Using ND for day shots

[Saycheese78]

Hi

I am thinking of experimenting with filters and hope to get some advice.

My main purpose is to take better landscape/scenery shots.

I am currently facing frustrations in
1) Not being able to do a long exposure in daylight for creating silky effects for flowing water and making river water more still and less choppy (is it possible to do that in the 1st place :P I wonder whats the effect)
2) For night shots purpose (example, singapore river facing esplanade)

Question
1) Do you guys normally use the screw in type or the cokin type. isn't it very troublesome cos u may need ND2, ND4, ND8 and need to screw in and out non stop?

2) Any advisable kits to kick off? i am thinking of CPL (also act as ND2 I heard) and ND8 for a start.

[Blur Shadow]

Yes, a ND filter will get you on the right track. Still, if you intend to do long exposure in bright daylight, then you may wish to consider purchasing a ND400, which cuts light by 9-stops.

A ND 8 filter may be insufficient. Think about it. Assume regular daylight conditions:
ISO 100
Aperture: f/11
Shutter Speed: 1/250s

Mounting a ND 8 will not cut light sufficiently for a long exposure.

[mogwai]

hi

the disadvantage of screw-in filters is that u can only use it one (or 2 max, with stepup or stepdown) filter thread size.

however, it doesn't necessarily mean more to carry. i have loads of oldschool nikkors which use a 'standard' 52mm, so all i carry are 52mm filters.

however, if u're thinking of just a CPL and ND8, it won't be enough.

this was taken spring time, sunny day (very) in near kyoto

@35mm on d300
f/20, 2s, iso200
and i had ND6, ND8, CPL all in

[Saycheese78]

Hi

Blur Shadow

Thanks for enlightening me on ND400. I was wondering how will day time look with a long exposure. And oh my, I am not ready for such photography.. You need very good control.

MogWai

Can you stack any CPL and ND8 2gether or do you need the front screw type. Those are very expensive. (at least for UV filters. I dun own any other filters) I love your picture and yesh, I am interested in that. How did u manage to screw 3 filters in? Did you use Cokin type?

[mogwai]

hi saycheese

the filters were stacked together (along with the protective UV filter), all screwed onto one another (front to back) with the CPL being the top most one

[Octarine]

Originally Posted by mogwai the filters were stacked together (along with the protective UV filter), all screwed onto one another (front to back) with the CPL being the top most one

Doesn't this defeat the purpose of 'protective UV filter'?
If you intend to stack then you can get bigger size filters (e.g. 77mm) and use step up rings. This will reduce vignetting and you can easily get other step up rings to fit the filters to any lens you have.
Personally, I have the Cokin system with 77mm ring and step ups for all lenses I use. The Cokin allows stacking of 3 filters in the holder. Since the Cokin sizes are established there are also other brnads offering filters for the Cokin holder system: Singh Ray (expensive), Tian Ya (cheap). Be careful with Cokin on lenses of 28mm or wider. You will get vignetting from the filter holder. For such cases get the wide angle version which can only hold 1 filter.

[mogwai]

Originally Posted by Octarine Doesn't this defeat the purpose of 'protective UV filter'?

yes and no.

because the UV filter can still stay on when u remove all the filters to take 'normally'.

vignetting wasn't a problem because it was a 35mm/2 i was using. since u mentioned 77mm threads, i agree that stacking threaded filters will be a problem on big and convex front lens elements.

at the end of the day, as octarine suggested, having multiple cokin type filters with multiple adapter rings would be the most versatile.

[night86mare]

Originally Posted by Saycheese78 Hi Blur Shadow Thanks for enlightening me on ND400. I was wondering how will day time look with a long exposure. And oh my, I am not ready for such photography.. You need very good control.

it's really not that hard, the problem is getting what you want from the camera. just meter, screw on the nd400, and add 9 stops to the exposure lol.

altenratively B&W also has a nd1000 filter (sometimes called 110).. 10 stops for that one.

if you want to make sure something is silky smooth, then these would be it. alternatively there is also a 106 filter from B&W that cuts 6 stops of light. nd 8 and nd 4 don't cut it in the daytime, frankly. 2 or 3 stops is nothing when your original shutter speed has to be something like 1/250 sec at f/8 and iso100

[Saycheese78]

Hi

Thanks for enlightening me. Hmm Vignetting. my lens at 16mm already has certain vignetting issue.. Hmm I wonder if I stack 2 more lens above UV protection, will I see the other 2 lens at 16mm... Hmm Thanks.. it is really good news. Now I shall wait for a BNS opportunity haha.

