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Thread: Color management with display, photoshop and printer

  1. #21

    Default Re: Color management with display, photoshop and printer

    [QUOTE=BeeHive;4466025] "NVIDIA control panel for screen optimization" is just a built in software that does not create monitor color profile for u. ]

    Please help me on this: My imac display allows calibration - setting the gamma and white point and adjusting the contrast, is this considered software calibration? If so, does it means that I would need to get a hardware calibration tool such as Spyder3 to get the desired result?


    Quote Originally Posted by theRBK View Post
    calibration involves adjusting the monitor itself and requires higher end monitors as well as equipment to make it worthwhile)...
    Does iMac 24" display fit th bill?

    Thank you,

    KK

  2. #22
    Moderator Clown's Avatar
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    Default Re: Color management with display, photoshop and printer

    [QUOTE=kkgoxplore;4797007]
    Quote Originally Posted by BeeHive View Post
    "NVIDIA control panel for screen optimization" is just a built in software that does not create monitor color profile for u. ]

    Please help me on this: My imac display allows calibration - setting the gamma and white point and adjusting the contrast, is this considered software calibration? If so, does it means that I would need to get a hardware calibration tool such as Spyder3 to get the desired result?




    Does iMac 24" display fit th bill?

    Thank you,

    KK
    honestly speaking, the iMac screens are quite bad when it comes to being calibrated. i use both the 20 and 24 inch imacs almost everyday. calibrating them to 85% accuracy is almost impossible.
    for one, the screen is just too bright, even at the lowest setting.

    my advice is to get another external screen, like a philips 24" or the dell 24" and go on from there. the imac lacks hardware RGB controls to be calibrated properly.
    sigh.

  3. #23

    Default Re: Color management with display, photoshop and printer

    [QUOTE=Clown;4797325]
    Quote Originally Posted by kkgoxplore View Post
    honestly speaking, the iMac screens are quite bad when it comes to being calibrated. i use both the 20 and 24 inch imacs almost everyday. calibrating them to 85% accuracy is almost impossible.
    for one, the screen is just too bright, even at the lowest setting.

    my advice is to get another external screen, like a philips 24" or the dell 24" and go on from there. the imac lacks hardware RGB controls to be calibrated properly.
    Thanks. This is painful, juz got my iMac and Epson R1900 to do my own printing.

  4. #24

    Default Re: Color management with display, photoshop and printer

    [QUOTE=Clown;4797325]
    Quote Originally Posted by kkgoxplore View Post
    honestly speaking, the iMac screens are quite bad when it comes to being calibrated. i use both the 20 and 24 inch imacs almost everyday. calibrating them to 85% accuracy is almost impossible.
    for one, the screen is just too bright, even at the lowest setting.

    my advice is to get another external screen, like a philips 24" or the dell 24" and go on from there. the imac lacks hardware RGB controls to be calibrated properly.
    [QUOTE=kkgoxplore;4797507]
    Quote Originally Posted by Clown View Post

    Thanks. This is painful, juz got my iMac and Epson R1900 to do my own printing.
    I have managed to get my iMac display calibrated (with Spdyder3 Pro). The print result I would say is OK for now and should get better as I learnt the system.

  5. #25

    Default Re: Color management with display, photoshop and printer

    Save yourself a lot of hassle & expense by having your printing done commercially at a good lab. They may not produce 100% accurate colours but neither did they in the days when film was the normal medium, and most people didn't complain about the colour-matching then as I recall.

    I used to print all my own pics, but the ink and paper I was using cost me a fortune. Now I have my pics printed at a lab at a fraction of the cost, and the colours are as near to what they look like on my monitor to satisfy anyone. More so than when I used to print my own! As long as skin tones look proper and natural (and same for grass), there's no need to have every colour precisely matched. Colour-management is an exact science and can be a confusing one also, but there really is no need to get seriously into it unless you are a professional with enough money to fully calibrate everything and you insist on perfect colour-matching. I don't subscribe to that discipline.
    Last edited by pip22; 17th February 2009 at 06:51 AM.

  6. #26

    Default Re: Color management with display, photoshop and printer

    Quote Originally Posted by pip22 View Post
    Save yourself a lot of hassle & expense by having your printing done commercially at a good lab. They may not produce 100% accurate colours but neither did they in the days when film was the normal medium, and most people didn't complain about the colour-matching then as I recall.

    I used to print all my own pics, but the ink and paper I was using cost me a fortune. Now I have my pics printed at a lab at a fraction of the cost, and the colours are as near to what they look like on my monitor to satisfy anyone. More so than when I used to print my own! As long as skin tones look proper and natural (and same for grass), there's no need to have every colour precisely matched. Colour-management is an exact science and can be a confusing one also, but there really is no need to get seriously into it unless you are a professional with enough money to fully calibrate everything and you insist on perfect colour-matching. I don't subscribe to that discipline.
    Well said!
    F3,F4,D70s,D3,1424,1735,2035,2470,2870,3570,80200, 80400,28PC, 351.4,Z352,501.2,Z851.4,MIR500

  7. #27
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    Default Re: Color management with display, photoshop and printer

    i will not repeat what theRBK has mentioned as he provided the most relevant suggestions.

    you will need to manage your expectations a little, and understand that monitor colours are based on light transmission, and photos rely on ink and paper combination. contrast ratio is also much lesser on a print.

    having said that, you can achieve very close results on your prints if you are on a colour managed workflow:

    calibrated monitor
    knowing how to soft proof, and make necessary adjustments
    understanding perceptual vs relative intents
    using appropriate profiles for your printer and paper type
    printing is an art - practice makes perfect!

    the major problem is that most people do not understand soft proofing, and some actually double-colour-manage their files, hence the weird results in their prints.

    there is too much information and it is hard to explain within the forum interface. if you are willing to spend ~USD30 plus, i'll recommend the From Camera To Print video tutorials available at luminous-landscape.com

    all the best, and happy printing!

