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Thread: Wedding Photographer Mishap: What to do?

  1. #181

    Default Re: Wedding Photographer Mishap: What to do?

    where's the TS??
    Eat breath LIVERPOOL!!!

  2. #182
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    Default Re: Wedding Photographer Mishap: What to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotoudavid View Post
    where's the TS??
    Taking a backseat in this debate I guess?
    Any wrong words could trigger the bullet from supporters of either side of argument.

  3. #183
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    Default Re: Wedding Photographer Mishap: What to do?

    Side's I am currently having a fever and not in the right condition to reply too. Sorry if anyone here wants my view.

  4. #184

    Default Re: Wedding Photographer Mishap: What to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by canturn View Post
    I agree fully that there's no such thing as original/ patented poses.

    However, for discussion sake, put yourself in this situation (and this is for everyone to think about, not just clipper79) You as the main photographer takes pain and effort and found a spot of killer lighting and sets up the shot. One of the relatives or friends who happens to be a photographer or someone building a portfolio comes over and takes a picture of what you've composed. He used the shot for portfoilo on his website, and to make it even better, he wins an award from it and get all the due recognition and credits for it (you should be quite flattered that your idea has won an award!) Who gets the credits in the end?

    As for having to take a few hundred shots for one to work, you'll be surprised how much it takes to work on your subject. Sometimes it takes me 4 shots to get the right one, and for some, er, in multiples of 10 (of course, in situations that permits me to do that). It's not so much an insecurity issue, but a strive towards perfection :P

    It's really an issue of "who gets the credit" right? Man, what a narrow bunch of souls.

  5. #185

    Default Re: Wedding Photographer Mishap: What to do?

    Wow... really sounds like a personal agenda against canturn.

    I'm not sure if the whole thread is going off topic already. Any Mods care to review and see?

  6. #186
    Senior Member zoossh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wedding Photographer Mishap: What to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dream Merchant View Post
    I don't know about sensationalism, but I did see a few professionals from various industries post here, as well as many others who are probably not involved as professionals in the industry become, as someone implied, 'overnight experts' in the matter, sad to say, and it actually appears that many members who responded in this thread seem hell bent to some extent or another, regardless of how nicely or not so nicely they have stated their opinions to lynch, condemn, deride, ridicule or generally wack the professional wedding photographer and that makes me wonder if this was true reflection of feelings, or a herd mentality thing?

    Is it any wonder then that non-photographers and the general public here in Singapore take so awfully long to regard and respect photography in a professional light, and act accordingly?
    i think the opinions of the non-professional photographers and the laymen are just as important, and shouldn't be ridiculed as overnight experts becos similarly labelling can be put on professionals. everyone attends weddings and can share their perspective from a different role. that is the basis of a balanced view.

    whether the point of views are put across nicely and appropriately is again another issue, but just as important for a healthy forum.

  7. #187
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    Default Re: Wedding Photographer Mishap: What to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by lancey View Post
    It's really an issue of "who gets the credit" right? Man, what a narrow bunch of souls.
    Who gets the credit is not important to you, then it's fine by me, really. I care about people taking the easy way out from your own work, I care about making sure due credit is given to my work. Why? Because this is what differentiate the top end pros from the average Joe - speak to any of them, look at their T&C in their contracts and you'll see how much pride they take in their work and how they demand for the due credits. Well, I don't consider myself as a top end pro, but any aspiring professionals should start to work towards these practices, I'm pretty sure there'll be some here who'll make it there.

    So lancey, on what grounds do you say that's being narrow?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Lim View Post
    Wow... really sounds like a personal agenda against canturn.

    I'm not sure if the whole thread is going off topic already. Any Mods care to review and see?
    QUOTE=Chris Lim;4477567]Wow... really sounds like a personal agenda against canturn.

    I'm not sure if the whole thread is going off topic already. Any Mods care to review and see?[/QUOTE]

    I don't take these personally, to be frank. I'm here to share my perspective as a professional, not forcing anyone to buy what I have to say. If people wants ridicule or insinuate anything, let them. There will always be armchair critics with their 2-liner remarks, not just in this thread, well, their response just simply show how much they actually know or don't know.

