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Thread: First gay protest at Speakers' Corner?You going?

  1. #121
    Senior Member azul123's Avatar
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    Default Re: First gay protest at Speakers' Corner?You going?

    Quote Originally Posted by mattlock View Post
    Transsexuals and homosexuals are different, let's make it clear. But I don't get your point anyway? How does them being ostracized have anything to do with whether it's a terrible thing to be gay (or transsexual in this case)?
    Their lifestyle are not the norm and society is not ready to accept their lifestyle, thus the protest and wanting to repeal 377A?

    Let's not kid ourselves, transsexuals and homosexuals are different in form, but do you think our society is ready to see a man and man holding hands and kissing passionately? do you think that's acceptable?

    Wasn't 377A raised as motion and rejected in Parliament? If there is Gay Protest there can easily be an opposition to whatever Gay protested also. Anyway, I think it is not going anyway, I respect your views but I have mine.

    ../azul123

  2. #122

    Default Re: First gay protest at Speakers' Corner?You going?

    For all who are afraid their sons / brothers / other relatives / friends becoming gay if it legalised:

    If they aren't gay in the first place, they won't become gay. It isn't something you can catch like flu. If a guy-guy relationship makes you go "eww" right now, or if you are attracted only to girls, do you think you'll go out and chase guys instead of girls just because the law says it's legal? Legalising it means is that they won't get thrown into jail for their preferences, and that's all it means. It doesn't mean acceptance from you or from society in general.

    And if they're gay in the first place, and just in the closet, or worse, courting arrest with their relationships, do you want them to be happy? Many parents want their children to have a good life in the future. I think being happy is a very large part of it. Far larger than chasing after the 5, 6 or 7Cs. If by chance your child / friend / relative is gay, why don't you just wish them all the best, and tell them you will accept their choice?

    Despite all the biased coverage by the media, being gay doesn't automatically equate being promiscuous either, just as being straight does not automatically equate waiting till marriage. And if you are a guy with a gay friend, it doesn't mean he will like you that way. Just like you don't like every single girl that walks past. Neither does being gay equate to getting aids any more than being straight not getting it. It's a very simple equation. If you have sex with someone who has aids, you get aids, gay or straight.

    And of course now some people will say "you must be gay". No I'm not. I just have friends who are, and perhaps the dubious advantage of having friends that are more open-minded than most since a young age. Open your mind and heart. You will likely be the happier for it.

  3. #123

    Default Re: First gay protest at Speakers' Corner?You going?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlteredVision View Post
    And if they're gay in the first place, and just in the closet, or worse, courting arrest with their relationships, do you want them to be happy? Many parents want their children to have a good life in the future. I think being happy is a very large part of it. Far larger than chasing after the 5, 6 or 7Cs. If by chance your child / friend / relative is gay, why don't you just wish them all the best, and tell them you will accept their choice?
    this is a good point made.

    i think it is never easy to be gay, even though i'll never know for sure - not everyone can embrace it flamboyantly and be candid about it; some are embarassed by the fact that they are different from the "norm".. some wish they were dead.. some would have done better if they had better support from family and friends.

    it is not a matter of you having to join them; rather to seek to understand where they're coming from. if you cannot see things from their point of view, not even remotely, then practice tolerance.

    what i see - someone practising homosexuality normally harms no one, and one can even argue that they also do not harm themselves. and frankly speaking, who are we to judge? i don't really think there is a black and white book - unless you bring religion into the question, which is ironic if you use your choice to quash another person's choice when he has done you no wrong.

    that said, azul123, i do see where you're coming from.. and i think here, it is alright to agree to disagree. who knows when society is ready to see men kissing? or whether it is ready to speak up maturely? sometimes though, we have to make the first leap.. of course it is done best when we are ready for the consequences of not taking the alternate paths.

    on another note, i am always perturbed why gay issues focus primarily on males; my understanding was "gay" stood for anything homosexual.. and there are male and female homosexuals. it is always interesting how males tend to be more comfortable with female homosexuality; and so it seems, the same way for females (with regards to males).
    Last edited by night86mare; 9th November 2008 at 06:37 PM.

  4. #124

    Default Re: First gay protest at Speakers' Corner?You going?

