.

    People are really hard to please
    Actually this thread and the one in Asiaone, really shows the majority's opinion.

    At the end of the day, the market perception did not change.... cheap, fresh, big. And really there are cheaper, fresher and bigger. Just have not encountered any 3-in-1 offer yet.
    Gallery | Facebook Page Spreading the Good photography.

  2. #62

    Default Re: TNP Article on some of our wedding gurus here..

    Quote Originally Posted by lancey View Post
    Precisely. This whole wedding shoot thing and the price differential is all hyped around clever marketting(aka BS) tools. Look at some of these peoples' website, telling others what picture of theirs won which competition and so forth. Pathetic. As if to tell the whole world they should pay more for his/her service.

    reminds me of hawker centres pasting adward certs(culinary of cos) in their stall fronts. Some really CMI.
    hahaha.. well... everyone just wants a piece of the pie. Who's to blame for wanting the most out of a business.

    *edit* mabbe you want to add on to the list...
    http://www.boldspark.com/entertainme...-you-dont-need

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kopi_Luwak
    Last edited by CYRN; 18th November 2008 at 05:17 PM.
    Gallery | Facebook Page Spreading the Good photography.

  3. #63
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    Default Re: TNP Article on some of our wedding gurus here..

    For those photographers who price themselves at $8K/12 hours, good for you if you're able to market yourself successfully and build a market for yourself. These are the photographers who are able to market their service as " THE ART OF WEDDING PHOTOGRAPHY " and not just wedding photography. The fact that they are successful base on their marketing, PR and skills, is something which is worth learning from. And I'm sure some of them will go on to greater heights. That much respect we have to give them.

    But, what I can't understand is this,
    Why the constant need to compare what you charge to what is charged in the US, EU, OZ, etc?
    Take a step back and look at their work compared to our own.
    There's something fresh, special, different, in every job they do.
    Look at their images straight out of the camers without PP.
    Look at their DI/touch up, good enough, if not better, than a commericial job for print ad.
    Look at their training, even their Professional Full Time Photography Assistant can produce better lighting than some of our 4 fig photographers.
    Many of them have studied design with good understand of texture or have work/understudy world/top class photographers.

    With the above in mind, how many of us can say that we're on par with them. We're their equal. We're as good as them. We deserve the same pricing.

    If you think you deserve the same pricing after taking a step back to relook at the bigger picture, than what are you doing here in Singapore? You should be in the US, EU or OZ making the kind of money which you deserve. Singapore will never reach the level of $20K -$30K per wedding, a once in a blue blue moon, MAYBE, but never as a norm. But before you go over to OZ, please read below

    I met up with a friend from OZ who's a Professional Full Time Photography Assistant sometime in June this year ( he working on temp pass here ). I showed him the website of some of our "top wedding photographers" and after seeing through some of them he mentioned that it's quite good. When I ask him, compaired to OZ, what's the diff in standard. He pulled out his portfolio and show me some of his works and ask me to judge for myself. All I can say is that, going by present local pricing, base solely on the portfolio, he should be able to command $10K/12 hour, easy.

    Too bad he left as he can't stand the pace of work here in SG after 2 months.
    I get paid more shooting part time ...... damn, I should find more time to shoot part time

  4. #64
    Moderator chngpe01's Avatar
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    Default Re: TNP Article on some of our wedding gurus here..

    Just a bunch of jealous ppl who cannot command such premium or no where near it will start to bitch and moan about "not worth it" " "no difference between a $2k and 8K photog images etc etc"

    The fact remains that they will be able to command that kind of premium and many wannabe or even old timers will not be able to, period. Whether one respect them or not it does not make an iota of difference to their pockets.

    Anyway be reminded that this is a photo biz section and not a consumer section, which deals with the aspect of photo biz in which questions are asked and tips on running a a photo biz, NOT for running down other pro photographers.

    It will be more productive to see how as a photography community (esp this section) we can learn from each other rather than running down each other.

    Though a full time photog, I do not do wedding bec I do not have the penchant and stamina for it. It is not easy being a wedding photog, I tried and I don't like it. And I respect those in that industry and those who make it to the top and are willing to share and help those aspiring young photographers.

    I suggest to those detractors and consumers here to stop bitching and let this thread in this photo biz section be on the correct direction.
    Last edited by chngpe01; 18th November 2008 at 08:03 PM.

  5. #65

    Default Re: TNP Article on some of our wedding gurus here..

    Quote Originally Posted by chngpe01 View Post
    Just a bunch of jealous ppl who cannot command such premium or no where near it will start to bitch and moan .

