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Thread: Wedding Photographer Mishap: What to do?

  1. #221
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    Default Re: Wedding Photographer Mishap: What to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Priscilia View Post
    I tend to agree with your slant of argument so far. I really appreciate where you are coming from. Ok, perhaps minus the "stupid" part which I think is too strong a description to use.

    Maybe it's really the typical kiasuism at play in Singapore. And having studied and worked for a while overseas, I do think its indeed the insecurities of people here in general. You know, the way we've been brought up -- if I advise my classmate too much with her homework, I will LOSE OUT to her.

    As some rightly said, give the couple a break, man. A wedding is a happy occasion. It's natural to expect friends and relatives to be taking shots of the couple all the time. Imagine yourself to be a non-photographer who is not into photography, and it's your favorite friend's or niece's wedding. It's intuitive that you will want to whip out your cam to get that shot.

    I find some local photographers who have been posting here seem to have that "scared to lose mentality". No offence. I'm not saying Go ahead, let Uncle Tan (I prefer this as Bob sounds too Caucasian!) and Auntie Goh block your view to the point that you can't do your job. I think you have to know when to step in to let them know they've gone overboard. But here, what's the big deal really?

    Let me cite 2 analogies to see if my point comes thru:

    1. You travel overseas and in front of you is a beautiful landscape, you set up your tripod, and gleefully imagine you will get that kick a** shot to impress fellow CS when you return to Singapore. Then suddenly, you see people by your side, with their digicams, never mind if they're just tiny compacts or DSLRs better than yours. What are you going to do? Get jealous and chase them away? Tell them, "Hey guys, Buzz off! The landscape in front of us is mine!" Or tell them, "Quick, go ahead, shoot all you want. Cos after that, it's my turn." Ridiculous right?

    There is a high chance that those people around you will get quite similar shots to what you compose. Or may not. You as the photographer, how do you REACT? If you are scared someone else is going to get a similar shot, it's clear your skills are not good enough and you don't have the mentality of a top photographer. Top photographers seriously can't be bothered the other people seemingly trying to vie for the same shot as them. Cos photography is an art. No matter how well you can copy the Sunflower, you can't be as famous Van Gough. Why do you think good singers never become famous even though they can sing well top hits by the original singers? There are other factors involved.

    2. Have you seen photographers, pros or amateurs alike, whose flashes go Pop Pop Pop when a celebrity comes to town? If you are the official or press photographer, are you going to chase the amateurs away and say, Hey, stop stealing my shots!

    And I'm sure many here are avid, non-official photographers who go shooting at concerts, sports, catwalk events, and the recently concluded F1 race here. Aren't you being one of Uncle Tan yourself in those situations?

    Coming back to the wedding scenario, unless Uncle Tan is being a nuisance and your shadow by following you around, I don't think you have any right to tell him off. If you are afraid he's going to "steal" your shots, that's plainly jealousy and kiasuism at work for me. Maybe some kind of paranoia or insecurity.

    Think about it: Is Uncle Tan just happening to be shooting at that point in time or is he following you all the way and get exact shots as you? You are the pro. Are you not confident enough that at the end of the day, you are the one who will provide the complete collection of nice pictures to the couple? If you think those few shots of Uncle Tan's will make you lose business, then clearly, you are not up to standards. Just for the record, it's quite impossible that even when two photographers stand side by side will they get very identical angles or poses. I thought this is a known fact?

    Anyway, I think you guys really have the energy to go on and on with this discussion! I've enjoyed and am amused at some of the arguments that sprout out by others. I do feel it's gone quite out of hand somehow. We don't know the exact scenario of what happened between Uncle Tan and that photographer as related by the original poster of this thread. So it's better not to speculate so much.

    As a final note, I can't help but read with disapproval some of those so-called pros who seem to think highly of themselves. I mean, your are ranked now among many of the normal pros. What is going to happen to you in 10 years time (a top notch photographer or just a "cameraman"?) or how big a money you will earn is irrelevant to this discussion. Good photographers never brag themselves. Their works and well mannered attitude speak for themselves. And they go on from there.
    i like the way u analyse it.

    to add on, in the first case, usually by asking, we get our pictures done rather than everyone fighting for their right. in singapore, in a merging lane, traffic are known to fight til the last minute, til someone blinks first....this slows traffic unnecessarily and accidents caused delay everyone. however, in other countries like new zealand, people readily take turns to move ahead in a merging lane....traffic is smooth, though there are always the extremes.

    and like what vince said, look at the comments and u know who is assured of their abilities and who is not. some just need more time.
    G

  2. #222
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    Default Re: Wedding Photographer Mishap: What to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by soeypixels View Post
    they can take the same photos at the same time and place
    but the end results will be different

    thats the difference btw uncle bob and a paid photographer
    well-said
    G

  3. #223
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Wedding Photographer Mishap: What to do?