    Does it matter whether being gay is genetically predetermined or a matter of choice? If it is genetically predetermined, are you going to find a cure and force them to undergo conversion therapy (X-Men anyone?)? If it is a choice, are you going to persecute them for their choice and take their freedom to choose away from them?

    Homosexuality is unnatural? How much do you know about nature? Is human society totally natural in the first place? Homosexuality has been observed in more than 1000 animal species, whereas imagining and speaking to an invisible supernatural being have only been observed in 1.

    Homosexuality is abnormal? I think you are confusing between being normal and being common. Heterosexuality is just common. Nature is far more diverse than any human or religious mind can conjure, as photographers we should be aware of that. By your logic, left-handers should be abnormal too.

    What about the procreation argument? In that case, let’s force all the priests, nuns and monks to procreate. While we are at it, let’s arrest all the infertile couples too.
    Last edited by Kusum Kangguru; 9th November 2008 at 07:45 PM.

  5. #125

    Default Re: First gay protest at Speakers' Corner?You going?

    maybe i am one of those older generation who doesn't think so liberally.

    I don't think Sion is gonna read all these bored stuff..


    http://app.mcys.gov.sg/web/faml_promomarry.asp
    (a 2001 survey)
    download this "Attitudes on Family'

    2.17 Overall, the vast majority of Malays and Indians found homosexual behaviour, cohabitation, unmarried persons having children, and divorce (both in general and when married couples have children) unacceptable. Chinese were more likely than both minority groups to have liberal attitudes, as reflected in their lower likelihood to find each of the alternative family arrangements or practices unacceptable. However, the Chinese-ethnic minority group differences in liberal attitudes were smaller in magnitude than the differences between singles and married persons (reported above), as well as differences between age and education groups (reported below).

    2.20 Younger Singaporeans (below 30 years old) were more liberal than older Singaporeans (30 years old and above), although the magnitude of difference varied depending on the issue in question. The largest difference (29%) existed on the issue of an unmarried couple living together: 80% of older Singaporeans found it unacceptable for an unmarried couple to live together but only 51% of younger Singaporeans felt the same. A large young-old difference (21%) also existed on the issue of divorce: 68% of older Singaporeans found divorce unacceptable but only 47% of younger Singaporeans shared the same view. The young-old difference in proportion on the issue of divorce was reduced when children are involved but it remained substantial (17%), with 77% of older Singaporeans and 60% of younger Singaporeans finding it unacceptable. A similarly substantial young-old difference (17%) was observed on the issue of homosexuality: 88% of older Singaporeans and 71% of younger Singaporeans found homosexual behaviour unacceptable. The smallest (but nevertheless substantial) young-old difference (12%) occurred on the issue of unmarried persons having children: 82% of older Singaporeans and 70% of younger Singaporeans found it unacceptable. On each of the five attitudes towards alternative family arrangements or practices, younger married persons were more liberal than older married couples.

    2.21 The findings appear to reflect more liberal attitudes (on homosexual behaviour, cohabitation, unmarried persons having children, and divorce) among younger Singaporeans. It is important to note that the findings are attitudinal and perceptive in nature, and may not translate into actual practice of the arrangements or behaviours concerned. Nevertheless, the findings provide some basis for concern. Beyond the social issues associated with widening intergenerational gaps in attitudes towards these alternative family arrangements and practices, the more liberal attitudes among younger Singaporeans have wider community and national implications for family formation and stability. Changing (increasingly liberal) attitudes may further contribute to the declining marriage and total fertility rates in Singapore as future generations continue to produce fewer marriages, fewer children, and a greater propensity to divorce. Future SAS surveys will continue to gather data on attitudes towards the various alternative family arrangements or practices so as to track possible changes in attitudes over time.

    2.27 Notwithstanding the general difficulty in changing attitudes and values, it remains true that different attitudes and values require different messages and strategies if any effective change is to occur. Over the years, the Singapore Government has introduced a number of pro-natalist measures, pro-family policies, and public education programmes to promote family formation. The findings from SAS 2001 reinforce the position that these measures, policies, and programmes should be more segmented, where appropriate (particularly for public education), to target the various demographic groups of Singaporeans who differ in their attitudes and values towards marriage and procreation. The longitudinal nature of the SAS surveys provides a basis for proactive and effective policy responses to possible shifts in the various family-related attitudes and values over time.

