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Thread: Wedding Photographer Mishap: What to do?

  1. #121
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    Default Re: Wedding Photographer Mishap: What to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    lol, wasting couple's money to ask you to take a snap shot using PnS....

    anyway, if someone asking me to help to snap using their PnS, I smile and help them, when returning the camera, I tell them first shot is FREE, second shot onward is $20 per shot..... strangely, no one will ask me to help again...heheheh
    Not taking it out of context, but in overseas, the pros sell each picture from his own camera, over and above the service fee, at USD$30-50 each image. When we eventually moved to this level, which I believe we will soon, more photographers will see why they shouldn't be doing anyone with a PNS any favour.

    Remember, the picture from the PNS isn't going to be edited, people are going to say you shot it. If it doesn't turn out that well, e.g. relative set the PNS to iso 1600 for some strange reasons, just remember that the image will be circulated around along with your name tag to it.

    Also, you have this issue with copyright. Remember, copyright of the image belongs to the person who click the shutter. What happens if they guy decides to sell the image to the press for $$? For all you know, they could be members from the same company or the person requesting it might be standing next to someone who's a big shot. Few weeks later you see the picture you shot using the PNS being published as an ad in a newspaper or magazine, where you could have just billed the guy for usage and loading.

    Just somethings for everyone to think about.

  2. #122

    Default Re: Wedding Photographer Mishap: What to do?

    Actual day wedding shoot is not a studio shoot. Not everything is within the photographer's control. Just do the best you can. If you fail, you know you are not good enough.

    By barking at the couple friends and relative is no-no. They are the couple invited guests. A wedding can still go ahead without a photographer.

  3. #123
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wedding Photographer Mishap: What to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by canturn View Post
    Not taking it out of context, but in overseas, the pros sell each picture from his own camera, over and above the service fee, at USD$30-50 each image. When we eventually moved to this level, which I believe we will soon, more photographers will see why they shouldn't be doing anyone with a PNS any favour.

    Remember, the picture from the PNS isn't going to be edited, people are going to say you shot it. If it doesn't turn out that well, e.g. relative set the PNS to iso 1600 for some strange reasons, just remember that the image will be circulated around along with your name tag to it.

    Also, you have this issue with copyright. Remember, copyright of the image belongs to the person who click the shutter. What happens if they guy decides to sell the image to the press for $$? For all you know, they could be members from the same company or the person requesting it might be standing next to someone who's a big shot. Few weeks later you see the picture you shot using the PNS being published as an ad in a newspaper or magazine, where you could have just billed the guy for usage and loading.

    Just somethings for everyone to think about.
    thanks for sharing, I'm aware of that, but I'm using many ways to say "no" nicely to these people .......

    now you give me another idea..... next time, after I shot with their PnS, I will tell them that they can't use the image without my written permission, cause I own the copyrights of the image, even tho I'm using their camera......
    Last edited by catchlights; 26th October 2008 at 07:01 PM.
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  4. #124
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    Default Re: Wedding Photographer Mishap: What to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotoudavid View Post
    When ppl shoot besides me, i will stop actually, and ask the guest to look at the other photographers, after they finish then i take, this happens when in group photo only.
    Agree this works well with me too.
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  5. #125

    Default Re: Wedding Photographer Mishap: What to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Xiao_shin View Post
    Actual day wedding shoot is not a studio shoot. Not everything is within the photographer's control. Just do the best you can. If you fail, you know you are not good enough.

    By barking at the couple friends and relative is no-no. They are the couple invited guests. A wedding can still go ahead without a photographer.
    A wedding will still go on without uncle bob and his camera....
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  6. #126

    Default Re: Wedding Photographer Mishap: What to do?

    This topic has lit up several dark corners of this trade. Let us not use this discussion to compare whose workflow is wrong or right. I believe each has his own style and practice. Ultimately, photographers have their own discipline and rules in this trade. Wether it is to protect his or his client's interest (or both), it still stands within the terms stipulated in a contract.

    In the USA, photographers are generally quite firm on such terms. In fact, if the photographer felt really unfair or abused or insulted, he/she will walk off without returning a single cent and only deliver whatever he/she fancy.

    This is Asia, this is Singapore. PNS & DSLR (plus film cameras) is a common sight. The couple will not indicate T&Cs for their guests to attend the banquet. Neither will they inform guests about the terms of contract with photographer that no GWC can shoot alongside with the hired lensman.

