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Thread: Photo taking at Airport and MRT Stations

  1. #41

    Default Re: Photo taking at Airport and MRT Stations

    Quote Originally Posted by Weili80 View Post
    Since the shopping mall is a private place, does it mean that if we take a photo in the shopping mall, the shopping mall management has to right to ask us to delete the photos taken in the shopping mall if they don't allow photography in the shopping mall?
    I would think so. If I open my property out of good will for public access and then any Tom, Dick or Harry come in with cameras and start taking pictures of my interior without asking me for permission first, I have the right to stop him and ask him to delete the pictures. If he buay song, then I lock my doors and release the dogs.

    Bottomline is: you step in my property, you jolly well follow the rules and regulations I set as well as respect my ownership of the place. Ignorance does not put one above the law and does not mean one can do anything he wants and not get punished. If I have sex with an underaged girl not knowing it constitutes a statutory rape offence, does that mean I can plea not guilty and get away scot free? If in doubt, always ask. Asking don't hurt. That's basic courtesy. Eventually getting a nod to take photo is not your right, it's your previlege so to speak, so be grateful. One has the right to ask for permission to take photo but not demand for it. So if one gets rejected, just have to swallow it. At the end of the day, why get yourself into trouble because of a photo? It's very silly. And who knows because of our silly antics, we shut the doors for future opportunities of another photographer?

  2. #42

    Default Re: Photo taking at Airport and MRT Stations

    Quote Originally Posted by Genie In A Lightbox View Post
    I would think so. If I open my property out of good will for public access and then any Tom, Dick or Harry come in with cameras and start taking pictures of my interior without asking me for permission first, I have the right to stop him and ask him to delete the pictures. If he buay song, then I lock my doors and release the dogs.

    Bottomline is: you step in my property, you jolly well follow the rules and regulations I set as well as respect my ownership of the place. Ignorance does not put one above the law and does not mean one can do anything he wants and not get punished. If I have sex with an underaged girl not knowing it constitutes a statutory rape offence, does that mean I can plea not guilty and get away scot free? If in doubt, always ask. Asking don't hurt. That's basic courtesy. Eventually getting a nod to take photo is not your right, it's your previlege so to speak, so be grateful. One has the right to ask for permission to take photo but not demand for it. So if one gets rejected, just have to swallow it. At the end of the day, why get yourself into trouble because of a photo? It's very silly. And who knows because of our silly antics, we shut the doors for future opportunities of another photographer?
    Thanks for answering my doubt

  3. #43

    Default Re: Photo taking at Airport and MRT Stations

    Quote Originally Posted by Weili80 View Post
    Thanks for answering my doubt
    You're welcome.

  4. #44
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    Default Re: Photo taking at Airport and MRT Stations

    Quote Originally Posted by mindwish View Post
    Yes, the Management got every rights to ask u to delete the photo taken. The Management also got the rights to chase people out if caught doing nuisane or infriged their rules and regulations of their premises.
    i doubt they have the right to confiscate your camera, confine you, force you to delete the picture or manhandle you.

    however, they can eject you out of the premise or sue you (i wonder what are the damages that they can sue u for, though...) or call police if you persist in taking photos despite their warnings (think prb under trespassing...)
    G

  5. #45
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    Default Re: Photo taking at Airport and MRT Stations

    Quote Originally Posted by Genie In A Lightbox View Post
    I would think so. If I open my property out of good will for public access and then any Tom, Dick or Harry come in with cameras and start taking pictures of my interior without asking me for permission first, I have the right to stop him and ask him to delete the pictures. If he buay song, then I lock my doors and release the dogs.

    Bottomline is: you step in my property, you jolly well follow the rules and regulations I set as well as respect my ownership of the place. Ignorance does not put one above the law and does not mean one can do anything he wants and not get punished. If I have sex with an underaged girl not knowing it constitutes a statutory rape offence, does that mean I can plea not guilty and get away scot free? If in doubt, always ask. Asking don't hurt. That's basic courtesy. Eventually getting a nod to take photo is not your right, it's your previlege so to speak, so be grateful. One has the right to ask for permission to take photo but not demand for it. So if one gets rejected, just have to swallow it. At the end of the day, why get yourself into trouble because of a photo? It's very silly. And who knows because of our silly antics, we shut the doors for future opportunities of another photographer?
    eh...unfair comparison.....
    statutory rape is in the criminal code and ignorance is not a good defense in singapore because they have put the onus on us to find out what we can't do as they have made all their laws and statutes widely available and mostly free.

