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Thread: third party vs main party (canon, nikon)

  1. #41

    Default Re: And another thing...

    Quote Originally Posted by camerax View Post
    read my post above. i already aplogized if i offend anybody here in anyway. thats not enough??

    my first post, maybe it sounds so aggressive. and i said sorry, not enough?
    insincere....
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  2. #42
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    Default Re: third party vs main party (canon, nikon)

    It's not the camera, it's the person behind the camera!



    Haha!

    Actually, what I mount on my camera, why you care?

    Similarly, I wouldn't really give two hoots if your lens front element was made out of an 82mm-diameter polished diamond, or a toilet roll with green cellophane paper scotched-taped to the front.

    Take it easy people. Take your camera out. Take more pictures.
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  3. #43
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    Default Re: And another thing...

    Quote Originally Posted by camerax View Post
    read my post above. i already aplogized if i offend anybody here in anyway. thats not enough??

    my first post, maybe it sounds so aggressive. and i said sorry, not enough?
    Why don't you also say that we misunderstood your original statement?
    Sony Alpha system user. www.pbase.com/synapseman

  4. #44

    Default Re: third party vs main party (canon, nikon)

    Quote Originally Posted by Headshotzx View Post
    Ups for the best answer to the thread. Well said.

    EDIT: Did you know? Some enthusiasts shoot with 2 x 1D mark3 cameras, f/2.8 trinity lenses, 300mm f/2.8 to 600mm f/4 lenses just because they can.
    Frankly, I dun really see the point of arguing over Canon/Nikon Lenses versus Tamron/Tokina/Sigma 3rd party lenses. To me, it's just a matter of personal choice, very similar to whether you eat a $2 plate of Chicken rice at the Hawker Centre or a $16 plate of chicken rice at Chatterbox.

    Arguments like this serve no purpose and generally lead no where...

    Just a side note: I realised that I have spent close to $120K on vacations over the last 5 years...That should probably be sufficient for me to buy the Canon 1DsMKIII and all the Canon L Lenses... But right now I only have a 2nd hand Canon 40D and a second hand Tamron 17-50f2.8...

  5. #45

    Default Re: third party vs main party (canon, nikon)

    Quote Originally Posted by lsisaxon View Post
    If you need to know, I have a recently produced Sigma EX 24/1.8 which has front focusing problems the day I bought it and even though it has been sent back to Sigma for calibration, the front focus still exist and even with bodies like D300 having AF Fine tune, it could not correct the problem because it's different across the distance scale. And the severity of the front focus is also different with different bodies.......

    Some people swear by 3rd party lenses (ZF).
    this is actually that also scare me buying sigma lens : ) they have quality control poroblem.
    i heard that the paint is also well known for peeling off, yaikks




    Quote Originally Posted by Headshotzx View Post
    Hey, lay off the arrogant attitude. You won't be taken very nicely here with these sorts of remarks.

    Lets compare-

    #1)
    Tamron 17-50 f/2.8 (S$~550+) vs Canon EF-S 17-55 f/2.8IS (S$~1300+)
    Sharpness: Similar
    Contrast: Canon wins
    AF Speed: Canon wins
    AF accuracy: Canon wins when it's low-contrast (for some reason)
    AF noise: Canon wins
    Built: Canon wins
    IS: Canon has
    Price: Tamron wins

    So, Canon wins 6 out of 8 points, with Tamron winning 1 out of 8, and 1 draw.
    Factors that affect the image itself: Sharpness, Contrast, AF Speed/Accuracy and IS. Canon wins 4 out of 5.

    #2)
    Tamron 70-200 f/2.8 vs Canon 70-200 f/2.8IS
    Sharpness: Canon
    Contrast: Canon
    AF Speed: Canon (USM)
    AF Accuracy: Unknown to me
    AF noise: Canon (USM)
    Built: Draw
    IS: Canon has
    Price: Tamron wins

    Canon: 5/7, Tamron 1/7, Draw 1/7
    Image quality factors: Canon wins all

    Anything else you want to know?

    If you're talking about manual focus lenses like Carl Zeiss / Leica etc etc, sure, they'd win. But I do understand that you're referring to the lenses that AF, so Canon almost always wins when it comes to the image quality itself. So what if I don't have money for Canon but I'm picky with the image quality? I save up. If I'm okay with not getting ideal IQ, just want "to capture the image" (Note: I didn't say Make the photograph, I said capture); then you can go for alternatives.

    Chances are-- the AF system of Canon / Nikon lenses with USM / AF-S will trump Sigma/Tamron/Tokina lenses.