    Best is to deal with each situation and let laughter be the tool to get things done your way. I can make jokes to make the uncle with PNS embarrassed, I can make jokes to make the GWC give way and everyone just burst out laughing. It is a happy occasion. Let joy be the centre of focus. When the guests look happy, you can see how appreciative the couple will be. Almost automatically, they may even present a nice token before you leave. But of course, the additional ang bao should not be our main aim. It is but an indication of appreciation. A benchmark.

    It is possible to train the bridesmaids how to pose before camera during the day. By the time I shoot them in the night, they can even recite the commands back to me and pose with spine straighten and boobs out. They laughed and they giggled when they see me.

    A little disclaimer here though: I am not a top rated photographer. I am but a wedding GWC. So, the seniors who commented here would have a lot more experiences than me. Listen to their tips. I believe they make the best point of view. Then listen to your heart to tell yourself what is good.

  7. #127
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    Default Re: Wedding Photographer Mishap: What to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Makanator View Post
    So in this type of situation, what do you do? And what measures can be taken to prevent such an incident from happening again?
    sign up as an shoot organiser and charge CS member to go to the wedding and shoot like a model shoot. non paying guests are not allowed to shoot.

    actually there is no way to "prevent" it as everyone is different and every situation is also different.

    or don't hire the pro and ask your uncle and friends to shoot FOC

  8. #128

    Default Re: Wedding Photographer Mishap: What to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Makanator View Post
    Okay i do not know whether this is the right section of the forum to post this on but i will just go ahead(Sorry moderators). Here we go(as told by my friend):

    Recently, my friend's aunt was having a wedding party and like all married couples do, hire a wedding photographer to capture this significant part of their life. Well my friend and another of his uncle brought along their DLSR along to capture some moment for personal use and storage. When they saw the wedding photographer asking the couples to pose for a couple of pictures, they decided to join in.

    However, the wedding photographer asked them to stop as he was paid to do his job. My friend and his uncle were not sure what was going on.

    The uncle then tried to talk some sense by saying that he and his nephew(my friend) can shoot together as though it's a model shoot. To further worsen the situation, the wedding photographer claims that he invented the poses the couples were doing and that my friend and his uncle should stop immediately.

    Frustrated, my friend and his uncle went back. But not to ruin the ceremonious occasion, they decided not to inform the groom and the bride.


    So in this type of situation, what do you do? And what measures can be taken to prevent such an incident from happening again?

    The photographer has clearly forgotten that a wedding is a happy occasion for all. The day before I went to shoot a wedding, my shifu (he recommended me the job) told me: "Keep everyone happy. Be flexible. People always want happy memories."

  9. #129

    Default Re: Wedding Photographer Mishap: What to do?

    yup.. wedding is a happy occassion.. and some of the guys seem to have implied that the photographer has make it a very unhappy one ? But ... in this scenario... the only person unhappy is the friend and uncle.. at that point of time.. they can either accept it.. (though find it strange that the photograher has told them to stop)..or be very unhappy about it..
    Its really up to them whther they want to be angry or not...

    Did the photographer bark at the friend and uncle, like someone has suggested ? Wat was the tone delivered to the friend or uncle ? even if things posted here was said word by word from the photographer... did the friend and uncle take it too personally and perceive it too hostile even though it was not meant to be hostile ?

    its really anybody's guess..

    maybe the photographer really lacked the PR skills to communicate to them.. but has the uncle and friend reflected on their actions ? they might not think they and hindering the photographer's job.. but it actually is ? are they pissed off cos of the photographer's words ? or cos they are told not to shoot (even if the photographer put it nicely to them, they will still be unhappy)

  10. #130

    Default Re: Wedding Photographer Mishap: What to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadpoet View Post
    A wedding will still go on without uncle bob and his camera....

    But if you are the wedding couple, would you rather Uncle Bob and Cousin Joe not appear for your wedding or change the photographer?

    I am not sure how much an uncle and cousin stand in your heart. But for me, I would prefer to have UB and CJ for my wedding.

  11. #131
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    Default Re: Wedding Photographer Mishap: What to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Xiao_shin View Post
    But if you are the wedding couple, would you rather Uncle Bob and Cousin Joe not appear for your wedding or change the photographer?