    your rules for entering into the premise is considered a commercial contract and unless you have specifically stated that rule as a condition of entry where it is obvious to the photographer, your rule dun stand. Your right to delete the pictures is also ambiguous here. You have the right to delete the pictures if the pictures are damaging to you or may cause u to suffer loss but you can only enforce it through a court order if the photographer refuses to voluntarily delete. If you snatch the camera to delete it or use unnecessary force or threats, you could be in trouble. This rule does not apply if the pictures that are taken can be prosecuted in court (e.g. upskirts, etc)

    Surrounding the photographer with guards and confining him may constitute unlawful confinement....so be careful.,...
    G

  6. #46

    Default Re: Photo taking at Airport and MRT Stations

    please let me clarify something. malls and shopping complexes by defination are public palces even tho they may be owned by a private entity. same for private places opened up to public access. regarding the owner's rights to eject any undesirable persons out of their premises, indeed they can do that. however, this is done on a case by case basis oni. if they do not want photographs taken on their property, it should be prominently displayed.there is no such thing as courtesy in the eys of the law lor IMHO. as to the example of opening up ur house to public access (or letting a few guest come in) and they start taking all those pix, u have every right to stop them of coz. but i think this piece of analogue is flawed based on one premise: the mall (wheelock place for example) has gahmen approval to allow public access, and has in place appropriate emergencies procedures to deal with emergency situation involving large numbers people. a private house doesn't.
    おれのflickrださ

  7. #47

    Default Re: Photo taking at Airport and MRT Stations

    Quote Originally Posted by Daedalus Trent View Post
    You mean without reason
    The Government of Singapore has the right to detain people without charges.
    yeah. i mean even without reason they can detain u without a trial or deadline.

    that is what happened to the malaysia oppositions and media workers. singapore had used the ISA to detain communists in the past and terrorists now.

  8. #48

    Default Re: Photo taking at Airport and MRT Stations

    Quote Originally Posted by godzilla60 View Post
    i doubt they have the right to confiscate your camera, confine you, force you to delete the picture or manhandle you.

    however, they can eject you out of the premise or sue you (i wonder what are the damages that they can sue u for, though...) or call police if you persist in taking photos despite their warnings (think prb under trespassing...)
    they do hav the right to confiscate or force u to delete the photos. u try taking photos in a military camp and u see if they do this to u?

    similarly used in a shopping mall, should they have commercial secrets and u happened to snap a picture of it, do u think they will let u off?

  9. #49

    Default Re: Photo taking at Airport and MRT Stations

    We can argue till the cows come home or go to court or speak to lawyer or to hell I care. As far as I am concerned regarding this issue, one thing still stands: common sense.

  10. #50
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Photo taking at Airport and MRT Stations

    Legal action sought on discrimination? Really? Could you refer me to any legislation or case law applicable within the Singapore legal framework to support your statement?

    Quote Originally Posted by shiruikage View Post
    that would border with discrimination, and legal actions can be sought. btw, the road is owned by the gahmen of singapore by the virtue of them owning the deed to the piece of land the road sits on.

  11. #51
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    Default Re: Photo taking at Airport and MRT Stations

    Quote Originally Posted by shiruikage View Post
    please let me clarify something. malls and shopping complexes by defination are public palces even tho they may be owned by a private entity. same for private places opened up to public access. regarding the owner's rights to eject any undesirable persons out of their premises, indeed they can do that. however, this is done on a case by case basis oni. if they do not want photographs taken on their property, it should be prominently displayed.there is no such thing as courtesy in the eys of the law lor IMHO. as to the example of opening up ur house to public access (or letting a few guest come in) and they start taking all those pix, u have every right to stop them of coz. but i think this piece of analogue is flawed based on one premise: the mall (wheelock place for example) has gahmen approval to allow public access, and has in place appropriate emergencies procedures to deal with emergency situation involving large numbers people. a private house doesn't.
    Your source, please?