    A bicycle and a car can get you to work. If you have money, go for the car so you don't need to work so hard. If you don't, go the economical and ride the bike to work.
    If you have the money for original Nikon lenses, go for it. If you don't, go for 3rd party brands if you are okay with what they offer. If you don't have enough money for either, don't shoot the picture. You said you're not a pro (and trust me, Professionals don't have your crappy attitude), so your food on the table won't depend on the images you take.

    buddy, your argument is very well presented.

    and trust me, if i was a pro. i wouldnt mind to spend much money for nikon or canon. the pics i took, will generate income for me, so always go for the best : )

    but i have to say that i REALLY like the way you present your point .

  6. #46

    Default Re: And another thing...

    Quote Originally Posted by shiruikage View Post
    insincere....
    alrighht, whatever man. i dont care what you think. like you are better than me anyway.

    who are you to judge me?? you want me to bow ?

  7. #47
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    Default Re: third party vs main party (canon, nikon)

    So uh.. Case closed? Lol.

    So, in summary:

    Why original brand compared to 3rd party?
    - Image quality, AF and built
    - Assurance that it will work
    - Much lower depreciation rate: General trend is that the Canon 70-200 f/2.8IS depreciates about 5-10% for every cosmetic grade lowering (CS guidelines), while lenses like the Sigma 70-200 f/2.8 will depreciate about twice that rate, about 10-20%, especially since Sigma has their peeling issue.
    Our pictures are our footprints. Itís the best way to tell people we were here - JoeMcnally | Flickr

  8. #48

    Default Re: third party vs main party (canon, nikon)

    Quote Originally Posted by camerax View Post
    and trust me, if i was a pro. i wouldnt mind to spend much money for nikon or canon. the pics i took, will generate income for me, so always go for the best : )
    this again is the same uselessly subjective argument. Why don't you use P&S until you become a pro? BECAUSE, even without being a pro, you *personally*, *by your choice*, and *by your preference*, *without regard to what all P&S users think*, prefer SLR quality.

    Two words: personal choice.

  9. #49
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    Default Re: third party vs main party (canon, nikon)

    TS, maybe it is better to close this thread, if not, it will be going nowhere.

  10. #50
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    Default Re: third party vs main party (canon, nikon)

    Quote Originally Posted by Headshotzx View Post
    So uh.. Case closed? Lol.

    So, in summary:

    Why original brand compared to 3rd party?
    - Image quality, AF and built
    - Assurance that it will work
    - Much lower depreciation rate: General trend is that the Canon 70-200 f/2.8IS depreciates about 5-10% for every cosmetic grade lowering (CS guidelines), while lenses like the Sigma 70-200 f/2.8 will depreciate about twice that rate, about 10-20%, especially since Sigma has their peeling issue.
    And girls will be more attracted to the man who buys original-brand lenses.

    Really. It's been scientifically proven.
    Last edited by synapseman; 21st October 2008 at 12:22 AM.
    Sony Alpha system user. www.pbase.com/synapseman

  11. #51

    Default Re: third party vs main party (canon, nikon)

    Quote Originally Posted by synapseman View Post
    And girls will be more attracted to the man who buys original-brand lenses.

    Really. It's been scientifically proven.
    LOL, yeah i agree. i never experience it myself. but i heard about it : )




    Quote Originally Posted by Headshotzx View Post
    So uh.. Case closed? Lol.

    So, in summary:

    Why original brand compared to 3rd party?
    - Image quality, AF and built
    - Assurance that it will work
    - Much lower depreciation rate: General trend is that the Canon 70-200 f/2.8IS depreciates about 5-10% for every cosmetic grade lowering (CS guidelines), while lenses like the Sigma 70-200 f/2.8 will depreciate about twice that rate, about 10-20%, especially since Sigma has their peeling issue.
    oh yeah, actually i almost forget discussing about the depreciation issue.

    how bad is the resale value of third party lens in general? by how much lower they depreciate? compared to main party?
    like twice more?

    in USA, i heard that you can actually buy nikon or canon lens and use it for many months and can sell it back for ALMOST THE SAME PRICE that you paid for it. AWESOME, EH.

  12. #52

    Default Re: third party vs main party (canon, nikon)

    Quote Originally Posted by camerax View Post
    LOL, yeah i agree. i never experience it myself. but i heard about it : )






    oh yeah, actually i almost forget discussing about the depreciation issue.

    how bad is the resale value of third party lens in general? by how much lower they depreciate? compared to main party?
    like twice more?

    in USA, i heard that you can actually buy nikon or canon lens and use it for many months and can sell it back for ALMOST THE SAME PRICE that you paid for it. AWESOME, EH.

    sincerely, camerax, all these talks wun help u to produce good pictures. wun even help a bit. not at all.

    why not hit the field/street w your camera, instead of worrying X vs Y, apple vs orange, bush vs osama ... ...

