13th August 2003, 12:06 PM
Color Profiling : Step by Step:
Can anyone explain the steps of color profiling, and WHAT is the use of specific profiles? Adobe1998/Camera Specific/ETC/Printer Profile?
I dun understand...
I've been reading those info sites, but they are not very clear in explaining...
1. I ran one of those calibration tests, and it adjusted my monitor. So i dun get it. What is my monitor displaying now? my TRUE g3 color? or What?
2. What is adobe1998 for?
3. Lets say i wanan go print at at the drycreek supported digi lab. and i use their color profile. How iwll i know that when i load their ICC on my monitor, my monitor will display it correctly? So even though if i load it, and make my adjustments correctly, how will i know it will turn out right?
13th August 2003, 02:18 PM
Try searching for Color management in the forum...
13th August 2003, 04:23 PM
i think drycreek has some articles on the process of profiling ...
from what I read from that site, the first important thing is to calibrate your monitor.
Roughly the workflow is as such:
-convert the image from cam to adobe1998, then do the usual adjustments.
-duplicate that image n open it. Then soft proof it selecting for eg digipro's fuji frontier printer profile for matt paper. Should see at this time a slight change in color compared with the original image u desired.
-adjust the image until we get the same colors etc as the original image.
-convert the profile of this 2nd image to that of the digipro one for eg.
hmmm at least tt's what I gathered from their website.
22nd August 2003, 01:25 AM
Well... not really true. A lot of cameras, like the S2 Pro, cannot adjust to AdobeRGB. It is in sRGB workspace.
It's quite difficult to explain the workflow online.
22nd August 2003, 11:51 AM
ICC profiles for local labs?
actually so far I've found colour management useful to a certain extent. I've tried to calibrate my monitor so that more or less the colours I want will appear correct on other calibrated monitors, but I've found that not many pple calibrate their monitors so it's just to please myself most of the time.
Also, my monitor may be calibrated, but it is no guarantee that I get the correct output during the development process. I've been less than happy with the results I've been getting at the local photolabs so far cos' I don't know how much to adjust my own pix to match their colour profiles. Does anyone know where to get the ICC profiles for the local photolabs?
22nd August 2003, 12:02 PM
It is not "just to please myself". It is to give you an absolute point to work with in color management. If there is no human sight involved in adjusting a photo, you don't need to need to calibrate it. Eg, an algo that adjust the brightness and contrast automatically without a human operator. However, if you want to tweak or change your image, without a properly calibrated monitor, are you sure what you have changed to is correct?
Originally Posted by plato
As for photolabs, sigh Many (exceptions are those recommended by many Clubsnappers) don't know about color management and all that much less use it. Some labs do produce ICC profiles, but not many...
22nd August 2003, 01:22 PM
yes i agree that it's important to calibrate your monitor so that you have a standard reference point to use when correcting your images. The point I was making is that not many pple I know (ie friends and relatives) calibrate their monitors and I often get questions like why my pictures seem so dark etc...
So where can I get the ICC profiles for the local photolabs, eg RGB color or Konota?
22nd August 2003, 02:37 PM
hi, yes, but if i calibrate my monitor, and then adjust my photos to my desire..
where does the PRINTER ICC profile come in then?
do i then LOAD the Printer profile, and THEN readjust my photos AGAIN?
22nd August 2003, 03:37 PM
I'm not 100% sure cos' I've not gotten that far before, but yes, I think what you've said is correct (anyone pls correct me if I'm wrong). You first need to calibrate your own monitor, adjust till you are satisfied, then do the Proof Colours (Ctrl Y) to check if the output to the printer matches what your image. If not, then from what I heard, a simple curve adjustment should be sufficient to bring the picture back in line. That's why I want to get hold of the ICC profile of one of our local labs and try out the full colour management workflow to see how it works.
23rd August 2003, 01:11 PM
Actually, if you notice, fuji frontier labs use sRGB
24th August 2003, 01:47 AM
Color profiling is an extensive and extremely complex subject which has always been a universal problem faced by designer, artists and photographers. I will try to explain as best as I could to you about what colour profile means here.
1) There are two profile of colour gamut. CMYK and RGB gamut.
CMYK gamut (cyan, Magenta, Yellow, Black) is the colour which is used in industrial/commercial printing. Using 4 colour ink to reproduce a print work. (such as magazine or any other editorial production).
RGB gamut (Red, Green, Blue) is the colour profile used in photographic processes and the computer monitor screen. Using only 3 coloured lights spectrum to translate colours.
2) Both profiles have different characteristics and usage purposes.
CMYK is a profile which uses ink to translate colour spectrum.
RGB is a profile which uses light to translate colours.
As ink and light are two different mediums, it is natural that both represent colours differently. ( that is why your monitor look different from your output.)