[Blur Shadow]

At 16mm, it is very likely that stacking filters will lead to vignetting. If you really wish to venture into long exposure, why don't you start with night scenes first? That way, you can slowly figure out how exactly does long exposure works without the cost and the hassle of multiple ND filters?

[night86mare]

Originally Posted by Saycheese78 Hi Thanks for enlightening me. Hmm Vignetting. my lens at 16mm already has certain vignetting issue.. Hmm I wonder if I stack 2 more lens above UV protection, will I see the other 2 lens at 16mm... Hmm Thanks.. it is really good news. Now I shall wait for a BNS opportunity haha.

you should take out your uv protector as it does nothing for any photograph, save degrade quality, even if you have the highest end uv protector in the market.

uv filters are actually meant for high altitudes, since singapore is generally flat, when you are using other filters, don't be lazy, take them out.

16mm should never have issues with vignetting if you do that.. at least for 1 to 2 not too-thick screw on filters.. unless you are shooting wide open all the time,. stopping down helps reduce vignetting, btw.

[coffee3in1]

Originally Posted by night86mare it's really not that hard, the problem is getting what you want from the camera. just meter, screw on the nd400, and add 9 stops to the exposure lol. altenratively B&W also has a nd1000 filter (sometimes called 110).. 10 stops for that one. if you want to make sure something is silky smooth, then these would be it. alternatively there is also a 106 filter from B&W that cuts 6 stops of light. nd 8 and nd 4 don't cut it in the daytime, frankly. 2 or 3 stops is nothing when your original shutter speed has to be something like 1/250 sec at f/8 and iso100

any idea where to get these filters (6,9,10 stops type) in Singapore? I love silky smooth like Zohan.

[night86mare]

Originally Posted by coffee3in1 any idea where to get these filters (6,9,10 stops type) in Singapore? I love silky smooth like Zohan.

b&w? not sure, but it is easily found in the uk.. warehouse express has it, but i don't think they ship to singapore.

hoya nd400, you have to call the respective reputable shops to see if they will bring it in for you, make sure they are aware that it is nd400 and not nd4..

[Blur Shadow]

The Hoya ND400 are fairly easily to purchase. Shops don't always hold stock, but I believe you can easily order them.

[Saycheese78]

Hi nightmare

When I wanna do long exposure, it is typically at wider angles (for scenary) and so I will try to use F8-F16.. Hope that is correct.. I was using F8 all the way but I think F11 - F16 keeps the picture sharper as the DOF is less shallow. Do correct me if I am wrong.

Taking out the UV filter, well I will take out if it is a MUST NAIL IT situation. If not, it is no fun putting it in and taking out like 5X per hr. (haha maybe not that much). I do think it is a bit irritating to clean when you leave a finger mark on the actual lens halfway during the shoot. UV filter is ok.. cos u dun mind being a bit "rough" in cleaning it.

[night86mare]

Originally Posted by Saycheese78 Hi nightmare When I wanna do long exposure, it is typically at wider angles (for scenary) and so I will try to use F8-F16.. Hope that is correct.. I was using F8 all the way but I think F11 - F16 keeps the picture sharper as the DOF is less shallow. Do correct me if I am wrong. Taking out the UV filter, well I will take out if it is a MUST NAIL IT situation. If not, it is no fun putting it in and taking out like 5X per hr. (haha maybe not that much). I do think it is a bit irritating to clean when you leave a finger mark on the actual lens halfway during the shoot. UV filter is ok.. cos u dun mind being a bit "rough" in cleaning it.

er.. i take it out and put it in more than 5x an hour..

good shots come with good effort.. and well, vignetted shots come with laziness , i guess.. i don't really know any other way to put it.

you can try f/8 to f/16, yes, that is a good range.. beyond f/16 diffraction tends to set in and you get image degradation.

[Saycheese78]

Originally Posted by night86mare er.. i take it out and put it in more than 5x an hour.. good shots come with good effort.. and well, vignetted shots come with laziness , i guess.. i don't really know any other way to put it. you can try f/8 to f/16, yes, that is a good range.. beyond f/16 diffraction tends to set in and you get image degradation.

Really? Wow, I was thinking of a Cokin for that purpose!

[Henessy]

Originally Posted by coffee3in1 any idea where to get these filters (6,9,10 stops type) in Singapore? I love silky smooth like Zohan.

Hi, my MO got bring in the 6 stops ND.