    I am not sure how much an uncle and cousin stand in your heart. But for me, I would prefer to have UB and CJ for my wedding.
    i think wat DP means is not that uncle bob and cousin joe should not attend, but for them not to shoot. correct me if i am wrong

  12. #132
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    Default Re: Wedding Photographer Mishap: What to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by leejay View Post
    The photographer has clearly forgotten that a wedding is a happy occasion for all. The day before I went to shoot a wedding, my shifu (he recommended me the job) told me: "Keep everyone happy. Be flexible. People always want happy memories."
    it is clear what the photographer did, he tried to do his job to record the happy memories. perhaps the WAY he does his job might not go down well with u (and some others here), which is fine.

    it is however NOT clear that he has "forgotten that a wedding is a happy occasion".

    how do you jump to such absurd conclusions from the given facts?

  13. #133
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    Default Re: Wedding Photographer Mishap: What to do?

    Agreed that the photographer may not have good PR skill, but the guests, they also have to be a bit 'automatic' lah. When the official photographer is doing his shoot, try not be interrupt or interfer, let the photographer finished the photo session first and the guests can tigger happy aftertat.

  14. #134
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    Default Re: Wedding Photographer Mishap: What to do?

    it may not be just uncle bob, it could be many many uncle bob at a single wedding, and also many such weddings with many uncle bobs each for a single wedding photographer. and it may even be someone very important to the couple. eventually these relatives are just laymen that is not even half as sensitive as the non-professional photographers here if they were to be shooting in weddings.

    i'm glad that i dun have to face so many tough situations professionals have to handle here and would give due respect to all those who did their jobs well, but if any professionals believe that the above situation can be cast aside as unimportant, then he probably is deeply mistaken. being able to handle a happy occasion and not feel bitter about it is probably an attribute essential for a successful wedding photographer.
    Last edited by zoossh; 27th October 2008 at 02:44 PM.

  15. #135

    Default Re: Wedding Photographer Mishap: What to do?

    I was in a similar situation with ur friend and his uncle. However, it was slightly different. My friend and I were the backup-photographers hired by the couple. We were responsible to shoot the pre-wedding scene at the groom's house, while the paid/main photographer was shooting at the bride's house and also responsible for shooting the ceremony and bridal shots. We were doing this assignments for free for several reasons..one is that the paid PG is a supposedly a well-known PG in melb who have won international awards for his shots in fashion and adverts. He's the best mate of the groom's cousin and is charging 2k for 700 photographs. This assignment is also our first assignment (so we don't have port folio for shooting wedding - we re uni students pursuing our hobby), so we didn't have concrete grounds to charge the couple when the paid pg is charging like 2.8 per pic (our initial plan was to charge 5 dollars - basically just to cover the cost incurred - like transport and stuff. And we was going to charge by per pic. Not obligated to buy any if they don't like our shots.). Basically, this shoot is more to build our port folio and prepare ourselves on what to expect to actually shoot the entire wedding. I did tell the couple to notify that paid PG about them 'hiring' us to shoot the wedding as backups and we would not get into his frames. The reply from him was that he was totally cool with it and actually did not mind to share pointers with us. On the actual day, my friend and I used zoom tele lenses and shoot mostly at 100-300mm range at the ceremony, so that we did not get into his frame. I was way behind and at the other corner taking candid shots of both ceremony and guests. My friend was shooting behind him ~ 1 m, shooting @ 200mm. I can understand how annoying uncle bob and cousin Joe/mary can be. I was shooting under 3 limitations, avoiding paid PG, guests and unsuspected standing-shoulder shooting by uncle bob or cousins. It is kind of expected anyway. Besides, the magical moments should be captured by the paid PG anyway. After the paid PG finished his shots when the couple walked down from the alter, I then walked along the concrete wall and took a couple of shots. One of the best men (supposed to be the friend of paid PG) asked why didn't he take pics of the events like what I did. He bluntly replied softly, " I don't have insurances for that. I wonder who's the official PG?" During the bridal shoots, it was agreed that we will be shooting at his back and also shooting the scene of the bridal shoot session. In addition, he was supposedly to give us pointers on wedding/bridal shooting. After 2 clicks on my cam, he told the groom to tell us to stop shooting. He said that the poses, lighting and set-up were his and we have no right to shoot. Again, my friend and I were shooting several metres behind him and without flash. In addition, we were also shooting the whole bridal shoot scenes. Like the bridesmaid and best men waiting for their turns...the PG shooting the couple, etc. It was a waste of time for us to travel so far and not to shoot anything and stood there like idiots with cameras. So we left shortly after that. We did waste quite a fair bit of time on why the sudden change of attitude... one - intimidated by the EX nikon lenses that my friend borrowed (don't he know that PG is more important than lens in making a good pic?), 2nd - i'm willing give my life away by standing on a metre high concrete slab and he don't (oh...he practically kneel for all his shots-maybe he like to be well-grounded), 3rd - he was expecting us to have pNs cameras, which doesn't make sense (the red or green af-assist lights), 4th - he really think his poses and lightings are deserved to be copyrighted. 5th - he's afraid that his reputation will be tarnished if his shots re inferior to us or just as good as ours (which should not happen if his reputation is true).