    I believe what everyone has to say will shed some lights in things that we tend to overlook, at the same timing opening another can of worms

  8. #188
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    Default Re: Wedding Photographer Mishap: What to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by lancey View Post
    i personally feel the photog had every right to kick your fren and his uncle's Ss...in this situation. If it were me, i'd throw my camera in their faces.
    Quote Originally Posted by lancey View Post
    U r not in the position to judge whos's right and wrong in the uncle bob fiasco but u could differentiate an ah beng wedding photog-like behaviour from a non ah beng(like yourself presumably) photog-like behaviour FROM THE WAY PEOPLE RESPOND HERE?

    give me a break.
    Yes, you're sooo right.

    So what sort of wedding photographer does that make you when you throw your camera in their faces?

  9. #189
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Wedding Photographer Mishap: What to do?

    The sort who ends up spending his next immediate future in court and behind bars.

  10. #190

    Default Re: Wedding Photographer Mishap: What to do?

    haha.. the last few posts has been entertaining

  11. #191

    Default Re: Wedding Photographer Mishap: What to do?

    Dun need to care those shooting besides till they stepped over and hinder the job, so dun need to stress so much ant been pro or not.

    Anyway, all welcome to shoot wedding and taste the taste to experience it.
    Eat breath LIVERPOOL!!!

  12. #192

    Default Re: Wedding Photographer Mishap: What to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotoudavid View Post
    Dun need to care those shooting besides till they stepped over and hinder the job, so dun need to stress so much ant been pro or not.

    Anyway, all welcome to shoot wedding and taste the taste to experience it.
    Exactly why, I don't shoot weddings, nor do I ever bring a camera to a friend's wedding.
    deadpoet
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  13. #193

    Default Re: Wedding Photographer Mishap: What to do?

    yes you are a guest of the couple and the pro is an employee of the couple, in my opinion, he needs to be as polite and courteous to the other guests as to the couple. not letting anyone else take pics as a way of defending your territory is pretty sad as the pro must not have very much confidence in his work, as long as the uncle was not in the way or his flash was causing problems then i can not imagine there would be a problem, and i were the man paying for this guy to be there , I would have been along the lines of outraged that he would treat the guest poorly.

    pros need to remember that they are in the service industry not just the photography industry, and customer service is very important.

  14. #194
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    Default Re: Wedding Photographer Mishap: What to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    Hmm, I have never encountered a case or law applicable in Singapore which distinguishes between non-commercial purposes and commercial purposes, as far as copyright is concerned.

    And one other thing which I have yet to be proven wrong about, there simply is no legal basis as yet established in Singapore to say that model releases are required.
    Not sure about the actual law but look at it this way:

    A commericial shoot
    Because of someone copying the shoot and selling it, $ is lost. Photographer sues for loss due to your unauthorised action. If photographer is able to prove his case and court agreeds, court award damage base on the loss suffered.

    A non commericial shoot ( ie; a weddeing )
    Though someone copy the pose. Photographer still get paid in full. There's no $ loss to the photographer. Even if the photographer sues for copying his pose and wins the case. How do court award damage as there's no loss of $ ( remember, photographer still gets paid in full ), no harm was done and the guest are invited by the couple ( the photographer's employer ), so it'll be a hard case to fight.
    I get paid more shooting part time ...... damn, I should find more time to shoot part time

  15. #195
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    Default Re: Wedding Photographer Mishap: What to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by jOhO View Post
    on a more practical note, there will always be cameras/bobs around. there is no hard and fast rule of "how many other cameras are allowed and where should they stand". but when u're in the field, it's very obvious to the experienced photographers when this line is crossed.

    and back to the topic of "stealing poses". if someone is "stealing my pose", don't i have every right to extend courtesy and let them shoot FIRST, them being esteemed guests/relatives of the couple? whether this action of mine is to the dismay of the couple i'm not sure, but i'm just being polite. i'll stand back (or shoot other things) till they are done. nothing wrong on my part.
    Have to agreed with Joho on this. This is what sets the Professional Photographer apart from the Photographer.
    I get paid more shooting part time ...... damn, I should find more time to shoot part time

  16. #196
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    Default Re: Wedding Photographer Mishap: What to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by yqt View Post
    Not sure about the actual law but look at it this way:

    A commericial shoot
    Because of someone copying the shoot and selling it, $ is lost. Photographer sues for loss due to your unauthorised action. If photographer is able to prove his case and court agreeds, court award damage base on the loss suffered.