RGB has a wider colour spectrums in comparision with CMYK. That is why a picture always look more vibrant in photographic prints and the monitor screen. However, there are some colours (ie yellow) which CMKY can translate better. This can be illustrated in a graph or chart. In this case I'm representing it in numerical scale like for example:
(**The figures below are just made-up for understanding purpose and not an accurate representation of the colour gamuts)
say, RBG have the colour scale of about 1 - 10, and CMKY have a scales of about -2 to 6. (Our eyes could probably see a scale of about -20 to 20 colours). In simpler terms, there are some colours which CMKY can display while RGB cannot, and likewise the latter.
24th August 2003, 02:38 AM
In this section, I will explain more about the difference in various colour gamuts and ICC. I would dedicate more on RGB as photographer would be using this profile more than CMYK profile.
Now we understand what RGB and CMKY gamut means, the next thing we have to do is to understand the problems and the method of controlling these colour gamuts.
we depend most of our picture previewing on our monitor screen (RGB mode) to control our prints (RGB or CMYK). The monitor is the first channel where we adjust our colours from. Fact is, everybody's monitor is set and manufactured differently. Your monitor may be brighter, more constrasty or have a different colour cast from mine. Thus if I adjust an image on my computer, it may look just right on my monitor but look overexposed on yours. If that's the case, i would need something (software/ ICC profiling) to synconise my monitor so that when I send my work to you or the printer, you or the printer would be able to see what I saw on my monitor screen.
Photoshop software in this case is a widely used software for industrial and proffesional usage. Attached with photoshop software there is a ICC profiler called 'adobe gamma'. By calibrating your monitor with thie adobe gamma, the adobe ICC profile will be activated. This profile will be attached to all your files upon editing the images in the software and after you have saved your work. The profile is able to detect the characteristic of your monitor, and make the necessary adjustments to make sure it balances with other's monitor whom are also using the same software as you. In other words, if the other party do not use the same profiler as you do, he or she might not be able to see what you see. There are however alot of softwares in the market, some of which are even made for high end users.
So far I have only managed to cover till calibration of monitors. Would try to cover more about prints if you guys are interested.
Last edited by excentrique; 24th August 2003 at 02:48 AM.
24th August 2003, 02:59 AM
Hi excentrique, thanks for bothering to explain all this. My issue is actually when it comes to printing. I've used adobe gamma to do the calibration of my monitor, but when it comes to printing, I can't get my prints from the photolabs to come out the same as what was on my screen. Any advice on this would be appreciated
24th August 2003, 11:01 AM
Okay if you have read my lesson 2 on monitor calibration, you would understand that if the other party who does not use an ICC profile or are not using the same ICC profile as you do, the other person might not be able to get the same result as you.
Originally Posted by plato
From my experience, even by using the attached ICC profile by photoshop, there would still be colour shift when it comes to printing. Infact, adobe gamma is still far from proffessional reliability in production line. There are however top of the line and much more complex calibration software in the market which are extremely costly and this is just the starting of even bigger issues.
Well, why you are not getting the print even though you have done a ICC profiler? Apart from the accuracy of the ICC profiler, different types of printers (domestical and commercial) have also different characteristics and they interpret colours differently. For example, epson photo print will look different from espon stylus, and within different brands itself, there is a difference it terms of technology and use of pigments and inks. In commercial printing, different printers, chemicals, papers will all interpret colour differently.
Inorder to do a good print, you would realise by now that one has to understand his or her printer and brands of ink as well. If your monitor is profiled, (balanced) and you found that your home based printer has a slightly yellow cast (due to the nature of your printer capability), you would have to correct it in the software to get a balance picture.
You could create another profile in photoshop to tell your computer to print lesser in yellow pigment for example in this case (make sure you use the same brand of ink). With the recorded profile, you could activate the printer profiler so all your prints would come out balanced.
However, this is only solely for your home printer. The commercial printer would have another standard of ICC profiler for their printer and monitor, that is entirely different from your's. That is the reason why it is almost impossible to get close to what you want.
There are several ways which we can now solve the problem:
1) Use the same ICC profile (monitor and printer) as your commercial printer. As far as concern, most printer would have their set of ICC profile for thier printers. If they are using photoshop like you do, you could request them to send you their ICC profile (for printers only) and attached it in your lists of preset profiles. This would ensure that when they open up the file in their computer, the colour shift has been corrected. However, I don't think this is a common practice in local market. Commercial printers normally do not give away their profiles to their clients. Apart from this, you would also not get the right colours if you are using another commercial printer the next time round as their ICC profile would be different from earlier one you took the profile from.
2) The more feasible option is to use a hardcopy proof. If you could do a good calibration of your monitor and printer, it would be good to do a hardcopy print first on your home based printer for your commercial printer to gauge. Yet, this is a very laborious process and time consuming.
There is no better way to solve this issue yet as far as I know unless you use the same profile and common software with your commercial printers. That is probably why hardcopy is still around as a more reliable form of gauging.
24th August 2003, 11:52 AM
Thanks for the advice man, it's been very helpful