    Well I guess some photographers forget who's the customer and who's the supplier. And how some are better businessmen and others are better artists (yea we all know the typical "I want my way, not the clients' way" from artists). And it is the better businessmen with good customer management and PR skills, who may sometimes not even be as good a photographer as the artist, who in the end, actually ends up earning more money . And on the other hand, you have the poor starving artist who sticks to his guns no matter what.

  4. #224
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    Default Re: Wedding Photographer Mishap: What to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    Well I guess some photographers forget who's the customer and who's the supplier. And how some are better businessmen and others are better artists (yea we all know the typical "I want my way, not the clients' way" from artists). And it is the better businessmen with good customer management and PR skills, who may sometimes not even be as good a photographer as the artist, who in the end, actually ends up earning more money . And on the other hand, you have the poor starving artist who sticks to his guns no matter what.
    true....there is only one type of artists/singers/photographers who can truly proudly proclaim they do things their way and yet survive....they are the hobbyists. people who may or may not be skilled but do not depend on their customers' payments for their living.

    professionals/freelance do things the way customers wants (as they call it market demand) because if they dun deliver it, the customers wun pay. some will say the customers pay them to have a free artistic rein...but ultimately the truth is that the customer wants them to do it their way. so it is still customers that matter at the end.

    having said that, i dun condone guests who insist to barge in and disrupt photo sessions despite requests (read requests not demands) not to by the photographer...
    G

  5. #225

    Default Re: Wedding Photographer Mishap: What to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    lol, wasting couple's money to ask you to take a snap shot using PnS....

    anyway, if someone asking me to help to snap using their PnS, I smile and help them, when returning the camera, I tell them first shot is FREE, second shot onward is $20 per shot..... strangely, no one will ask me to help again...heheheh
    HAHAHA
    i used it today and it works man

    tml i tell u guys a story of having 5 uncle bob/susan
    super irritating

  6. #226

    Default Re: Wedding Photographer Mishap: What to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Lim View Post
    Have we established that the photographer on that day was rude? Have you been reading all the post from page 4 till now?

    Is the issue stealing the pose? Dude, i mentioned it as an example. Get over it. The main issue is not stealing the pose. Its more then that.

    How has the photographer's behaviour been established? I read through all 10 post from TS and none of them mentioned that the Main photographer's behaviour and attitude has been established.

    So i'll put it straight forward now. the only stand i have in this is, i have no problems with uncle bob or cousin joe shooting along side with me. But at the same time i have also requested that they stop shooting via the couple. The ONLY time i will do this is when uncle bob has repeatedly cut in front of my lens during crucial moments. So stop assuming over EXAMPLES given by me as word.
    i don't think i'm the one assuming when u are the one bringing in other scenarios than that described by the TS. to be fair, u aren't the only one listing down these other examples. but i am referring specifically to the scenario in the first post. one-sided though it may be

    the main issue GENERALLY isn't stealing the pose, granted, but i wasn't referring to that.

    some "pro" wedding photogs must have gotten offended and really defensive

    anyway, if u care to read my posting, i do agree with most here that getting in the way or distracting the subjects or the main photog is a no-no.

    also, i did not say it is wrong to tell off people who cut in front of u. no need to get so defensive. i would do the same too if these pple repeatedly get in the way

    u dun mind pple shooting with u? good! that's rather friendlier than a few other folks here. but
    i do understand their concerns, and yes, i did read thru the entire list of postings though i find it too much of a hassle to pick out and reply to those postings.

    anyway, i'm just another cousin joe with a decent camera la

  7. #227

    Default Re: Wedding Photographer Mishap: What to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Priscilia View Post
    I tend to agree with your slant of argument so far. I really appreciate where you are coming from. Ok, perhaps minus the "stupid" part which I think is too strong a description to use.