  12. #52
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Photo taking at Airport and MRT Stations

    Contrary to popular belief and opinion of what is "right and wrong", the shopping mall owner DOES NOT have any right ot ask you to delete the photos taken in a shopping mall.

    Where there are no signs or the mall is silent on photography, and you start taking photos, the most the mall owner can ask you to do is to leave. If you leave, you go away free of any encumbrances and you do not have to delete, show or surrender your photographs.

    If you persist in remaining despite warnings that photography is not allowed, then remaining on the premises constitutes trespass and the mall owner can enforce his rights under this ground. Even then, the mall owner does not have any right to ask you to delete, show or surrender any photographs.

    For those who say that the mall owner has a right to ask you to show, delete or surrender photographs, kindly refer us to the legislation or case law applicable within the Singapore legal framework to support your statement?

    There is a difference between enforcing your rights in a privately owned place, and asking someone else to surrender what is clearly his property. The taking of a photograph in a privately owned place, does not make ownership of the photograph belong to the mall owner. It belongs to the photographer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Weili80 View Post
    Since the shopping mall is a private place, does it mean that if we take a photo in the shopping mall, the shopping mall management has to right to ask us to delete the photos taken in the shopping mall if they don't allow photography in the shopping mall?
    Quote Originally Posted by mindwish View Post
    Yes, the Management got every rights to ask u to delete the photo taken. The Management also got the rights to chase people out if caught doing nuisane or infriged their rules and regulations of their premises.
    Quote Originally Posted by Genie In A Lightbox View Post
    I would think so. If I open my property out of good will for public access and then any Tom, Dick or Harry come in with cameras and start taking pictures of my interior without asking me for permission first, I have the right to stop him and ask him to delete the pictures. If he buay song, then I lock my doors and release the dogs.

    Bottomline is: you step in my property, you jolly well follow the rules and regulations I set as well as respect my ownership of the place. Ignorance does not put one above the law and does not mean one can do anything he wants and not get punished. If I have sex with an underaged girl not knowing it constitutes a statutory rape offence, does that mean I can plea not guilty and get away scot free? If in doubt, always ask. Asking don't hurt. That's basic courtesy. Eventually getting a nod to take photo is not your right, it's your previlege so to speak, so be grateful. One has the right to ask for permission to take photo but not demand for it. So if one gets rejected, just have to swallow it. At the end of the day, why get yourself into trouble because of a photo? It's very silly. And who knows because of our silly antics, we shut the doors for future opportunities of another photographer?

  13. #53
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Photo taking at Airport and MRT Stations

    Yes, this statement is absolutely correct.

    If they try to snatch your camera, you have a cause of action for theft/misappropriation/conversion.

    If they delete the photos in camera, possible action under the Computer Misuse Act or for property damage.

    If they manhandle you, then an action for criminal force, assault and a civil claim for battery, false imprisonment etc may apply.

    Quote Originally Posted by godzilla60 View Post
    i doubt they have the right to confiscate your camera, confine you, force you to delete the picture or manhandle you.

    however, they can eject you out of the premise or sue you (i wonder what are the damages that they can sue u for, though...) or call police if you persist in taking photos despite their warnings (think prb under trespassing...)

  14. #54
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Photo taking at Airport and MRT Stations

    Wrong again. Malls and shopping complexes are privately owned places. They are not public places. I have no idea where you get the idea that it is a public place - please quote the authority/legislation/case law.

    If it is a public place, they cannot eject anyone from the mall on any reason without getting the police involved.

    Finally, the mall does not need government approval to allow public access to its premises - again I have no idea where you got this from. There is a difference between complying with safety regulations applicable to shopping malls and the like, and getting approval before they can allow public to enter.

    Quote Originally Posted by shiruikage View Post
    please let me clarify something. malls and shopping complexes by defination are public palces even tho they may be owned by a private entity. same for private places opened up to public access. regarding the owner's rights to eject any undesirable persons out of their premises, indeed they can do that. however, this is done on a case by case basis oni. if they do not want photographs taken on their property, it should be prominently displayed.there is no such thing as courtesy in the eys of the law lor IMHO. as to the example of opening up ur house to public access (or letting a few guest come in) and they start taking all those pix, u have every right to stop them of coz. but i think this piece of analogue is flawed based on one premise: the mall (wheelock place for example) has gahmen approval to allow public access, and has in place appropriate emergencies procedures to deal with emergency situation involving large numbers people. a private house doesn't.