    3.40 Table 7 presents the overall results. As shown in the table, the majority of Singaporeans (85%) found homosexual behaviour unacceptable. While 74% of Singaporeans agreed that it is not right for a couple who is not married to live together, a slightly larger proportion (79%) agreed that people who are not married should not have children. While only 63% found divorce unacceptable, a substantially larger proportion (73%) agreed that couples with children should not divorce or separate. It appears that Singaporeans generally find it harder to accept a couple’s alternative family arrangement or behaviour when children are involved. This is particularly so in the issue of divorce where there was a 10% increase in finding divorce unacceptable when the couples have children.

    3.43 There were smaller but nevertheless substantial single-married differences in proportion agreement on the issues of unmarried persons having children and homosexuality, with proportion difference of 12% and 14%, respectively. Specifically, while 83% of married persons agreed that unmarried persons should not have children, only 71% of singles agreed. Similarly, while 89% of married persons indicated that they find homosexual behavior unacceptable, only 75% of singles indicated likewise.

  6. #126

    Default Re: First gay protest at Speakers' Corner?You going?

    if it's inborn, i would say it's a sad story; do whatever stuff u want, try to keep them behind closed door.

    As in morality, it is my belief that some behaviour is wrong and unacceptable. Nevertheless, it's an acceptable behaviour to some of you.

    we see a few camps in here, the pros, the anti and the neutral. this's a highly controversial topic. a few good post on this topics too even though we don't see eye-to-eye in this topic. BTW, i am not going to dig out those history, dated far back to 5000 years or cross Continent. i would strongly encourage some of u here to read those link that i've attached. yes/no or good/bad.. up to you! That's it

    why not abolish it? it's because the garmen are promoting pro-family, pro-create. BTW, they are not encouraging single-hood either, what made ppl here think that they will accept them.

    http://www.straitstimes.com/ST%2BFor...ry_171038.html

    http://theonlinecitizen.com/2007/10/...-mp-hri-kumar/

    http://theonlinecitizen.com/2007/10/...ent-what-harm/

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section...ode_(Singapore)
    Last edited by dreaming; 9th November 2008 at 11:02 PM.

  7. #127

    Default Re: First gay protest at Speakers' Corner?You going?

    that's why I always tell my mother, we should burn and kill the divorcees, the single mothers, and the unmarried non-virgins.
    They're socially unacceptable!

  8. #128

    Default Re: First gay protest at Speakers' Corner?You going?

    3.40 Table 7 presents the overall results. As shown in the table, the majority of Singaporeans (85%) found homosexual behaviour unacceptable. While 74% of Singaporeans agreed that it is not right for a couple who is not married to live together, a slightly larger proportion (79%) agreed that people who are not married should not have children. While only 63% found divorce unacceptable, a substantially larger proportion (73%) agreed that couples with children should not divorce or separate. It appears that Singaporeans generally find it harder to accept a couple’s alternative family arrangement or behaviour when children are involved. This is particularly so in the issue of divorce where there was a 10% increase in finding divorce unacceptable when the couples have children.


    eh not bad lah.
    Homosexuality is only slightly worse than unmarried parents.And a large percentage of single parents come from a less liberal group (according to statistics)

    So on the bright side, alot of things are unacceptable to Singaporeans, which means that it doesn't really matter!

    Ok so let's go on to the next topic....
    I want to hold a protest to demand that McDonalds switch their Chicken Mcspicy patties back to the original crispy ones!!!They changed it and now it's not as good.

    BTW, here's more information...I realised that there's very skimpy info on the protest, so hopefully this helps abit.

    Gay protest postponed

    By Kor Kian Beng

    SINGAPORE's first outdoor gay protest at Speakers' Corner in Hong Lim Park on Nov15 has been postponed to early next year.

    Organiser Roy Tan, 50, a Singaporean who initiated the event, on Friday cited the overwhelming response from the gay community as a key reason for the date change.

    The event was being postponed 'to ensure that all interested parties - straight, gay and queer - have the opportunity to participate in this landmark occasion', he said in a statement e-mailed to the media.

    Many members of the gay community have expressed interest in taking part, he told The Straits Times when contacted.

    A number of those who are backing the event also want to help him organise it, said Mr Tan, who works in the health-care industry.