    Maybe it's really the typical kiasuism at play in Singapore. And having studied and worked for a while overseas, I do think its indeed the insecurities of people here in general. You know, the way we've been brought up -- if I advise my classmate too much with her homework, I will LOSE OUT to her.

    As some rightly said, give the couple a break, man. A wedding is a happy occasion. It's natural to expect friends and relatives to be taking shots of the couple all the time. Imagine yourself to be a non-photographer who is not into photography, and it's your favorite friend's or niece's wedding. It's intuitive that you will want to whip out your cam to get that shot.

    I find some local photographers who have been posting here seem to have that "scared to lose mentality". No offence. I'm not saying Go ahead, let Uncle Tan (I prefer this as Bob sounds too Caucasian!) and Auntie Goh block your view to the point that you can't do your job. I think you have to know when to step in to let them know they've gone overboard. But here, what's the big deal really?

    Let me cite 2 analogies to see if my point comes thru:

    1. You travel overseas and in front of you is a beautiful landscape, you set up your tripod, and gleefully imagine you will get that kick a** shot to impress fellow CS when you return to Singapore. Then suddenly, you see people by your side, with their digicams, never mind if they're just tiny compacts or DSLRs better than yours. What are you going to do? Get jealous and chase them away? Tell them, "Hey guys, Buzz off! The landscape in front of us is mine!" Or tell them, "Quick, go ahead, shoot all you want. Cos after that, it's my turn." Ridiculous right?

    There is a high chance that those people around you will get quite similar shots to what you compose. Or may not. You as the photographer, how do you REACT? If you are scared someone else is going to get a similar shot, it's clear your skills are not good enough and you don't have the mentality of a top photographer. Top photographers seriously can't be bothered the other people seemingly trying to vie for the same shot as them. Cos photography is an art. No matter how well you can copy the Sunflower, you can't be as famous Van Gough. Why do you think good singers never become famous even though they can sing well top hits by the original singers? There are other factors involved.

    2. Have you seen photographers, pros or amateurs alike, whose flashes go Pop Pop Pop when a celebrity comes to town? If you are the official or press photographer, are you going to chase the amateurs away and say, Hey, stop stealing my shots!

    And I'm sure many here are avid, non-official photographers who go shooting at concerts, sports, catwalk events, and the recently concluded F1 race here. Aren't you being one of Uncle Tan yourself in those situations?

    Coming back to the wedding scenario, unless Uncle Tan is being a nuisance and your shadow by following you around, I don't think you have any right to tell him off. If you are afraid he's going to "steal" your shots, that's plainly jealousy and kiasuism at work for me. Maybe some kind of paranoia or insecurity.

    Think about it: Is Uncle Tan just happening to be shooting at that point in time or is he following you all the way and get exact shots as you? You are the pro. Are you not confident enough that at the end of the day, you are the one who will provide the complete collection of nice pictures to the couple? If you think those few shots of Uncle Tan's will make you lose business, then clearly, you are not up to standards. Just for the record, it's quite impossible that even when two photographers stand side by side will they get very identical angles or poses. I thought this is a known fact?

    Anyway, I think you guys really have the energy to go on and on with this discussion! I've enjoyed and am amused at some of the arguments that sprout out by others. I do feel it's gone quite out of hand somehow. We don't know the exact scenario of what happened between Uncle Tan and that photographer as related by the original poster of this thread. So it's better not to speculate so much.

    As a final note, I can't help but read with disapproval some of those so-called pros who seem to think highly of themselves. I mean, your are ranked now among many of the normal pros. What is going to happen to you in 10 years time (a top notch photographer or just a "cameraman"?) or how big a money you will earn is irrelevant to this discussion. Good photographers never brag themselves. Their works and well mannered attitude speak for themselves. And they go on from there.

    I agree totally, u put it across nicely

  8. #228

    Default Re: Wedding Photographer Mishap: What to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yoke View Post
    I agree totally, u put it across nicely
    i agree too... AND if if i hear from frens or relatives about a so-and-so photographer who says such things at weddings, i'll be sure to spread the word not to hire his services in the future. mouth-marketing at its best!

  9. #229

    Default Re: Wedding Photographer Mishap: What to do?

    The uncle then tried to talk some sense by saying that he and his nephew(my friend) can shoot together as though it's a model shoot. To further worsen the situation, the wedding photographer claims that he invented the poses the couples were doing and that my friend and his uncle should stop immediately.
    bannkroll management

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