  16. #136

    Default Re: Wedding Photographer Mishap: What to do?

    I think the photographer is really too much, claiming his rights over the whole wedding. Most wedding I went has friends as photographers and all were happy to shoot and share the shots later. I can't imagine inviting these ego maniac and legalistic photographer to spoil the occassions. If it is at the photo studio, there no issue the photgrapher being the king if he want to but not the joyous wedding occassions.

    You got the name of the big ego photographer?...maybe can share so that buyer beware.

  17. #137
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    Default Re: Wedding Photographer Mishap: What to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by jOhO View Post
    it is clear what the photographer did, he tried to do his job to record the happy memories. perhaps the WAY he does his job might not go down well with u (and some others here), which is fine.

    it is however NOT clear that he has "forgotten that a wedding is a happy occasion".

    how do you jump to such absurd conclusions from the given facts?
    since the photographer is unnamed, the actual situation is probably not the main issue and it can be hypothethical just for discussion. actually how would you phrase that you invented the poses and thus the relatives should not take photographs, without tensing it up? i think it would be very difficult to phrase that in a non-intimating manner.

    i think many here have raised sufficiently good reasons to request order and cooperation from the relatives, but the statement raised here does not seem to be among those good reasons.

    i think we should segregate it into two things.
    1. photographer's delivery of job and actual interference
    2. photographer's attitude and those annoyance that do not cause actual interference.

    we are all photographers here, professional or not, and i'm sure many here takes an artist's pride in his work or hobby. but does the couple really need an artist? i dun think a wedding photographer should swallow everything just to make everyone happy, but there should be some balance between it, and perhaps there should be a differentiation and prioritity between factors as listed above.
    Last edited by zoossh; 27th October 2008 at 03:05 PM.

  18. #138
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    Default Re: Wedding Photographer Mishap: What to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by John E View Post
    You got the name of the big ego photographer?...maybe can share so that buyer beware.
    i dun think we should do that. as a hypothethical situation, i think it is good for discussion. but you can't use a one party account of the event if that can potentially tarnished one's living. besides, i'm sure in those other lifestyle or wedding-related forums, they are already making all sort of comments.