    An organising committee has now been set up.

    He declined to comment on a new date, the number of interested participants and organisers, and whether there would be changes to the programme.

    source : http://www.straitstimes.com/Breaking...ry_296996.html

  9. #129
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    Default Re: First gay protest at Speakers' Corner?You going?

    People would feel that to have a meaningful life is to be happy and every garmen wouldn't want to avoid this issue of making every efforts possible for its people to live happily.

    In a time when foreign talents are so important to future competitive growth and survival it is far too short sighted to ignore talented people who happens to fall into this category.

    What then is coming to a country to find life not meaningful anymore because of its stand on gay?

    Besides the more meaningful purpose of working is not only for money but a more meaningful life coming out of being happy in a more flexible environment that could easily adapt to the clean activities of fellowmen. Why have such unfair prejudices against them?

    http://pos-psych.com/news/kathryn-britton/20080707827


  10. #130
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    Default Re: First gay protest at Speakers' Corner?You going?

    Quote Originally Posted by mattlock View Post
    Ok so let's go on to the next topic....
    I want to hold a protest to demand that McDonalds switch their Chicken Mcspicy patties back to the original crispy ones!!!They changed it and now it's not as good.
    And not forgetting that the removal of the delightful Garlic Chilli and replacing it with bland-tasting dispensable chilli.

    But on the issue of morals, it's really up to one's interpretation. But I am more on the side that all human beings should be treated equally. I do not see the need for using the 'procreation' argument to deny hetrosexuals their rights.

    We are all the same species, can't we all get along together?

  11. #131

    Default Re: First gay protest at Speakers' Corner?You going?

    Quote Originally Posted by Makanator View Post
    But on the issue of morals, it's really up to one's interpretation. But I am more on the side that all human beings should be treated equally. I do not see the need for using the 'procreation' argument to deny hetrosexuals their rights.

    We are all the same species, can't we all get along together?

    Unfortunately, humans, by nature, fear what they don't understand. Fear then leads to hate, hate then leads to suffering (to paraphrase Yoda here).

    And your right about the moral issue, every culture would have their own moral practices, and every culture is different. For example, certain tribes in Papua New Guinea practice ritual cannibalism. We think they're uncivilised, to them, however, they want to instill the spirit of that dead person.

    So yes, all humans should be treated equally, but that's never the case in reality isn't it?

  12. #132

    Default Re: First gay protest at Speakers' Corner?You going?

    Quote Originally Posted by mattlock View Post
    that's why I always tell my mother, we should burn and kill the divorcees, the single mothers, and the unmarried non-virgins.
    They're socially unacceptable!
    Do you realise how much greenhouse gases you're going to put into the atmosphere will all that burning??...

  13. #133

    Default Re: First gay protest at Speakers' Corner?You going?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlteredVision View Post
    For all who are afraid their sons / brothers / other relatives / friends becoming gay if it legalised:

    If they aren't gay in the first place, they won't become gay. It isn't something you can catch like flu. If a guy-guy relationship makes you go "eww" right now, or if you are attracted only to girls, do you think you'll go out and chase guys instead of girls just because the law says it's legal? Legalising it means is that they won't get thrown into jail for their preferences, and that's all it means. It doesn't mean acceptance from you or from society in general.

    And if they're gay in the first place, and just in the closet, or worse, courting arrest with their relationships, do you want them to be happy? Many parents want their children to have a good life in the future. I think being happy is a very large part of it. Far larger than chasing after the 5, 6 or 7Cs. If by chance your child / friend / relative is gay, why don't you just wish them all the best, and tell them you will accept their choice?

    Despite all the biased coverage by the media, being gay doesn't automatically equate being promiscuous either, just as being straight does not automatically equate waiting till marriage. And if you are a guy with a gay friend, it doesn't mean he will like you that way. Just like you don't like every single girl that walks past. Neither does being gay equate to getting aids any more than being straight not getting it. It's a very simple equation. If you have sex with someone who has aids, you get aids, gay or straight.

    And of course now some people will say "you must be gay". No I'm not. I just have friends who are, and perhaps the dubious advantage of having friends that are more open-minded than most since a young age. Open your mind and heart. You will likely be the happier for it.
    Kudos! One of the most sensible posts I have seen. I am too not gay but am like you. I got relative who is gay, friends who are lesbian and gay.