  13. #53

    Default Re: Once upon a time...

    Quote Originally Posted by synapseman View Post
    ...I also thought the same way.

    If a Sigma is 1/3 the price of an original-brand lens, does that meant the original-brand lens is 3x as superior?
    This is a very good statement.
    If only we can apply maths to everything in life..

  14. #54
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    Default Re: third party vs main party (canon, nikon)

    Quote Originally Posted by attap seed View Post
    why not hit the field/street w your camera, instead of worrying X vs Y, apple vs orange, bush vs osama ... ...
    Ehh-- Bush vs Obama la.. Lol..

    In the US, they have 30 day return policy. So basically you can 'rent' a lens for 30 days and all you'd need to do is pay for the shipping and give some crappy excuse like "the lens isn't performing to my expectations, please give me a refund".

    I already gave you the depreciation approximation for both.
    Our pictures are our footprints. Itís the best way to tell people we were here - JoeMcnally | Flickr

  15. #55

    Default Re: third party vs main party (canon, nikon)

    My personal opinion is that when you buy a lens/camera/flash etc, you shouldn't even be considering depreciation. A Camera/lens/flash etc is to be used for the medium to long term which in today's photography terms is 1 year +. After taking countless photos (good or bad) with the lens and then selling it to fund for a better lens, will you actually be concerned about how much your lens has depreciated?

    In terms of buying lenses, for me at least the most important criterias are price and quality (build, optic, AF accuracy). For any lens that you buy, there will definately be a price/quality trade off. You just need to deicde whether it is worth it or not to buy the more expensive lens, period.

    Anyway, on the issue of depreciation, a 10% depreciation doesn't mean anything unless you take the cost of the lens into consideration. Absolute depreciation would be a better guage to use in this case since TS is probably more worried about losing more $$ when he sells his lens.

    E.g. 10% depreciation on Canon 17-55f2.78 lens is $130 while 10% depreciation on the Tamron 15-50f2.8 is only $60.

  16. #56
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    Default Re: third party vs main party (canon, nikon)

    Quote Originally Posted by teebs View Post
    ...
    Very true. There's aren't any more reasons for camerax to be discussing the positives or negatives of third party lenses anymore. Everything's been laid out for him already.
    Our pictures are our footprints. Itís the best way to tell people we were here - JoeMcnally | Flickr

  17. #57

    Default Re: third party vs main party (canon, nikon)

    Quote Originally Posted by camerax View Post
    this is actually that also scare me buying sigma lens : ) they have quality control poroblem.
    i heard that the paint is also well known for peeling off, yaikks
    Heard about that but haven't experienced it for myself yet. I take care of my lenses quite well. The only thing that irks me is the front/back focus issue and it's not quality related. It's just that the electrical compatibility isn't 100%. Same goes for the other 3rd party brands. Nikon doesn't release the electrical communication so those lens makers have to reverse engineer to find out the communication signals used.

    But like the others mentioned, going out to shoot is certainly the best way to improve your pictures, whether you used a 3rd party lens or not. I have a couple of 3rd party lenses too and each of them have their use.
    Last edited by lsisaxon; 21st October 2008 at 10:33 AM.

  18. #58

    Default Re: third party vs main party (canon, nikon)

    Quote Originally Posted by lsisaxon View Post
    Heard about that but haven't experienced it for myself yet. I take care of my lenses quite well. The only thing that irks me is the front/back focus issue and it's not quality related. It's just that the electrical compatibility isn't 100%. Same goes for the other 3rd party brands. Nikon doesn't release the electrical communication so those lens makers have to reverse engineer to find out the communication signals used.

    But like the others mentioned, going out to shoot is certainly the best way to improve your pictures, whether you used a 3rd party lens or not. I have a couple of 3rd party lenses too and each of them have their use.

    From what i read so far, sigma actually have the most problem. esp if your camera was canon.
    you almost bound to have compatibility issue. tamron has the least issue esp if your camera was nikon.

  19. #59

    Default Re: third party vs main party (canon, nikon)

    i support opposition party

  20. #60
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    Default Re: And another thing...

    Quote Originally Posted by camerax View Post
    alrighht, whatever man. i dont care what you think. like you are better than me anyway.

    who are you to judge me?? you want me to bow ?
    there there...why so serious? seriously, relax lah.. even pro uses 3rd party lenses. i guess it's the way you put your msg across. when you are mad, half the battle is lost!!

    who wanna buy 3rd partie lenses i got lobang !!

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