    To some, it's all about the $. This is afterall the photobiz section. I hope there is an "artistic wedding photo section" soon so some of us could discuss wedding shooting from a photographic POV rather than this $ talk. Let the business people here do their $ talk. I think one of the reason why the Spore wedding shooter scene has been looked at in a negative way(see TNP report) is because we dun have people, even in revered forums as this one, talking about "how to take good wedding photos". A shame! Shame on you pros!

    Maybe the admin can consider opening up such a section, to discuss real wedding photography, in proper, where they should be discussed.

  6. #66

    Default Re: TNP Article on some of our wedding gurus here..

    Quote Originally Posted by lancey View Post
    To some, it's all about the $. This is afterall the photobiz section. I hope there is an "artistic wedding photo section" soon so some of us could discuss wedding shooting from a photographic POV rather than this $ talk. Let the business people here do their $ talk. I think one of the reason why the Spore wedding shooter scene has been looked at in a negative way(see TNP report) is because we dun have people, even in revered forums as this one, talking about "how to take good wedding photos". A shame! Shame on you pros!

    Maybe the admin can consider opening up such a section, to discuss real wedding photography, in proper, where they should be discussed.
    *Yawn....* when the curtains are drawn, the crowd goes home... so easy to watch the movie.. but so difficult to make one hor? *Yawnnnn*

  7. #67
    Senior Member Cheesecake's Avatar
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    Default Re: TNP Article on some of our wedding gurus here..

    if one can afford it, y not??

    they are some of the best wedding fotographers in the world!

    tsk tsk! these fotographers have some of the best portfolio among all wedding fotographers in the world.
    You'll Never Walk Alone! - i have the best job in the world!

  8. #68
    Moderator chngpe01's Avatar
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    Default Re: TNP Article on some of our wedding gurus here..

    Quote Originally Posted by lancey View Post
    To some, it's all about the $. This is afterall the photobiz section. I hope there is an "artistic wedding photo section" soon so some of us could discuss wedding shooting from a photographic POV rather than this $ talk. Let the business people here do their $ talk. I think one of the reason why the Spore wedding shooter scene has been looked at in a negative way(see TNP report) is because we dun have people, even in revered forums as this one, talking about "how to take good wedding photos". A shame! Shame on you pros!

    Maybe the admin can consider opening up such a section, to discuss real wedding photography, in proper, where they should be discussed.
    You are in no position to shame anyone except yourself. Go get yourself some "artistic wedding images first" then talk if not forever hold your silence, here.

  9. #69

    Default Re: TNP Article on some of our wedding gurus here..

    Quote Originally Posted by lancey View Post
    because we dun have people, even in revered forums as this one, talking about "how to take good wedding photos". A shame! Shame on you pros!
    okayyyy.. so will you do it for us?

  10. #70

    Default Re: TNP Article on some of our wedding gurus here..

    Quote Originally Posted by lancey View Post
    To some, it's all about the $. This is afterall the photobiz section. I hope there is an "artistic wedding photo section" soon so some of us could discuss wedding shooting from a photographic POV rather than this $ talk. Let the business people here do their $ talk. I think one of the reason why the Spore wedding shooter scene has been looked at in a negative way(see TNP report) is because we dun have people, even in revered forums as this one, talking about "how to take good wedding photos". A shame! Shame on you pros!

    Maybe the admin can consider opening up such a section, to discuss real wedding photography, in proper, where they should be discussed.
    From the other thread..... *Yawn*....

    Quote Originally Posted by lancey View Post
    Thx for the input. So charging 5-6k a wedding is still possible in this market. My target is to be doing 100 weddings at this kind of rate. 500k a year plus some commercial stuff should be doable within 5 years. Just need to brush up on my advertising skills and selling skills. PIE!
    Quote Originally Posted by lancey View Post
    that's why u r not used as a benchmark. get it?

    Kelvin took less than 5 years from a nobody to somebody hot in demand. what does that tell u? That anything is possible. even 200 weddings a year is possible if u can hire people and pay them well. Depends on how big u want to be. Dreaming? leave it at night la.
    Quote Originally Posted by lancey View Post
    Now u r toking. Let others wait for the 3000% inflation before they up their rates. Im going in charging at least 3k for Ad. Take it or leave it. U guys wanna sell yourself short, go ahead.
    Quote Originally Posted by lancey View Post
    Im against undercutters too. either be a high end or free. No 2 ways about it the way i look at the market.Charging in between..hmmm...half past 6 la. Might as well dun do.
    Quote Originally Posted by lancey View Post
    Everyone has to start somewhere and for first timers, it's mostly about budget. Of course, once one has sort of made it(or think they have), they can say things like "it's never about the budget". Wow if i have to pay 4-5k for a shooter, I'll make sure i really really like his style boy.
    Quote Originally Posted by lancey View Post
    Look at the photog's website and call to ask his/her rates. If u think u can do better than what he/she's showing, charge the same or more. That's the guideline. Every shooter should try a piece of the pie. It's just too big not to be shared.
    Quote Originally Posted by lancey View Post
    1) I dunno. why dun u? seems strange u r not already doing so.

