nikon colors & skin tones

[bigbird17]

Hi,

i am pretty new especially shooting people or rather weddings i am wondering if there is a reason why most wedding or fashion photographers use canon? i know this is a sensitive topic on nikon and canon but i just need an answer :P

I myself is a nikon user. I find the colors for nikon much saturated even when done less saturated and the skin tones plasticky. Just my 2 cents what do you guys think? i saw a guys thread with a D50 the colors seems awfully fake even thou he used it in portrait settings.

I have used both the D40,D40x and D80 and it seems D40x produces the nicest skin tones of the 3 at default mode. Canon no doubt colors looks cooler and lets not get to Fuji

you guys notice color differences in various nikon models?? I might want to get a D300 in near future but now that i am concern abt the colors, i like to get some feedbacks. i know of a friend who owned a D300 sold it off and trade system to a canon 5D. I know it's kinda extreme.

Anyway, how many wedding photographers here uses nikon? i did like to know and have a look at the colors of your shots? post them here? thanks!!!

[zac08]

No need to check weddings...

just check potraitures.... still plenty shooting with Nikon. Just one thing to note, Nikon tends to saturate red more. Keep that in mind when choosing the modes and settings. Conversion in computer also needs to check these...

[madmacs]

in my opinion, nikon colors have improved a lot with the release of the d300 and d3. i find the awb more accurate. maybe you can try out the d300 first?

[bigbird17]

Originally Posted by madmacs in my opinion, nikon colors have improved a lot with the release of the d300 and d3. i find the awb more accurate. maybe you can try out the d300 first?

yeah.. i dun wanna jump into it first. before when i start it's always sharpness but i tend to lean towards nicer and accurate colors. you think a S2/3/5 pro be a gd option? Yeah if i get the chance i will try out the D300. i cant stand the greens of the nikon at times. reds also sometimes.

But any settings you guys normally use for nicer skin tones? i set all to 0


i guess fuji is pink in color more suiting for ang moh.

[diediealsomustdive]

I was shooting with Fuji S2Pro before upgrading to D300, and a month or so later added a D60. Before S2 I was using D70.

I was able to get good colours off S2 even during a concert! But the aweful high ISO performance pushed me to get the D300.

I was quite frustrated in not being able to get good skin tone (jpg) straight off D300 the way I used to get from S2 - there was a time I was shooting entirely in jpg with S2 and I had no problem at all. Good thing I always shot raw+jpg so I can always do the stuff in photoshop to get the colour that I need. The part I hated most, and still haven't come to terms with, are the fake colours I get when I engage D-Lighting, for what it is worth. So much for the rave review.

D60 was so much better in colour than D300, jpg straight off camera, still a long distance behind S2.

But I have come to learn to live with the cameras, they produce so much cleaner images when using higher ISO. The S2 was acceptable at 400, aweful the moment you pass it. Even at ISO1600 the D60 gave good performance. Hadn't pushed the D300 so far, it had tended to sit in the dry cabi due to its weight. 60:40 usage between D60 and D300.

Not sure about Canon colours - I am a committed Nikon user with 20+ years of optics invested, no way I can change system. Unless I become super rich overnight.

But I was really glad I didn't buy into Canon (the A-1, T90 times) those years back cause Canon would have ditched me, but that's another story.

[photobum]

Originally Posted by diediealsomustdive I was quite frustrated in not being able to get good skin tone (jpg) straight off D300 the way I used to get from S2 - there was a time I was shooting entirely in jpg with S2 and I had no problem at all. Good thing I always shot raw+jpg so I can always do the stuff in photoshop to get the colour that I need. The part I hated most, and still haven't come to terms with, are the fake colours I get when I engage D-Lighting, for what it is worth. So much for the rave review.

Same here.

I could shoot an entire wedding with the S2 Pro, and did not have to touch Photoshop at all. The colors always came out right.

