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Thread: Gracious society...

  1. #141
    Member terryansimon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gracious society...

    I am alarmed and perturbed by the sheer number of ungracious people I encounter in Singapore, who seem to have taken for granted that basic courtesy is a two way street that we all should ideally be in.

    however, just because 95% of the people I encounter do not bother saying thank you to me after holding the door for them/getting out of the seat for them/giving way to them/insert other general nice stuff that one can do, I do feel discouraged. but I tell myself that I've done my part, and if you can't do your part to show appreciation, then it's really your loss and not mine. if it really is too hard for you to show a sign of appreciation via a smile/quick nod of the head/flash of the hand/a verbal response, then to me it just shows what sort of a person you are to not do something as simple as giving a response. asking you to write a PhD thesis on it is painful, time consuming, and not to mention sheer torture. so surely, expecting a simple two worded reply that goes "thank you" is much easier than doing a PhD thesis, no?
    chicken fight!

  2. #142
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    Default Re: Gracious society...

    Quote Originally Posted by terryansimon View Post
    I am alarmed and perturbed by the sheer number of ungracious people I encounter in Singapore, who seem to have taken for granted that basic courtesy is a two way street that we all should ideally be in.

    however, just because 95% of the people I encounter do not bother saying thank you to me after holding the door for them/getting out of the seat for them/giving way to them/insert other general nice stuff that one can do, I do feel discouraged. but I tell myself that I've done my part, and if you can't do your part to show appreciation, then it's really your loss and not mine. if it really is too hard for you to show a sign of appreciation via a smile/quick nod of the head/flash of the hand/a verbal response, then to me it just shows what sort of a person you are to not do something as simple as giving a response. asking you to write a PhD thesis on it is painful, time consuming, and not to mention sheer torture. so surely, expecting a simple two worded reply that goes "thank you" is much easier than doing a PhD thesis, no?
    Actually, it is many times the young generation here that are less gracious, the older generation, especially those who lived in kampongs are generally more gracious. Anyway, here it has become more 'first me than you', but I see the same happening in Europe.........could it be the sign of times?

    HS

  3. #143
    Member terryansimon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gracious society...

    Quote Originally Posted by hongsien View Post
    Actually, it is many times the young generation here that are less gracious, the older generation, especially those who lived in kampongs are generally more gracious. Anyway, here it has become more 'first me than you', but I see the same happening in Europe.........could it be the sign of times?

    HS
    I find both the young and the old to be equally ungracious in terms of minding their Ps and Qs, albeit via different expressions or lack off.

    the older generation may not be as educated in terms of civic mindedness and social upbringing and know hows, hence they might not have the capacity to react accordingly. either that, or they just take it for granted that since they are in an Asian culture (aka tradition of treating one's elders with respect and dignity), that they expect this sort of behaviour towards them to be the norm.

    the younger generation on the other hand, are just. plain rude at times. despite whatever civics and moral education courses they have gone through in school, it is painfully obvious that such lessons are not sinking in. I have seen on countless number of occasions kids below the age of 21 being rude in the public, be it towards service staff or towards other people in general. the tone in their voice is one that expects a certain set of behaviours/actions to be dished out to them, akin to "you owe me your living therefore you worship the ground beneath my feet" sort of behaviour.

    in essence, each country in the world will have its own short comings. Australia isn't exactly the most sainted location on earth, but I can tell you that even as an outsider living in that country for the past couple of years, I dare say the average population are a whole lot more polite and gracious than the people you encounter in Singapore. and they do not have civics and moral education in their syllabus, and neither do they have campaigns like Courtesy Campaign and what not. that being said, this isn't a case of comparison, it's a case of observation and noticing that such behaviour is becoming commonplace, despite attempts at reform via education and/or campaigning.
    chicken fight!

  4. #144

    Default Re: Gracious society...

