Low Light Indoor Flash Photography

[Ben Loke]

Hi Pentaxians,

When come to low light flash photography, I sometiomes encounter underexposed pics.

Yesterday I was at Victoria Concert Hall for my wife's graduation ceremony, I took a group shots with K20D + DA*16-50mm + AF540FGZ.

The subject faces were correctly exposed but their glowns seems to melt into the dark backgroup.
Setting:

1) Apecture P at F4.0 ISO 400
2) Bounce flash with built-in relector at A setting, ISO 400 & F4.0

Another shots taken at tea reception but this time not low light. The subjects were standing in front of a dark maroon colour curtain, the result seems that the curtain absorbed all the lights from my flash and only their faces looks correctly exposed.

When used a compact digi-cam, the exposure was better with the colour of the maroon curtain visible.

Appreciate for advices for such situation.

Thanks.

[flowerpot]

i recently did a shoot for my friend wedding in KL using K20D + AF540 as well... not much exposure problems but i use PTTL though... but got AF problems

got pic to show ??

2) i assume u use the built in bounce card ? is the ceiling high or low ?

Pentax flash need to +0.7 to +1 to the flash power else its not enough, at least thats what i did...
could be the flash coverage not enough...
the tiny little bounce card cannot cover much if there is no ceiling to support the bounce...

[Ben Loke]

Thanks.

I will show the pics this evening with data.

I used the flash bounce card.

Pics taken inside hall has high ceiling which explained lack of coverage. But at the tea reception, the ceiling is about less than 3 meters.

BTW, not all pics taken indoor were bad, but I cannot explain why subjects standing in front of curtain is affected.

[Ben Loke]

//got pic to show ??//

Hi, here are 2 pics. Hope to receive advice and comments. Thanks.

FL: 18mm
SS: 1/30
APAE
ISO: 400
EC: 0.5



FL: 34mm
SS: 1/45
APAE
ISO: 400
EC: 0.5

[darrrrrrrrrr]

If you noticed the underexposure on the histogram, you could have either opened up aperture (but not recommended since you're already at f4) / set the ISO on the flash to 320 or 200 to compensate with more flash power / bump up the aperture on the camera.

Anyway, if indoor I prefer to keep it in M mode and play with the shutter speed from 1/60 to 1/25 to get the right mix of ambient in the background and flash in the foreground. I suspect P/Av mode may be responsible for the "deer in headlight" result with nicely exposed foreground and dark background(as it tends to default to 1/60).

Since you bounced the flash upwards and used the bounce card, it's not as pronounced as on-axis direct flash, but because the gowns are black then it will appear to blend in. Maybe use M mode, drag the shutter and use a higher ISO, these may give better balance between the flash and ambient.

-------

With regard to your 2 examples, I've read tips on how to shoot photos in nightclubs. They've suggested increasing ISO up to 1600 or beyond depending on how much noise is produced and acceptable. Your flash will have to work less, but more crucially, when combined with a long shutter speed (perhaps even 1/6), the background will be nicely exposed giving a good sense of the environment, and in your case, separation from the background.

Good thing is at least the faces are nicely exposed in these 2 problem shots, maybe some fill light in lightroom will lift the shadows enough for your tastes?

[Ben Loke]

Originally Posted by darrrrrrrrrr If you noticed the underexposure on the histogram, you could have either opened up aperture (but not recommended since you're already at f4) / set the ISO on the flash to 320 or 200 to compensate with more flash power / bump up the aperture on the camera. Anyway, if indoor I prefer to keep it in M mode and play with the shutter speed from 1/60 to 1/25 to get the right mix of ambient in the background and flash in the foreground. I suspect P/Av mode may be responsible for the "deer in headlight" result with nicely exposed foreground and dark background(as it tends to default to 1/60). Since you bounced the flash upwards and used the bounce card, it's not as pronounced as on-axis direct flash, but because the gowns are black then it will appear to blend in. Maybe use M mode, drag the shutter and use a higher ISO, these may give better balance between the flash and ambient. ------- With regard to your 2 examples, I've read tips on how to shoot photos in nightclubs. They've suggested increasing ISO up to 1600 or beyond depending on how much noise is produced and acceptable. Your flash will have to work less, but more crucially, when combined with a long shutter speed (perhaps even 1/6), the background will be nicely exposed giving a good sense of the environment, and in your case, separation from the background. Good thing is at least the faces are nicely exposed in these 2 problem shots, maybe some fill light in lightroom will lift the shadows enough for your tastes?

Thanks Darrrrrrr,

The cam has no problem with the AF, that shows sufficient light. But my pic can't even bring out at least the outline of the gowns.

I will experiment with different settings base on your suggestions.

BTW, the flash was in A mode with ISO 400 & F4.0.

Since you suggested to use M mode on the cam, what mode setting should I use on the flash? A or M when I use bounce?

[flowerpot]

firstly on the lighter side... u have a pretty wife... sorry...

now back to the serious side...just my 2 cents ah... i dun shoot with flash often these days... maybe ppl with event experience can offer more...

this i just what i think ah i could be wrong...
1) high ceiling, bounce up not much effect, the main light comes from the tiny bounce card...the small bounce card is not enough coverage for the group... stofen diffuser, lightsphere or a bigger bounce card might improve... i dun think the hall is as dim as the picture shows... my guess is its probably a little brighter... the small bounce card make the light slightly harsh, the bigger the light source in relation to the subject, the less harsh the light is...this even applies to direct flash... a bigger light source will have a better coverage and more diffused light, but the flash output will suffer so must compensate a bit...
having said that, i think even if u used the abovementioned, the gown will still look dark since its dark in the first place, but the overall group shoot just look better expose thats all... there is a slight imitation when taking group shot if u want to have the background/ambient more balance to the subject rather than being dark becos the aperture cannot open too much else some faces will look very soft and might easily over expose with flash with slow shutter... the shutter and iso have to give and take here as well...