[bigbird17]

Originally Posted by diediealsomustdive I was shooting with Fuji S2Pro before upgrading to D300, and a month or so later added a D60. Before S2 I was using D70. I was able to get good colours off S2 even during a concert! But the aweful high ISO performance pushed me to get the D300. I was quite frustrated in not being able to get good skin tone (jpg) straight off D300 the way I used to get from S2 - there was a time I was shooting entirely in jpg with S2 and I had no problem at all. Good thing I always shot raw+jpg so I can always do the stuff in photoshop to get the colour that I need. The part I hated most, and still haven't come to terms with, are the fake colours I get when I engage D-Lighting, for what it is worth. So much for the rave review. D60 was so much better in colour than D300, jpg straight off camera, still a long distance behind S2. But I have come to learn to live with the cameras, they produce so much cleaner images when using higher ISO. The S2 was acceptable at 400, aweful the moment you pass it. Even at ISO1600 the D60 gave good performance. Hadn't pushed the D300 so far, it had tended to sit in the dry cabi due to its weight. 60:40 usage between D60 and D300. Not sure about Canon colours - I am a committed Nikon user with 20+ years of optics invested, no way I can change system. Unless I become super rich overnight. But I was really glad I didn't buy into Canon (the A-1, T90 times) those years back cause Canon would have ditched me, but that's another story.

seems like lots of years of experience to say those wise words. yeah but i still cant get over the skin tone thing i was using the D40x before and yes the colors were much better than the D80. D300 i guess if i get it would be for the function to meter with my ai-s lenses and also to calibrate my lenses. Do you think a S5 will allow me to do the similar stuffs? meter on Ai-s lenses and calibrate lenses focusing? maybe wrong section but is the S5 focusing motor comparable with the D300? i am using a D80 and thinking if i should bite on Fuji. D300 i am not sure if you ppl do settings to make the skin tones more neutral?

on my D80 i set all to 0 for all settings and +1 for sharpening

btw, would an investment in a s2 better or just jump to s5? or any nikon cameras tat gives neutral colors?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/dacookieman/804905777/ <- was shot my a fellow friend. D80 with the 50 1.4. nice colors and the underneath of the cap is red so adds a lil red into her skin. i thought it looks almost perfect

[Override2Zion]

Originally Posted by bigbird17 i know of a friend who owned a D300 sold it off and trade system to a canon 5D. I know it's kinda extreme.

Haa haa I know who you're referring to who switched to a 5D. Anyways I'm using the D200 at the moment, produces decent skin tones. Read from a review site some time ago that the 5D ranks amongst the top in terms of rendering the skin tones. This site may not be entirely correct though, since not many others has done any comparisons of the same sorts. Might be entirely judged based on the preference of the reviewer.

The following were extracted from the site.
#1 Canon 5D* 7.43
#2 Fuji S3* 7.28
#3 Nikon D200* 7.01
#4 Canon 30D* 6.22
#5 Nikon D2x* 6.18
#6 Canon 1D II* 5.96
#7 Nikon D2h 5.88
#8 Canon 1Ds II* 4.77

http://www.shootsmarter.com/DSLRshootout.html

[photobum]

Originally Posted by bigbird17 Do you think a S5 will allow me to do the similar stuffs? meter on Ai-s lenses and calibrate lenses focusing? maybe wrong section but is the S5 focusing motor comparable with the D300?

I am currently using the Fuji S5 Pro and yes, you can meter with all Nikon AI-S lenses. About the motor, the S5 Pro is based on the D200 body. I believe the D300 has a faster and more powerful motor unit. However, if you are using mostly AF-S lenses, I don't think it will matter.

[photobum]

Originally Posted by Override2Zion Haa haa I know who you're referring to who switched to a 5D. Anyways I'm using the D200 at the moment, produces decent skin tones. Read from a review site some time ago that the 5D ranks amongst the top in terms of rendering the skin tones. This site may not be entirely correct though, since not many others has done any comparisons of the same sorts. Might be entirely judged based on the preference of the reviewer. The following were extracted from the site. #1 Canon 5D* 7.43 #2 Fuji S3* 7.28 #3 Nikon D200* 7.01 #4 Canon 30D* 6.22 #5 Nikon D2x* 6.18 #6 Canon 1D II* 5.96 #7 Nikon D2h 5.88 #8 Canon 1Ds II* 4.77 http://www.shootsmarter.com/DSLRshootout.html

I don't think this ranking is accurate. I used to own the Fuji S3 Pro and I am currently using a Canon 5D at work. The 5D produces colder colors (with cyan cast) and overly sharpened skin tones. The 5D will make a great camera for landscape photography but not for portraiture.

In my opinion, the Fuji S3 Pro is better.