    Quote Originally Posted by terryansimon View Post
    I find both the young and the old to be equally ungracious in terms of minding their Ps and Qs, albeit via different expressions or lack off.

    the older generation may not be as educated in terms of civic mindedness and social upbringing and know hows, hence they might not have the capacity to react accordingly. either that, or they just take it for granted that since they are in an Asian culture (aka tradition of treating one's elders with respect and dignity), that they expect this sort of behaviour towards them to be the norm.

    the younger generation on the other hand, are just. plain rude at times. despite whatever civics and moral education courses they have gone through in school, it is painfully obvious that such lessons are not sinking in. I have seen on countless number of occasions kids below the age of 21 being rude in the public, be it towards service staff or towards other people in general. the tone in their voice is one that expects a certain set of behaviours/actions to be dished out to them, akin to "you owe me your living therefore you worship the ground beneath my feet" sort of behaviour.

    in essence, each country in the world will have its own short comings. Australia isn't exactly the most sainted location on earth, but I can tell you that even as an outsider living in that country for the past couple of years, I dare say the average population are a whole lot more polite and gracious than the people you encounter in Singapore. and they do not have civics and moral education in their syllabus, and neither do they have campaigns like Courtesy Campaign and what not. that being said, this isn't a case of comparison, it's a case of observation and noticing that such behaviour is becoming commonplace, despite attempts at reform via education and/or campaigning.
    There was an once I saw a kid at McDonal servicing a customer with the standard as expected by the stall.
    Again, I met the same person behaving rudely and unduly at a different places..

    But why?

  5. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yappy View Post
    There was an once I saw a kid at McDonal servicing a customer with the standard as expected by the stall.
    Again, I met the same person behaving rudely and unduly at a different places..

    But why?
    is because while in their job, they are expected not to be rude, but sometimes some of the customers really are pushing the limit.
    maybe they are just behaving the same way as the demanding customers?

    i used to work as a cashier before so sometimes, so sometimes as a customer, i also behaved a bit like the unusual customers i served daily especially when it comes to coin digging in the wallet...

    these are bad habits from a customer but sometimes ppl from the service sector unconsciously end up behaving like their customers.
    is some sort of a cycle effect which i cannot describe...
    Last edited by Simon_84; 5th January 2009 at 03:14 PM.

  6. #146
    Member terryansimon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gracious society...

    I work part time to supplement my income. my line of work requires me to stand behind a counter and serve people as well. I do not dish out lousy service, and neither do I expect lousy attitudes coming my way as well. more often than not, people of countries whose names I shall not mention, are the ones who get on my bad sheet. but Singaporeans? oh. mah. goodness. they really expect you to treat them like royalty, and to go beyond the call of duty to make sure that they lead very comfortable existence. all this whilst 7500km away from Singapore in a place called Melbourne.

    back in Singapore, I see people treating such counter staff with such arrogance and control, that it sickens me to the stomach. it is akin to the counter staff owing them a living, and that they should be at their beck and call at a moment's notice. if the poor counter staff did not hear the order properly, shots of anger would come out from the person's mouth and eyes, and no respect is given to the person's age if the counter staff looks old enough to be their grandmother and/or grandfather.

    don't even get me started on how the majority of the population in this island treats the people who clean up after them at hawker centers. or how domestic workers are treated with the same contempt.

    it's really. REALLY. sad.
    chicken fight!

  7. #147

    Default Re: Gracious society...

    Most of the times,I would clear my own left overs at mac or if someone's left over is still around when i take the seat,i'll just help with their left overs.
    What i notice is that,when i either clear my own tray or someone's tray who ate where i sit earlier,people would look.
    You can't help but think but you know what kind of thoughts these people run along the line of.
    They're probaly thinking "hey why is he clearing those trays when mac has staffs running the show.
    Oh,there's also the common sight where you see customers waving to the staff and point their fingers to the unclear trays.These people couldn't even be bothered to open their dam mouth or say a thanks afterwards.