    2) i will and i believe many newcomers will be joining in and charging competitive rates and give the guys already inside a run for their money. Survival of the fittest.
    Quote Originally Posted by lancey View Post
    I think so too. That's what i have in mind. If i can win some WPJAP watnot then blow trumpet in my blog i think it will be battle half won. Nowsaday, it's all about advertising yourself to the public. But of course, must work hard la, then money will roll in. Then u shoot crap people will savour like gold.
    VS..

    just one statement..
    Quote Originally Posted by lancey View Post
    not necessary. The pictures speak for themselves. Only fools would pay that kindda money for them.



    Oh yeah, Mods, if this post is anything but offending... Do let me know ok. or just remove it as you please. *Yawn*.... damn.. my eyes are hurting from contradictivitis.

  11. #71

    Default Re: TNP Article on some of our wedding gurus here..

    Wow. What a thread this turned out to be and what a read!

    Here are my thoughts... and I don't even know where to begin!

    The wedding industry has evolved in the past 3-4 years. What some of our contemporary wedding photographers are producing today were not as readily available then. During the same period, the rates have adjusted itself higher. What that has done in return is attract some of the best talents we have in this country and even beyond to the wedding photography industry here.

    We get guys like w.s from Feldberyl who would otherwise have remained an engineer if the rates weren't good enough for him to switch careers. Both consumers and photographers, like myself, have benefited from him being in this industry. His works are inspirational and although he charges a premium, he has a steady flow of couples who are keen to engage him. If his works were no different from that of a cheaper photographer, the couple might have gone for the cheaper photographer. However, we live in an age where information is readily available and forum like this and SingaporeBrides are thriving. If there was some one whose works are no different from w.s and who is as affable and liked, I am sure most would logically opt for the cheaper option. Yet, they are not doing that, and thats because they recognise and subscribe to what he produces and are willing to pay him to help them capture their wedding.

    There will always be a majority who cannot tell the difference between the works of a $2000 photographer and one who charges $8000. In this instance, it would be a lot wiser to just hire the $2000 photographer. However, to claim that those who paid $8000 to hire a wedding photographer, are simply hoodwinked into doing so by marketing savy, is really quite an insult.

    Again, if there is no quality in the works of the photographers who are commanding higher rates, they would have difficulty attracting clients in the first place, let alone sustain it. We have a free market economy here and prices are set accordingly. As with all industries, there are low, mid and high end markets. Each has a different business model. The price we put on our services and albums are not any random figure plucked out of nowhere. We build it over time and over referals and accreditations. We work our costs and effort.

    There has always been a high end wedding photography market in Singapore. Its just that it was never as publicised as it is now. About 6-10 years ago, guys like Yervant and David Oliver have been flown down to shoot weddings in Singapore. Other local photographers have also charged around $5000- $10000 for pre-wedding shoots. However, most local wedding day photographers were still treating wedding photography as an event and many were simply going through the motion for the days and capturing the usual standard images which needs to be captured. Expectedly, rates were not high then and perhaps rightly so because it was really nothing more than setting your film camera to P mode and sending the prints to the lab to develop it for you.

    Another difference between what it was some years back and now is that actual day photography has become more significant for most couples. Alot more couples are budgeting aside bigger amount of money for their wedding day and foregoing the pre-wedding shoot. As such, wedding day photographers are now able to offer better services and quality of work and albums simply because the market is asking for these.

    On another note, in the creative industry, one cannot just attach the amount of experience to the quality of work produced! Unlike doctors who would probably get better with experience, the same cannot be said of those in the creative industry, where talent rather than experience appear to be of more importance. As an example, Joe Bussuink, probably one of the most famous wedding photographers ever, made it in just a couple of years. Locally, Jingna, in just three years of shooting, is producing some of the most astounding works ever produced!

  12. #72

    Default Re: TNP Article on some of our wedding gurus here..

    this thread is going way way off course...maybe should just close it...or else just give it to the trouble makers...

    its only a shame that...one who cannot do, can only hide behind a screen...real shame

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