[Override2Zion]

Originally Posted by photobum I don't think this ranking is accurate. I used to own the Fuji S3 Pro and I am currently using a Canon 5D at work. The 5D produces colder colors (with cyan cast) and overly sharpened skin tones. The 5D will make a great camera for landscape photography but not for portraiture. In my opinion, the Fuji S3 Pro is better.

Yeap i agree with you, that why i mentioned "This site may not be entirely correct though, since not many others has done any comparisons of the same sorts. Might be entirely judged based on the preference of the reviewer.". Anyways, this just serves as a reference for the TS.

[zuikoku]

Originally Posted by photobum I don't think this ranking is accurate. I used to own the Fuji S3 Pro and I am currently using a Canon 5D at work. The 5D produces colder colors (with cyan cast) and overly sharpened skin tones. The 5D will make a great camera for landscape photography but not for portraiture. In my opinion, the Fuji S3 Pro is better.

Agree, sometimes some websites refer to 'pleasant' color instead of 'accurate' color.
According to Popular Photography's website, the best color accuracy reproduction is Fujifilm S5Pro, followed closely by Olympus E-3, Canon EOS 1Ds3, Nikon D90

One of the interesting point to consider.. how's we shoot black object on the black background (black on black) OR... shoot in white on white .. are details still there ?

[diediealsomustdive]

Originally Posted by zuikoku Agree, sometimes some websites refer to 'pleasant' color instead of 'accurate' color. According to Popular Photography's website, the best color accuracy reproduction is Fujifilm S5Pro, followed closely by Olympus E-3, Canon EOS 1Ds3, Nikon D90 One of the interesting point to consider.. how's we shoot black object on the black background (black on black) OR... shoot in white on white .. are details still there ?

Pleasant vs accurate is a hot debate also in the audiophile circle. In a documentary sense we should aim for neutral colour, but when doing fine arts, pleasant colours. Accurate colour is perhaps a misnomer?

Say you find a nice landscape scene, whatever the subject, won't you tweak the output to look pleasant rather than accurate? A bold red somewhat north of accurate would certainly bring acclaims, wouldn't it?

Similarly with a bride, almost certainly pleasant colour wins hands down.

I usually try to get neutral colours and then work from there. S2Pro really gives pleasant colour and my experience so far with D300 is that when set to neutral the colour is good, neutral, but not as pleasant as S2Pro. How's that for a confused ride on colour, neutrality, accuracy and pleasing to the eye?

That said, colour "accuracy" isn't the only criteria, nor is quality. You'll see folks using D40, D60 or even compact and leave the He-man rig at home on certain occasions. So now I work from neutral and spend time tweaking. Maybe someday I can find a good S5Pro (when my wife isn't looking) at a good price I might be tempted...

As to black on black and white on white, you should do a search on the zone system, OT on this thread, to find ideas behind details in highlight and shadows. Very interesting and something to aspire to.

[ckii96]

Originally Posted by bigbird17 Hi, i am pretty new especially shooting people or rather weddings i am wondering if there is a reason why most wedding or fashion photographers use canon? i know this is a sensitive topic on nikon and canon but i just need an answer :P I myself is a nikon user. I find the colors for nikon much saturated even when done less saturated and the skin tones plasticky. Just my 2 cents what do you guys think? i saw a guys thread with a D50 the colors seems awfully fake even thou he used it in portrait settings. I have used both the D40,D40x and D80 and it seems D40x produces the nicest skin tones of the 3 at default mode. Canon no doubt colors looks cooler and lets not get to Fuji you guys notice color differences in various nikon models?? I might want to get a D300 in near future but now that i am concern abt the colors, i like to get some feedbacks. i know of a friend who owned a D300 sold it off and trade system to a canon 5D. I know it's kinda extreme. Anyway, how many wedding photographers here uses nikon? i did like to know and have a look at the colors of your shots? post them here? thanks!!!

One good thing about D300 is the "Picture Control" settings. Try installing and using the 'D2x Mode I' and 'Portrait' settings and you'll get immediate good results of skin tone.

[diediealsomustdive]

Originally Posted by bigbird17 btw, would an investment in a s2 better or just jump to s5? or any nikon cameras tat gives neutral colors?

S2 is cheap nowadays, and if you really want to play it is worth the paltry dollars they sell for today. Caveat - may start to have hot or dead spots, reliability is going south of reliable, and high ISO performance is awful, camera is slow (what do you expect?).