    Yes,the tissue paper too.
    I would hold the tissue paper and just sit down.If the person ask,i'll just go "I believe it's yours"

  8. #148

    Default Re: Gracious society...

    Quote Originally Posted by terryansimon View Post
    I work part time to supplement my income. my line of work requires me to stand behind a counter and serve people as well. I do not dish out lousy service, and neither do I expect lousy attitudes coming my way as well. more often than not, people of countries whose names I shall not mention, are the ones who get on my bad sheet. but Singaporeans? oh. mah. goodness. they really expect you to treat them like royalty, and to go beyond the call of duty to make sure that they lead very comfortable existence. all this whilst 7500km away from Singapore in a place called Melbourne.

    back in Singapore, I see people treating such counter staff with such arrogance and control, that it sickens me to the stomach. it is akin to the counter staff owing them a living, and that they should be at their beck and call at a moment's notice. if the poor counter staff did not hear the order properly, shots of anger would come out from the person's mouth and eyes, and no respect is given to the person's age if the counter staff looks old enough to be their grandmother and/or grandfather.

    don't even get me started on how the majority of the population in this island treats the people who clean up after them at hawker centers. or how domestic workers are treated with the same contempt.

    it's really. REALLY. sad.
    Yes you see such behaviour around.I usually can't be bothered with petty happenings but if i do see unreasonable and uncivilised behaviours,then i'll tear these people down since my belief and principles is on the line.

  9. #149
    Member terryansimon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gracious society...

    Quote Originally Posted by Giorgio View Post
    Most of the times,I would clear my own left overs at mac or if someone's left over is still around when i take the seat,i'll just help with their left overs.
    What i notice is that,when i either clear my own tray or someone's tray who ate where i sit earlier,people would look.
    You can't help but think but you know what kind of thoughts these people run along the line of.
    They're probaly thinking "hey why is he clearing those trays when mac has staffs running the show.
    Oh,there's also the common sight where you see customers waving to the staff and point their fingers to the unclear trays.These people couldn't even be bothered to open their dam mouth or say a thanks afterwards.
    precisely. I've had friends who tell me that that is what the staff at Maccas are paid for. I told them that the cops are paid to do their jobs too, so if we see a crime being committed, let's not bother running after them or calling the cops. coz afterall, they are the cops and they will know when crime happens coz they are paid to do their job. that is, solving crime and what not!

    seriously. the words lazy can be masked in so many ways, shape, mean or form. at the end of the day, these people just can't be bothered to clear up after themselves, and expect the trays to magically disappear from their table. either that, or the finger points to the cleaner, a grunting sound along the lines of "eh" is produced by the person's nasal passages, and the finger points back towards the table covered in mess, and that weird grunting sound is produced via the nasal passages again. for fecks sake, even if you do not want to clear the trays on your own, is it that hard to ask POLITELY and not do it like how you'd signal to a dog for attention?
    chicken fight!

  10. #150
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    Default Re: Gracious society...

    Quote Originally Posted by terryansimon View Post
    I work part time to supplement my income. my line of work requires me to stand behind a counter and serve people as well. I do not dish out lousy service, and neither do I expect lousy attitudes coming my way as well. more often than not, people of countries whose names I shall not mention, are the ones who get on my bad sheet. but Singaporeans? oh. mah. goodness. they really expect you to treat them like royalty, and to go beyond the call of duty to make sure that they lead very comfortable existence. all this whilst 7500km away from Singapore in a place called Melbourne.

    back in Singapore, I see people treating such counter staff with such arrogance and control, that it sickens me to the stomach. it is akin to the counter staff owing them a living, and that they should be at their beck and call at a moment's notice. if the poor counter staff did not hear the order properly, shots of anger would come out from the person's mouth and eyes, and no respect is given to the person's age if the counter staff looks old enough to be their grandmother and/or grandfather.

    don't even get me started on how the majority of the population in this island treats the people who clean up after them at hawker centers. or how domestic workers are treated with the same contempt.

    it's really. REALLY. sad.
    well said, highly agreed.