2) this seems ok to mi... ceiling bounce has effect ... diffuse nicely... i dun see any problem with the curtain... remove the bounce card and the curtain will look slightly more balance but the face will be slightly tiny bit darker...

anyway its hard to give a correct analysis unless i also there to take the shots...

[darrrrrrrrrr]

Originally Posted by Ben Loke Thanks Darrrrrrr, The cam has no problem with the AF, that shows sufficient light. But my pic can't even bring out at least the outline of the gowns. I will experiment with different settings base on your suggestions. BTW, the flash was in A mode with ISO 400 & F4.0. Since you suggested to use M mode on the cam, what mode setting should I use on the flash? A or M when I use bounce?

Perhaps you might want to try using a big bounce card (A5/A4 size?), it might give a better "wrap around" flash effect so that the people stand out better. After all, if there's no ceiling to bounce off from, then your next goal is to enlarge the apparent light source. In this case a big bounce card will beat the little pull-out card hands down. That small one is used in conjunction with ceiling bounce to fill in the "raccoon eyes" ie. the shadows caused by the top-down lighting.

I will leave it at A mode as well (no pre-flash to cause blinking!) and tweak either the flash setting or camera setting depending on whether over/under expose.

[P3ntx]

I have not any problems, in low light except when focusing, I think you have to know the metering, flash power, aperture and the characteristic of your lens, been using k100d for 3 years, but my fews week with the k20d was some problems liken to yours...

The k2OD is very setting sensitive... ( my K1OOD was a important guide after I owned the K20D ... ) During my first few weeks with the K2OD.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/nc_chia

[Ben Loke]

[quote=flowerpot;4488446]firstly on the lighter side... u have a pretty wife... sorry...

Hi Flowerpot: I wish .... and hope my wife does not know. Actually she's my wife's course mate in that 2 person photo. Better to remove those pics before my ear kanna stretch long......

Anyway, thanks guys for your inputs.

The results perhaps different if I did not forgot to leave my sphere at home on that day. Having said that, I once took some indoor pics with the same gear + sphere, but I was not satisfied with the results.

Is taking indoor photography a challenge for DSLR? Back in my film days with K1000, I just set apecture F5.6 & shutter 1/60 with flash at A setting. The results were always good.

p/s: P3ntx, goods pics you have there..

BTW, I was told that CN flash control was one of the best in the market. Duno if that's true or sales talk.

Look forward to Nov 15th meeting so can exchanges more ideas.

[art2d2]

Originally Posted by Ben Loke Anyway, thanks guys for your inputs. The results perhaps different if I did not forgot to leave my sphere at home on that day. Having said that, I once took some indoor pics with the same gear + sphere, but I was not satisfied with the results. Is taking indoor photography a challenge for DSLR? Back in my film days with K1000, I just set apecture F5.6 & shutter 1/60 with flash at A setting. The results were always good. p/s: P3ntx, goods pics you have there.. BTW, I was told that CN flash control was one of the best in the market. Duno if that's true or sales talk. Look forward to Nov 15th meeting so can exchanges more ideas.

Having used both Canon and Nikon flash system before, so far the better one is still Nikon. 2 days ago I was covering a wedding dinner with my K20D + AF540FGZ + bounce card and I do struggle a bit on the exposure. Most of the bounce shots came out great, but the problem start when there is no ceiling to bounce. I'm still learning to get the best settings on the cam and flash for events, perhaps our flash gurus here can organised a workshop for Pentaxians ?

[flowerpot]

yup Nikon flash system ...

if u would believe, using the exact same settings, Nikon still better results...

anyway last time i take it for granted when using Nikon flash, cos most of the time the results are good...now using Pentax it kinda force me to really experiment and try difference settings, different setup till i get it right and try to understand better... though still in the mist of learning, dun shoot enough events...

[Ben Loke]

Originally Posted by flowerpot yup Nikon flash system ... if u would believe, using the exact same settings, Nikon still better results... anyway last time i take it for granted when using Nikon flash, cos most of the time the results are good...now using Pentax it kinda force me to really experiment and try difference settings, different setup till i get it right and try to understand better... though still in the mist of learning, dun shoot enough events...

Later this month I volunteer as backup cam for my colleague wedding dinner. I have both 360 & 540 flash and can experiment using either 360 as master and 540 slave or vice versa with sphere and diffuser.

Will experiment test shots in office first with master & slave flashes before they look like 2 horns sticking out of my cam at the wedding.

[adiknaim]

the sphere would hv done a better job since the ceiling was too high.. also, u could have used a slower shutter... since everyone is posing (nt moving) n u have SR, can get more ambient light in... ISO oso can... juz my noob inputs based on my exp doing a wedding in KL... ball room.. ceiling ultra high... used a sphere as well..

[P3ntx]

When I got started to use K20D it was just like learning to ride bicycle ....you have to know the behaviour characteristics you your camera what you think as you becomes...( I am still not good enough)

I have developed and learned to make different types of diffusers for my 540... not so much about gearhead though Nikon I-intelligient flash is the best flash system.

Just do some work to explore the effects...you will get there anyway, you will be better in control of situations... with your know why and how ... techniques over gearheads.

Something like you fish and you cook, rather than go market just buy. I am just using a metaphor. (I don't promote fishing and killings, I heard of retribution of crippled/cancer is from killing) if you feel not right about what I say. I am just using a metaphor.

[Ben Loke]

Thanks for sharing.

I believe so, as mentioned earlier, DSLR flash photography is a challange for me. My first DSLR was the istD and faced the same challenge too.