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Thread: Gracious society...

  1. #41

    Default Re: Gracious society...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sion View Post
    Fines!
    that obviously didnt work or else we wont have this topic - do you not remember the first time fines were introduced for littering? And is littering better or worst today?

    and fines is probably one of the reason why we have the "money can do anything" value/culture: as long as I can pay, I can get away with almost anything.

    and fines also exemplify the "steroid" approach to problems and the "work smart not hard" mentality, ie address the immediate, short term, visible, and get your promotion and bonuses and leave the basic, necessary, deeper and harder problems to some poorer sucker with lower IQ ...

    and finally fines are a delusion and not solutions, and may even be habitually abused against a populace too deadened and educated by pay pay pay to realise it

  2. #42
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    Default Re: Gracious society...

    Well the fines did help to reduce the amount of litters everywhere which was their bottomline. LOL! Bottomlines here... bottomlines there...

    Where's the courtesy lion when we need him? Maybe Sion took his costume away... Kekekeke...

  3. #43

    Default Re: Gracious society...

    Quote Originally Posted by espion View Post
    that obviously didnt work or else we wont have this topic - do you not remember the first time fines were introduced for littering? And is littering better or worst today?

    and fines is probably one of the reason why we have the "money can do anything" value/culture: as long as I can pay, I can get away with almost anything.

    and fines also exemplify the "steroid" approach to problems and the "work smart not hard" mentality, ie address the immediate, short term, visible, and get your promotion and bonuses and leave the basic, necessary, deeper and harder problems to some poorer sucker with lower IQ ...

    and finally fines are a delusion and not solutions, and may even be habitually abused against a populace too deadened and educated by pay pay pay to realise it
    The chances that you get fine is very slim. Only when you are dam ..

    Nobody like to be fined but evrybody knows that unless you are so unlucky, normally you would get away with it.

    It is not a solution but a deterrent.

  4. #44

    Default Re: Gracious society...

    Quote Originally Posted by Yappy View Post
    The chances that you get fine is very slim. Only when you are dam ..

    Nobody like to be fined but evrybody knows that unless you are so unlucky, normally you would get away with it.

    It is not a solution but a deterrent.
    its a rather poor deterrent, going by what i see on the streets
    It is such a quiet thing to fall,
    But far more terrible is to admit it

  5. #45

    Default Re: Gracious society...

    Quote Originally Posted by Yappy View Post
    ... normally you would get away with it. It is not a solution but a deterrent.
    in other words, do anything but dont get caught; and deter? hardly, only makes you cleverer at evasion and escape tactics.

    There may be better ways to use the huge amount of resources needed to - seemingly in futility - enforce fines.

  6. #46
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    Default Re: Gracious society...

    little effort in place to enforce a law against littering, makes a mockery of it.

  7. #47

    Default Re: Gracious society...

    Quote Originally Posted by shidyar View Post
    Allow me to rant a little here.

    Graciousness actually starts from home..
    We have to educate our children. Graciousness is not a personality trait that is variable from one person to another. It is nurture... education.. upbringing.. Graciousness is Discipline..we have to show our children. If you are a gracious person.. a kind person.. chances are you have been brought up with the same influence. what is graciousness..
    In a house hold where we show our children how we treat maids like personal slaves .. How gracisou can they be? I have seen a little boy screaming demanding from the maid to get him a glass of water when it is just two steps away from him. I won't blame the Government.. no amount of government campaigning can change what is instilled in you since young..
    ..
    Haha, I totally agreed. However,

    1. Every parents are busy in making money, where got time?!!

    2. Every get together session with the children are so precious, who would want to discipline them during this "precious" moment?!!

    3. Our Government not only encouraging but going all way out plus throwing in rich incentives , so as to let the parents have their concentration and time to make money, while on the other hand getting even better "Professionals" to look after our children.

    4. So, do the parents still need to teach their children anything? Well, since the "Professionals" are paid for to do it. (Haha, if you read My Paper, there are even classes to teach children on courtesy, etc. that stir up some discussions there.) What the parents can do now is just to buy every damn thing the children want, and put them into any best stuff the parents can find, in order damper their guilty feeling of not having enough times.

    5. So, what about those parents who quit their jobs to fully look after their children in order to better up bring the child's character and behaviour for a gracious society in the next few generations? What do they get after having to live with a much lower household income? Not even a nut! But please correct me, if I'm wrong.

    Seriously, I really no eyes see, everytime I visit IKEA (just one of the many examples). Gracious Society? With the life we are encouraged to live? Haha, wait long long lah!
    Last edited by cheeseme; 23rd September 2008 at 05:08 PM.