    i remembered a case where i got an unnecessary scolding from an old chinese uncle just because i run out of $1 dollar coins and had to open a new tube of coins...in my panic cause the queue was quite long, i dropped a few coins on the floor, bent down to pick up some then he say loudly in chinese slow hands, slow legs...then really push me over the top and i returned back the fire, why not you try it out in my position ?

    he kept quiet and gave me a very grumpy look as if i own him or whatsoever. after this encounter, i serve the rest of the customers with a "very black face" look and managed to clear the queue quite fast.

    sad to say that uncle really spoils my day...in the cashiering line in sg, it only takes 1 person to make your day bad.
    the only way i learn to relax is to take 2 or 3 deep breaths before replying to some unreasonable customers just in case they put words into my mouth right in front of the supervisor.

    and not to mention there are the so called rich sg customers who want to pay their low value transactions using credit cards...
    Last edited by Simon_84; 5th January 2009 at 05:28 PM.

  11. #151

    Default Re: Gracious society...

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon_84 View Post
    is because while in their job, they are expected not to be rude, but sometimes some of the customers really are pushing the limit.
    maybe they are just behaving the same way as the demanding customers?

    i used to work as a cashier before so sometimes, so sometimes as a customer, i also behaved a bit like the unusual customers i served daily especially when it comes to coin digging in the wallet...

    these are bad habits from a customer but sometimes ppl from the service sector unconsciously end up behaving like their customers.
    is some sort of a cycle effect which i cannot describe...
    ppl can actually control themselves if they choose to do so. If everybody does the same, then the world will be a better place to live.

    Why not. It starts with you and me!

  12. #152
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    Default Re: Gracious society...

    Ruching could be the main problem......everyone trying to rush. Rush. Not sure for what reasons. Just like this morning on the bus.....people are rushing to get down of the bus....even when they knew that the bus-stop isn't going anyway. Its funny to see how people actually rush to get thier EZ-link cards tapped....even before they are at the door.

  13. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by sulhan View Post
    Ruching could be the main problem......everyone trying to rush. Rush. Not sure for what reasons. Just like this morning on the bus.....people are rushing to get down of the bus....even when they knew that the bus-stop isn't going anyway. Its funny to see how people actually rush to get thier EZ-link cards tapped....even before they are at the door.
    I agree. somehow when human beings are placed in a situation that requires them to work in a "rushed" manner, bad mannerisms and behaviours tend to be exhibited more. for what reason this might be the case, I have no idea. all I know is, peak hour traffic brings out the worse in everybody. peak hour traffic + hot weather the beast in everybody. peak hour traffic + hot weather + afternoon breeze. the deadliest combination. ever.

    but still, the world might be collapsing around as and meteors might be crashing into the planet Armageddon style.. but does not change us into savage beasts. we're still human, capable of feeling pain and hurt, not to mention dishing it out as well. just because we are in a pressure cooker situation such as rush hour/trying to squeeze onto the bus/etc, does not excuse us in behaving like primeval animals from days of before with little to no civic manners and awareness.
    chicken fight!

  14. #154

    Default Re: Gracious society...

    Quote Originally Posted by sulhan View Post
    Ruching could be the main problem......everyone trying to rush. Rush. Not sure for what reasons. Just like this morning on the bus.....people are rushing to get down of the bus....even when they knew that the bus-stop isn't going anyway. Its funny to see how people actually rush to get thier EZ-link cards tapped....even before they are at the door.
    Typical of Singaporeans.

  15. #155

    Default Re: Gracious society...