  15. #55
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    Default Re: Photo taking at Airport and MRT Stations

    Quote Originally Posted by takeshi.lum View Post
    they do hav the right to confiscate or force u to delete the photos. u try taking photos in a military camp and u see if they do this to u?

    similarly used in a shopping mall, should they have commercial secrets and u happened to snap a picture of it, do u think they will let u off?
    they obviously do not have the right to confiscate your camera or force you to delete in shopping ctrs or private places opened for public access. (except in toilets or when ur act is or is for obvious criminal purposes) under what law can they use to do so?

    military camps are a different matter because it is expressly prohibited and u dun just get your camera confiscated or pictures deleted...u get worse.

    commercial secrets will not be displayed in shopping centres and the most they can do is call the police in. however, they can still get a court order or injunction to make u deliver the photos back....
    G

  16. #56
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    Default Re: Photo taking at Airport and MRT Stations

    Quote Originally Posted by Genie In A Lightbox View Post
    We can argue till the cows come home or go to court or speak to lawyer or to hell I care. As far as I am concerned regarding this issue, one thing still stands: common sense.
    that is true.....common sense should be the deciding factor. why insist on your right to snap at the cost of a night stay in a lockup, embarrassment or anything?
    G

  17. #57
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Photo taking at Airport and MRT Stations

    Quote Originally Posted by godzilla60 View Post
    they obviously do not have the right to confiscate your camera or force you to delete in shopping ctrs or private places opened for public access. (except in toilets or when ur act is or is for obvious criminal purposes) under what law can they use to do so?

    military camps are a different matter because it is expressly prohibited and u dun just get your camera confiscated or pictures deleted...u get worse.

    commercial secrets will not be displayed in shopping centres and the most they can do is call the police in. however, they can still get a court order or injunction to make u deliver the photos back....

    Godzilla is right on the money once again. The requirement before the common law of confidential information can be enforced is that information must have a quality of confidence. Something publicly displayed is very unlikely to have the necessary quality of confidence.

  18. #58
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    Default Re: Photo taking at Airport and MRT Stations

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    Godzilla is right on the money once again. The requirement before the common law of confidential information can be enforced is that information must have a quality of confidence. Something publicly displayed is very unlikely to have the necessary quality of confidence.
    wow....cool to know i have the right interpretation of the law....

    btw, do u happen to be in the legal profession by any chance? coz u r quite knowledgeable in the law...
    G

  19. #59
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Photo taking at Airport and MRT Stations

    Hehe, well I think that qualifications is not really important in an online forum like this. If I tell you that I am, does it make my words have any greater weight?

    I prefer to let the substance of my words speak for themselves, rather than just saying "I'm a lawyer, so what I say must be right". Even lawyers can be wrong; same for judges - which is why we have the appeal process.

    This is also similar to how some professional photographers here say "I'm a pro and I've done it for 10 years, so I must be correct when I say [insert some random photographic advice here]". The advice is useless if it is not properly substantiated; irrespective of whether that particular photographer is really in the business for 10 yrs or not.



    Quote Originally Posted by godzilla60 View Post
    wow....cool to know i have the right interpretation of the law....

    btw, do u happen to be in the legal profession by any chance? coz u r quite knowledgeable in the law...
    Last edited by vince123123; 22nd October 2008 at 03:44 PM.

  20. #60
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    Default Re: Photo taking at Airport and MRT Stations

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    Hehe, well I think that qualifications is not really important in an online forum like this. If I tell you that I am, does it make my words have any greater weight?

    I prefer to let the substance of my words speak for themselves, rather than just saying "I'm a lawyer, so what I say must be right". Even lawyers can be wrong; same for judges - which is why we have the appeal process.

    This is also similar to how some professional photographers here say "I'm a pro and I've done it for 10 years, so I must be correct when I say [insert some random photographic advice here]". The advice is useless if it is not properly substantiated; irrespective of whether that particular photographer is really in the business for 10 yrs or not.
    haha.....not checking your credentials here....just plain old curiosity....coz not many people who have not been in the legal profession will do such in-depth study of the law and the case studies...

    if it is a sensitive question, forgive me....like i say, i am just curious..
    G

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