S5 is somewhat cheap, think you can get for <$1.5k, still more expensive than D200, prices are for new bodies. S5 is still a 6+ megapixel camera, one reason why I didn't go that direction (this is opening a can of worms here , my opinion only and you don't have to agree). Had the S5 been a D200 equivalent in pixel count with the Fuji sensor performance, no hesitation. But being 6+ megapixel, the step up from my S2Pro is small and IMHO not worth the investment. And I will still be using my S2Pro in my underwater rig, so keeping S2Pro alive is for a few more years to come.

Oh the Fuji servicing cost is expensive.

I could, for example, bring my S2 and my D300 and shot in the same wedding (if I still have to do it) and have best of both worlds. Don't worry, I've been around long enough to have duplicates of a lot of items!

Just my 2c if you want to go the Fuji direction.

[diediealsomustdive]

Originally Posted by ckii96 One good thing about D300 is the "Picture Control" settings. Try installing and using the 'D2x Mode I' and 'Portrait' settings and you'll get immediate good results of skin tone.

I beg to differ. Have tried both and they don't even come close! And I am committed to using D300, not from the Fuji camp.

I await the day someone tweak sufficiently in Camera Control Pro to come up with a Picture Control Mode to give real Fuji colours (or at least close).

BTW there are some PC modes out there that says Reala, Velva, etc. Have not gotten good results from there but will try again.

[bigpond]

Originally Posted by diediealsomustdive I beg to differ. Have tried both and they don't even come close! And I am committed to using D300, not from the Fuji camp.

I just want to make 2 points. I've been using the Fuji S5 for a while and like its colours, like most people. But, like most cameras, the AWB is not fool proof. In the case of the S5, I find it has a strong tendency towards magenta, so I tone down the magenta in the AWB setting. Even then, had to adjust quite a few shots now and then. Nice, but somewhat overrated?

Second, I tried the D2X Mode I tone curve in the D300 and I much prefer the results compared to the D300 standard or portrait setting. D2xModeI tones down contrast, saturation and increases the pinkish colurs -- wonderful for portraits. I can live with that and I don't think it loses out much to Fuji. Nikon has come a long way, i think. Plasticky skin tones? - i thought people said that about Canon cameras.

So, unlike you, I think D2xModeI works very well for portraits.

[diediealsomustdive]

Originally Posted by bigpond Second, I tried the D2X Mode I tone curve in the D300 and I much prefer the results compared to the D300 standard or portrait setting. D2xModeI tones down contrast, saturation and increases the pinkish colurs -- wonderful for portraits. I can live with that and I don't think it loses out much to Fuji. Nikon has come a long way, i think. Plasticky skin tones? - i thought people said that about Canon cameras. So, unlike you, I think D2xModeI works very well for portraits.

Well, I might not have executed my shots well and have not tested sufficiently extensively , and I welcome the comments and will go back to trying D2x Mode I. Thanks for sharing.

Oh was it my expectation set too high to hope it will emulate S2 colours? Sometimes people (in this case me) need to examine reality and ask if it is good enough?

[fabianaino]

well ... I am quite surprise to read that Nikon produces plasticy look skin tone too .. .Tot the BIG C falls agreeably in that category.

Anyway ..for me, I find the D2X mode I and III mode are skewed more towards the cooler side, probabaly due to the hue setting ( althought we cant really make out anything from thh grid ! ) I installed the LS and Portrait PC as well and find them abit more warm which I like. U can see it very clearly when shooting leaves and trees. =) LS is very close to Vivid mode though so I tend to down -1 the contrast.

For me my penchant is for the portriat and LS mode for it's warm colors, but when I realised that my commissioner prefers a more " netural, cooler " color , I shot in D2X mode.

I think it's a matter of preference. I think netural color is boring ... but that's me. So long as people like it and pay for it, I will do anything that pleases them. For myself I tends to take a different path ... and the rest of the people still like it. =)

[nemesis32]

Just to add, when u consider the skin tones, even the lens play a big part.. Based on my personal experience, Nikon is usually more yellowish. Canon usually more pinkish. Thus, Nikon more suitable for landscapes as it's more saturated and canon gives better skin tones. Of course, no matter what is captured, you can still edit accordingly in PS etc.

Another thing i realise is that i think more PP is required for Nikon DSLR as compared with Canon.