    The tolerance one has on this topic has nothing to do with age as contrary to what some say. It does not mean the "new" generation is more liberal and hence accept "sin" rather i see it as we are now more informed and better read as compared to the "older" generation who still hang on to hear say, misinformed judgments, rumors that are taken as truths, and selective reading and presenting only statements that support their own theory and admitting that they are not going to look at statements that do not support their theory. It does not take a genius to figure out why they are always so ignorant and worse, believe they know it all when all they know is to read what they want to read.

  14. #134

    Default Re: First gay protest at Speakers' Corner?You going?

    It's the posts like such found in this thread that I have to remind myself time and again we're living in the 21st century and not the 15th century era of Tomás de Torquemada.

    Live and let live

  15. #135
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    Default Re: First gay protest at Speakers' Corner?You going?

    Quote Originally Posted by azul123 View Post
    Their lifestyle are not the norm and society is not ready to accept their lifestyle, thus the protest and wanting to repeal 377A?

    Let's not kid ourselves, transsexuals and homosexuals are different in form, but do you think our society is ready to see a man and man holding hands and kissing passionately? do you think that's acceptable?

    Wasn't 377A raised as motion and rejected in Parliament? If there is Gay Protest there can easily be an opposition to whatever Gay protested also. Anyway, I think it is not going anyway, I respect your views but I have mine.

    ../azul123
    For me, I am definitely not ready to accept gay behaviour.

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    Default Re: First gay protest at Speakers' Corner?You going?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kusum Kangguru View Post

    Homosexuality is unnatural? How much do you know about nature? Is human society totally natural in the first place? Homosexuality has been observed in more than 1000 animal species, whereas imagining and speaking to an invisible supernatural being have only been observed in 1.
    Does it mean if animal species got homo, means humans should have?

    All animals dun surf internet, means humans should not surf internet too?

  17. #137

    Default Re: First gay protest at Speakers' Corner?You going?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shu22 View Post
    Does it mean if animal species got homo, means humans should have?

    All animals dun surf internet, means humans should not surf internet too?
    That is because humans are but highly evolved animals. We share many things with our animal cousins. That is why monkeys are used to test drugs before they are used on humans. Simple reasoning we are nothing but evolved monkeys.
    Last edited by aeskywan; 10th November 2008 at 10:46 AM.

  18. #138

    Default Re: First gay protest at Speakers' Corner?You going?

    may we have a headcount? So whos going from CS?

    "We are family; i got all my sisters and me..."

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    Default Re: First gay protest at Speakers' Corner?You going?

    Quote Originally Posted by contaxable View Post
    may we have a headcount? So whos going from CS?

    "We are family; i got all my sisters and me..."
    So, after long debates that both camps are unable to convince the other camp, we are back to the topic.

  20. #140
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    Default Re: First gay protest at Speakers' Corner?You going?

    I have no intention of posting my views on this thread as i believe such topics will be never ending and also a waste of my time in trying to urge people to be open minded and less critical about homosexuals. However, i feel that i ought to share a few words after reading this far. The main reason is because i would like to applaud aeskywan , forward, alteredvision and night86mare for their humane views of the world.

    Did someone mentioned that he will disown his child if the child turns out to be gay. Do you mean to say even if your child is filial,kind hearted,intelligent and contributes to society, you will kill or disown your offspring just because he is gay? Would you prefer a parents/wife beater,cruel heterosexual person as your child instead? May i suggest that you ask yourself this question after you become a parent?

    A friend from china taught me this saying " 说话要留后路给自己.“ For those of you who are so against homosexuality, have you wondered if one day you will be standing there (be it verbally or silently) to fight for their rights maybe because of your acceptance of your gay loved ones? How would you feel if years down the road,people remember your homophobic remarks and teased you for your acceptance? Sometimes there must be hate in order to have love.

    The world is so diverse and since you can't change it, embrace it! If you don't like the idea that there will be a gay protest,just don't go. If you see a flamboyantly gay man in front of you and it annoys you, look away or walk off. You have a choice. I believe you will not be forced at gun point to look at them!
    Last edited by bovine; 10th November 2008 at 11:08 AM.

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