  8. #48
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    Default Re: Gracious society...

    Quote Originally Posted by sORe-EyEz View Post
    little effort in place to enforce a law against littering, makes a mockery of it.
    I never really like the monetary punishment approach to solving this. It punishes the poor into being good but the rich gets aways with it. That is not a fair system. And you learn nothing with the opening of one's wallet. I am a very strong advocate of Manual labor enforcement and shaming. You have a brain...if you don't how to use it... then you pay the price. No need violence and other petty enforcement like "token" fines. There was a time people caught littering were made to take time off to go clean the park...notice that it is no longer happening. I say go beyond parks... go into the heartlands..make them cut grass, clean rubbish chute.... you know...honest living jobs that "builds" character. No one can bitch the government for taking more "fines" at the same time do some good for society. The more times they get caught..no problem... expand the durations...let them keep their jobs but make sure to use all their free time to do work. I don't see how hard that can be implemented. Who knows...all this "lost cause losers" might regains some humanity in the process. I believe that sometime you have to be cruel to be kind.

    If you don't litter or do ungracious things like me..you really have nothing to fear or worry if the authority implement something like this. Everyday I try to look for as many good things done as oppose to bad stuff done...the sad part...the good is losing.
    Last edited by sammy888; 23rd September 2008 at 09:22 PM.

  9. #49
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    Default Re: Gracious society...

    still the question of enforcement remains...

  10. #50
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    Default Re: Gracious society...

    Quote Originally Posted by sORe-EyEz View Post
    still the question of enforcement remains...
    maybe it's just me but enforcement usually breeds contempt...

  11. #51

    Default Re: Gracious society...

    Quote Originally Posted by shidyar View Post
    maybe it's just me but enforcement usually breeds contempt...
    Singapore breeds contempt. its strange, how Singaporeans (in general) respect authority, and yet show such contempt towards certain laws.
    It is such a quiet thing to fall,
    But far more terrible is to admit it

  12. #52
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    Default Re: Gracious society...

    I'd say it's as much as the authority has done for the general good .. some of those laws are just plain SILLY..lol

  13. #53
    Senior Member sammy888's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gracious society...

    Quote Originally Posted by shidyar View Post
    maybe it's just me but enforcement usually breeds contempt...
    Well then every sons and daughter are having a hell of a time since enforcement is part and parcel of good child upbringing heheheh

    Maybe that is why we have them kids growing up with such a comtemptous mentality heheh
    Last edited by sammy888; 24th September 2008 at 12:35 PM.

  14. #54

    Default Re: Gracious society...

    We need a combination of all to change. Education, enforcement, promotion.

    It will take a long time before Singaporean becomes gracious, considerate, compassion, kind, caring etc etc....

    All of these must start somewhere.

  15. #55

    Default Re: Gracious society...

    Actually public education through fine system is quite good what.
    Where in the world can you find officers going to the toilet, watch you pull out and pee, and then fine you for not flushing?

    Tell me where? LOL

  16. #56
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    Default Re: Gracious society...

    Quote Originally Posted by shidyar View Post
    maybe it's just me but enforcement usually breeds contempt...
    adequate enforcement won't, the lack of it will... littering fines is just 1 that lacks enforcement which bred contempt. to say its not feaseable to enforce adequately is lame excuse.

  17. #57
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    Default Re: Gracious society...

    Quote Originally Posted by contaxable View Post
    Where in the world can you find officers going to the toilet, watch you pull out and pee, and then fine you for not flushing?
    As far as can tell, not in Singapore.

    Over several years in Singapore, I've seen dozens of cases of littering, serious traffic violations, smoking in non-smoking zones, electricity/water theft, serious violations of basic workplace safety/public safety (e.g. unsecured gas cylinders, failure to wear PPE), etc. etc. every single day I got out of the house, almost always openly with impunity. Except for some sparse traffic police activity, I don't remember seeing a single act of enforcement.

  18. #58
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    Default Re: Gracious society...

    the lack of enforcement enbolden those who break 'petty' (littering, noise polluting beyond specific hours) laws.

    ... then some1 will start the thread "do good guys (people) win".
    Last edited by sORe-EyEz; 24th September 2008 at 10:47 PM.

  19. #59
    Senior Member Sion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gracious society...

    For the evidence of a gracious society we have to visit our local motorshows.
    Last edited by Sion; 24th September 2008 at 11:09 PM.

  20. #60
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    Default Re: Gracious society...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sion View Post
    For the evidence of a gracious society we have to visit our local motorshows.
    how can u let men take all the credits!

    a better example would be NDP, everybody is accounted for- all ages, both genders, all demographics!

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