  19. #139

    Default Re: Wedding Photographer Mishap: What to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fallenphoenix View Post
    I was in a similar situation with ur friend and his uncle. However, it was slightly different. My friend and I were the backup-photographers hired by the couple. We were responsible to shoot the pre-wedding scene at the groom's house, while the paid/main photographer was shooting at the bride's house and also responsible for shooting the ceremony and bridal shots. We were doing this assignments for free for several reasons..one is that the paid PG is a supposedly a well-known PG in melb who have won international awards for his shots in fashion and adverts. He's the best mate of the groom's cousin and is charging 2k for 700 photographs. This assignment is also our first assignment (so we don't have port folio for shooting wedding - we re uni students pursuing our hobby), so we didn't have concrete grounds to charge the couple when the paid pg is charging like 2.8 per pic (our initial plan was to charge 5 dollars - basically just to cover the cost incurred - like transport and stuff. And we was going to charge by per pic. Not obligated to buy any if they don't like our shots.). Basically, this shoot is more to build our port folio and prepare ourselves on what to expect to actually shoot the entire wedding. I did tell the couple to notify that paid PG about them 'hiring' us to shoot the wedding as backups and we would not get into his frames. The reply from him was that he was totally cool with it and actually did not mind to share pointers with us. On the actual day, my friend and I used zoom tele lenses and shoot mostly at 100-300mm range at the ceremony, so that we did not get into his frame. I was way behind and at the other corner taking candid shots of both ceremony and guests. My friend was shooting behind him ~ 1 m, shooting @ 200mm. I can understand how annoying uncle bob and cousin Joe/mary can be. I was shooting under 3 limitations, avoiding paid PG, guests and unsuspected standing-shoulder shooting by uncle bob or cousins. It is kind of expected anyway. Besides, the magical moments should be captured by the paid PG anyway. After the paid PG finished his shots when the couple walked down from the alter, I then walked along the concrete wall and took a couple of shots. One of the best men (supposed to be the friend of paid PG) asked why didn't he take pics of the events like what I did. He bluntly replied softly, " I don't have insurances for that. I wonder who's the official PG?" During the bridal shoots, it was agreed that we will be shooting at his back and also shooting the scene of the bridal shoot session. In addition, he was supposedly to give us pointers on wedding/bridal shooting. After 2 clicks on my cam, he told the groom to tell us to stop shooting. He said that the poses, lighting and set-up were his and we have no right to shoot. Again, my friend and I were shooting several metres behind him and without flash. In addition, we were also shooting the whole bridal shoot scenes. Like the bridesmaid and best men waiting for their turns...the PG shooting the couple, etc. It was a waste of time for us to travel so far and not to shoot anything and stood there like idiots with cameras. So we left shortly after that. We did waste quite a fair bit of time on why the sudden change of attitude... one - intimidated by the EX nikon lenses that my friend borrowed (don't he know that PG is more important than lens in making a good pic?), 2nd - i'm willing give my life away by standing on a metre high concrete slab and he don't (oh...he practically kneel for all his shots-maybe he like to be well-grounded), 3rd - he was expecting us to have pNs cameras, which doesn't make sense (the red or green af-assist lights), 4th - he really think his poses and lightings are deserved to be copyrighted. 5th - he's afraid that his reputation will be tarnished if his shots re inferior to us or just as good as ours (which should not happen if his reputation is true).

    i guess.. an someone mentioned before.. overseas photographers are alot more strict in a way... compared to the locals.. I even heard of some american photographers who put it down in contract.. that no one else is supposed to shoot in the wedding..

    anyway... as mentioned by some of the wedding photographers in this thread.. most of us are cool about other people shooting during the wedding.. I personally have made friends with some of these friends/relatives shooting alongside me.. and some of them are quite auto.. except for some exceptions..

    like i mentioned.. did the uncle n friend.. reflect on themselves also ?
    we really do not know wats the scenario that has happened ..
    3 people shoot together and treat it like model shoot ? ( refer to TS's first post)
    ask those guys who joined models shoots before.. how difficult it is to shoot together ?
    and for wedding.. where we are to work in very tight time frames sometimes.. 3 people shooting together is definitely NO NO..

    maybe most of us like wedding photography.. cos its a happy occassion.. do u actually think any of the photographers want to spoil the mood ? goodness..
    but if there was really unhappiness.. is the uncle n friend not at fault also ?

    everyone talked abt the ego of that photographer.. but did the uncle n friend have a bruised ego too ? thats y they were not happy ?

    so many people say the photographer spoil the occassion .. in wat way is it spoilt ? were the couple and family members unhappy ? onli the friend and uncle are unhappy.. n this uncle.. is he a close relative of the couple ?

  20. #140
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    Default Re: Wedding Photographer Mishap: What to do?

    Photographer may sounded rude to friend and his uncle, but, we have to understand that he is trying to do his job right, which was to have the 100% attention of his subjects aka his clients inorder to capture the best images of them on their big day.

    On the other hand, uncle and friend also have every right to shoot but why can't they shoot after the photographer has completed his session with the couple? Want join in and treat it as a group shoot is a bit too much coz they may unintentionally 'distrubing' the official photographer from doing his job right. Btw, I have joined some CS group photo shoots before and I know how hard it is to have the subject full attention.

    Don't forget, 'IF' something screw up with the wedding photos due to the interruption of uncle and friend, I believe the couple are not going to blame it on uncle and friend, the photographer will kena coz he is paid.
    Last edited by Newguy69; 27th October 2008 at 05:25 PM.

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