    Quote Originally Posted by terryansimon View Post
    I agree. somehow when human beings are placed in a situation that requires them to work in a "rushed" manner, bad mannerisms and behaviours tend to be exhibited more. for what reason this might be the case, I have no idea. all I know is, peak hour traffic brings out the worse in everybody. peak hour traffic + hot weather the beast in everybody. peak hour traffic + hot weather + afternoon breeze. the deadliest combination. ever.

    but still, the world might be collapsing around as and meteors might be crashing into the planet Armageddon style.. but does not change us into savage beasts. we're still human, capable of feeling pain and hurt, not to mention dishing it out as well. just because we are in a pressure cooker situation such as rush hour/trying to squeeze onto the bus/etc, does not excuse us in behaving like primeval animals from days of before with little to no civic manners and awareness.
    Time=$$$

    Rush to everywhere, Rush to run errand, Rush to the buy minibond... rush to catch the best deal rush, rush rush, rush....

  16. #156

    Default Re: Gracious society...

    Quote Originally Posted by terryansimon View Post
    I am alarmed and perturbed by the sheer number of ungracious people I encounter in Singapore, who seem to have taken for granted that basic courtesy is a two way street that we all should ideally be in.

    however, just because 95% of the people I encounter do not bother saying thank you to me after holding the door for them/getting out of the seat for them/giving way to them/insert other general nice stuff that one can do, I do feel discouraged. but I tell myself that I've done my part, and if you can't do your part to show appreciation, then it's really your loss and not mine. if it really is too hard for you to show a sign of appreciation via a smile/quick nod of the head/flash of the hand/a verbal response, then to me it just shows what sort of a person you are to not do something as simple as giving a response. asking you to write a PhD thesis on it is painful, time consuming, and not to mention sheer torture. so surely, expecting a simple two worded reply that goes "thank you" is much easier than doing a PhD thesis, no?
    U happened to be in Singapore 95% of your stay?

  17. #157

    Default Re: Gracious society...

    Quote Originally Posted by terryansimon View Post
    precisely. I've had friends who tell me that that is what the staff at Maccas are paid for. I told them that the cops are paid to do their jobs too, so if we see a crime being committed, let's not bother running after them or calling the cops. coz afterall, they are the cops and they will know when crime happens coz they are paid to do their job. that is, solving crime and what not!

    seriously. the words lazy can be masked in so many ways, shape, mean or form. at the end of the day, these people just can't be bothered to clear up after themselves, and expect the trays to magically disappear from their table. either that, or the finger points to the cleaner, a grunting sound along the lines of "eh" is produced by the person's nasal passages, and the finger points back towards the table covered in mess, and that weird grunting sound is produced via the nasal passages again. for fecks sake, even if you do not want to clear the trays on your own, is it that hard to ask POLITELY and not do it like how you'd signal to a dog for attention?

    Actually i'd like the mac c level & mid level folk to get a pay cut, spread the cash down to the ground, hire more locals to clear the trays and make burgers that look like the pictures at the counter.

    all those in favour should stop clearing their trays.

  18. #158
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    Default Re: Gracious society...

    Quote Originally Posted by Nisa View Post
    And i will be the one making a loud remark " I didn't know i am hired here to hold the lift" or "did you forget to say thank you?"
    I would normally just say, "You're welcome!" or "Thank you!"


  19. #159

    Default Re: Gracious society...

    gracious, hehe... i truly wish it were and i have always tried to do my part, but baby, at the end of the day, a fat man is still fat, an ugly lady is still ugly, and singapore is what it is...

    anyway, mods, i hope you guys give this thread a rest and put it to sleep. it does nothing for anyone two three or four. people love it, people hate it, and that about sums it up.

  20. #160
    Member terryansimon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gracious society...

    Quote Originally Posted by shojibake View Post
    Actually i'd like the mac c level & mid level folk to get a pay cut, spread the cash down to the ground, hire more locals to clear the trays and make burgers that look like the pictures at the counter.

    all those in favour should stop clearing their trays.
    not taking a swipe at you... but you do flush after going to the loo, yah?

    I don't see why it's so hard to clear up after one's own mess. you did create that mess after all, unless somebody tripped into your table full of food whilst trying to check a sheila out (yes. it has happened. to me. I was the one checking the sheila out. )
    chicken fight!

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