  8. #28

    Default Re: Color management with display, photoshop and printer

    Quote Originally Posted by khai View Post
    i will not repeat what theRBK has mentioned as he provided the most relevant suggestions.

    you will need to manage your expectations a little, and understand that monitor colours are based on light transmission, and photos rely on ink and paper combination. contrast ratio is also much lesser on a print.

    having said that, you can achieve very close results on your prints if you are on a colour managed workflow:

    calibrated monitor
    knowing how to soft proof, and make necessary adjustments
    understanding perceptual vs relative intents
    using appropriate profiles for your printer and paper type
    printing is an art - practice makes perfect!

    the major problem is that most people do not understand soft proofing, and some actually double-colour-manage their files, hence the weird results in their prints.

    there is too much information and it is hard to explain within the forum interface. if you are willing to spend ~USD30 plus, i'll recommend the From Camera To Print video tutorials available at luminous-landscape.com

    all the best, and happy printing!
    Can't agree more. I am learning my rope.

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Color management with display, photoshop and printer

    Many have contributed to this very complex subject and have very good advices. Allow me to chip in as a vendor, Iíll try to be candid on this quality issue on CMS and explain it for the layman, but itís still a very technical subject. Iím a specialist and researcher on the subject of colors and Iíve a couple of patents.

    Color management is a know-how, it's also a process, only you can manage or control. If you do not get it right in the beginning, itís usually too late to depend on your vendor to improve on it. Itís more appropriate to say its color control than color management. If you are serious about colors and quality, get the necessary equipment and knowledge. It's high costs, needs time, itís also a know-how learning process and will eventually develop into a skill. Most went thru the ritual with trials and errors. It's an interesting subject, it can be a fun and at the same time frustrating. The satisfaction is in knowing that you can control the colors, no guesswork, true WYSIWYG on screen and on print.

    There are lots of talks on monitor calibrations, print calibration but few on camera calibration. Remember, ďgarbage in, garbage outĒ. Calibration is a mechanical (or software tool) intervention to rectify the graduation of any instrument giving quantitative measurements. It usually reset to factory default or ďzeroedĒ. The only way to balance it is to create an ICC profile to compensate the differences.

    ICC profile ~ It is like a fingerprint; itís the characteristics of a device (input or output), unique and only applicable on the device. There are generic ICC profiles (or standard) like Adobe, Japan, Euroscale, SWOP, etc,. Do remember, data in ICC profile are constant, but the equipment is unstable.
    Color Target ~ Color palette to be viewed or printed as above standards (to be measured or compare), a reference to achieve. Or else, you would not have a destination.
    Camera and Scanner ~ Input devices, RGB profiles only.
    Monitor and Printer ~ Output devices, can be RGB or CMYK profiles.
    Print driver ~ Most print driver drive RGB files to CMYK printer, its difficult for layman to control CMYK. Low cost consumer devices.
    RIP ~ Raster Image Processor, rasterised a RGB file to CMYK to output on a CMYK printer. Professional devices, liked wide format inkjet, Epson, HP and toner for Canon, FX, etc,.

    Itís all about color balance, white point and grey (RGB) on monitor, grey (CMY) balance on print.

    Printing with ink is measured by the thickness of the ink coverage or density, it must be balanced and consistent. Offset and digital printings are very different from photographic prints that are process and measured by the strength of the chemical. Consistency is always a challenge whether producing with ink or chemical.

    For print with CMYK, whether on your inkjet or commercial print vendors, look at highlights (light areas like 5% to 20%), mid-tone (40% to 60%) and shadows (75% to 95%). It's tough achieving color balance in these 3 areas, it's tougher printing them consistently.

    Most on CS have the necessary skill set to shoot and capture, few can edit well. It gets better with every shots you took, every work that youíve produced. Experience the process, the improvement, and the joy and have fun.
    just1book, no kidding!

  10. #30

    Default Re: Color management with display, photoshop and printer

    Quote Originally Posted by Winsonapm View Post
    Most on CS have the necessary skill set to shoot and capture, few can edit well. It gets better with every shots you took, every work that youíve produced. Experience the process, the improvement, and the joy and have fun.
    I did not know and neither did I need to, about color management and the printing process in the day of films. Borrowing a phrase from Andrew Rodney, "I did not truly understand how my images were handled after turning over my finished film" . . . to the lab for printing. My first "color shock" came about after I got my film scanner. Going digital a year ago opened up a new challenge for me. Yes, it has been a mind blogging and oft frustrating and costly affair but it has also made the photography process more enriching and wholesome . To this I shall add, the final print is not the end but the journey is.

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