    A non commericial shoot ( ie; a weddeing )
    Though someone copy the pose. Photographer still get paid in full. There's no $ loss to the photographer. Even if the photographer sues for copying his pose and wins the case. How do court award damage as there's no loss of $ ( remember, photographer still gets paid in full ), no harm was done and the guest are invited by the couple ( the photographer's employer ), so it'll be a hard case to fight.
    true....to add on,

    regardless of damage suffered/awarded or commercial/non-commercial use, the copyright owner (we are assuming there is something that can be copyrighted in the first place which obviously doesn't apply here) can get court orders for the copyright violator to turn over all copied works and derivatives.....

    the issue of awarding legal costs to the copyright owner is also another issue, not quite sure what is the basis for awarding costs....
    G

  17. #197
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Wedding Photographer Mishap: What to do?

    Ah, well I was referring to liability, and you are referring to assessment of damages. Both are distinct concepts in law.

    In your initial post, I read it to mean liability. Since you said "can sue" or "cannot sue".

    If however you said that "It would be economically more viable to sue in if infringement occurs in a commercial use case, and not so economically viable to sue in a non-commerical use infringement case", then its a different situation.

    As an analogy, for the same facts and legal situation, it is more economically viable to sue a big corporation with deep pockets than it is to sue a man of straw who has no money.

    However, both of these do not detract from the fact that liability will be found, whether or not the defendant has money, or whether or not the defendant used it in a commercial setting or non-commercial setting.

    I hope that this helps.


    Quote Originally Posted by yqt View Post
    Not sure about the actual law but look at it this way:

    A commericial shoot
    Because of someone copying the shoot and selling it, $ is lost. Photographer sues for loss due to your unauthorised action. If photographer is able to prove his case and court agreeds, court award damage base on the loss suffered.

    A non commericial shoot ( ie; a weddeing )
    Though someone copy the pose. Photographer still get paid in full. There's no $ loss to the photographer. Even if the photographer sues for copying his pose and wins the case. How do court award damage as there's no loss of $ ( remember, photographer still gets paid in full ), no harm was done and the guest are invited by the couple ( the photographer's employer ), so it'll be a hard case to fight.

  18. #198

    Default Re: Wedding Photographer Mishap: What to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by canturn View Post
    Yes, you're sooo right.

    So what sort of wedding photographer does that make you when you throw your camera in their faces?
    if i throw u mean?

  19. #199

    Default Re: Wedding Photographer Mishap: What to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by canturn View Post
    Who gets the credit is not important to you, then it's fine by me, really. I care about people taking the easy way out from your own work, I care about making sure due credit is given to my work. Why? Because this is what differentiate the top end pros from the average Joe ..
    that was exactly what i said. People like u cared only about the credit, people like me probably dun. To me that's narrow. To u it's not. That's why we r different. A good thing i supposed.

    OH, Didn't u say :

    " Well, I don't consider myself as a top end pro.."????

    but now you want to differentiate yourself from the average Joe?? because credit means a bomb to you? Make up your mind what u r .

  20. #200
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    Default Re: Wedding Photographer Mishap: What to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by lancey View Post
    that was exactly what i said. People like u cared only about the credit, people like me probably dun. To me that's narrow. To u it's not. That's why we r different. A good thing i supposed.

    OH, Didn't u say :

    " Well, I don't consider myself as a top end pro.."????

    but now you want to differentiate yourself from the average Joe?? because credit means a bomb to you? Make up your mind what u r .
    You are going really OT. And your tone of voice and the manner makes me wonder what's the intention behind your posts.

    AND, just for clarification sake, I'm certainly not a top end pro who can charge $23k a wedding yet, but I'm working towards it

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