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Thread: Gracious society...

  1. #1

    Default Gracious society...

    Are we?

    We think highly of ourselves!

    We litter when we are in foreign country!

    We do not return the plates and bowls after meal at the food centre eventhough we were told in school to do so for at least 10 years.

    We welcome and yet do not welcome foreign workers! We do not want them to be our neighbour because one or two misbehave. The choice is either they are near to you or they are near to other Singaporeans.

    So Singaporeans.... we are first in many areas. Do we want to be first in this too?

  2. #2

    Default Re: Gracious society...

    Speak for urself and not others.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Gracious society...

    20 years later, inconsiderate Singaporeans will still chope seats using tissue packs and people will still stuck at front of bus.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Gracious society...

    wah this topic has spawned alot of threads.


    We'll still be this kiasu/kiasi, if not worse, 10 years down the road. people will still stay near the front/doors of buses and trains, will still cut queues, still look down on foreign domestic and construction workers, still chope seats with tissue paper, still spit and litter, still not give up seats to the elderly, pregnant or those who need it more. (Of course, not all Singaporeans behave in this manner.)

    In short, we'll still be Singaporean. I'm proud of our country and what it has achieved, but I'm not too proud about some of our people and their/our habits.
    It is such a quiet thing to fall,
    But far more terrible is to admit it

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Gracious society...

    actually what's the solution to this problem?

  6. #6

    Default Re: Gracious society...

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul_Yeo View Post
    actually what's the solution to this problem?
    a sweeping change in the mentality of Singaporeans in general. beyond that, i have no idea this kind of thing blardy hard to change.
    It is such a quiet thing to fall,
    But far more terrible is to admit it

  7. #7

    Default Re: Gracious society...

    shrugs it's not like other cultures are so gracious either.
    Some play it up as part of their culture.
    I find the most effective way is to lead by example. People are shocked when you give way and makes them abit embarrassed too. Pass it on

  8. #8

    Default Re: Gracious society...

    Quote Originally Posted by mattlock View Post
    shrugs it's not like other cultures are so gracious either.
    Some play it up as part of their culture.
    I find the most effective way is to lead by example. People are shocked when you give way and makes them abit embarrassed too. Pass it on

    Heh, I second your statement matt.

    I see graciousness as an individual attribute rather than societal or culturally-wide behaviour.

    Give up your seat, busk your tables, thank the cleaners - others may stare, your friends may baulk, but you will be the one feeling good about yourself.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Gracious society...

    can i state some modest achievements?

    most people now move to 1 side of escalators, we don't spit like we used to, seats were 'given up' more often these days to those who need it. but we still got many areas to improve on...

    1 can do so much, on the other hand others have to chip in to make it happen. just look at the effort put in for F1, u get the idea.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Gracious society...

    Quote Originally Posted by mattlock View Post
    shrugs it's not like other cultures are so gracious either.
    Some play it up as part of their culture.
    I find the most effective way is to lead by example. People are shocked when you give way and makes them abit embarrassed too. Pass it on
    some people are not shocked nor embarrased...instead they will take for granted. many times, I waited for people rushing for the lift by pressing the door open, but when they got in, they just ignore me, without any thankyou, just take for granted.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Gracious society...

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul_Yeo View Post
    some people are not shocked nor embarrased...instead they will take for granted. many times, I waited for people rushing for the lift by pressing the door open, but when they got in, they just ignore me, without any thankyou, just take for granted.
    And i will be the one making a loud remark " I didn't know i am hired here to hold the lift" or "did you forget to say thank you?"
    Last edited by Nisa; 22nd September 2008 at 05:27 PM.

  12. #12
    Moderator ziploc's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gracious society...

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul_Yeo View Post
    some people are not shocked nor embarrased...instead they will take for granted. many times, I waited for people rushing for the lift by pressing the door open, but when they got in, they just ignore me, without any thankyou, just take for granted.
    Haha... same for giving up seat on the bus, especially to the younger generation. Most of the time when I give up my seat to pregnant ladies, I don't even get a smile back, let alone a thank you. It is like you owe the seat to them. So nowadays I tend to give up seat to elder people only.

  13. #13
    Senior Member velasco's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gracious society...

    Quote Originally Posted by Yappy View Post
    Are we?

    We think highly of ourselves!

    We litter when we are in foreign country!

    We do not return the plates and bowls after meal at the food centre eventhough we were told in school to do so for at least 10 years.

    We welcome and yet do not welcome foreign workers! We do not want them to be our neighbour because one or two misbehave. The choice is either they are near to you or they are near to other Singaporeans.

    So Singaporeans.... we are first in many areas. Do we want to be first in this too?

    First in what? Being the most gracious society on Earth?
    I personally believe that judging on deeds as a collective will result in generalization. There are always anomalies in societal trends and this is not an exception. An individual's habits, judgements and perceptions should not be a fair assessment of the whole society.

    The points you dropped above are generalization and only reflects on some members of the society.Some people do deeds for charity so they donot voice out and brag about them. Some


    will continue when i reach home...hehehe

  14. #14

    Default Re: Gracious society...

    The answer is values; the question is what are the values valued today.

    And that is a different question from what is taught in the schools or elsewhere, including the family.

    Anyone, including children can see what is really valued, and what is merely said so, and conversely, what can be seen, need not be said.

    So what are the real valued Singaporean values? Perhaps some of these:

    • No 1
    • Winning at all costs
    • Success even if it beggars your neighbour
    • Not in my backyard especially if my condo/bungalow/semi-D valuation drops
    • Do anything but don't get caught
    • Work smart not work hard
    • No right and wrong except for what the government says
    • Money can do anything and everything
    • Better follow the crowd than stand out even if you believe the crowd is wrong


    So what can we do about it?

    Do you want to do anything about it?

    Its the government problem isnt it?

    We are what we are. Take it or leave it.

    But if foreigners dont invest/become PR/etc if they perceive us poorly then maybe it matters. But then again, investments and PR policies are not the private citizen's concern, and I am sure the people in China are no less worst and yet money keeps pouring in, and all the world wants to get a green card. So there again it does not matter to anyone.

    People wont look down on us if we have money. Money speaks louder than anything else. So lets just focused on getting rich and move on and everything else don't matter.

    The world will accept us for who we are. Period. That is if we are rich.

    Whats the point of being gracious but poor. The world will then bully you, ignore you, and step on you, etc. So lets get our priorities right, and not think too much, but instead spend our limited thinking power on IR, and F1, and of course the not-yet-over global financial crisis.
    Last edited by espion; 22nd September 2008 at 11:03 PM.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Gracious society...

    Quote Originally Posted by espion View Post
    The answer is values; the question is what are the values valued today.

    And that is a different question from what is thought in the schools or elsewhere, including the family.

    Anyone, including children can see what is really valued, and what is merely said so, and conversely, what can be seen, need not be said.

    So what are the real valued Singaporean values? Perhaps some of these:

    • No 1
    • Winning at all costs
    • Success even if it beggars your neighbour
    • Not in my backyard especially if my condo/bungalow/semi-D valuation drops
    • Do anything but don't get caught
    • Work smart not work hard
    • No right and wrong except for what the government says
    • Money can do anything and everything
    • Better follow the crowd than stand out even if you believe the crowd is wrong


    So what can we do about it?

    Do you want to do anything about it?

    Its the government problem isnt it?

    We are what we are. Take it or leave it.

    But if foreigners dont invest/become PR/etc if they perceive us poorly then maybe it matters. But then again, investments and PR policies are not the private citizen's concern, and I am sure the people in China are no less worst and yet money keeps pouring in, and all the world wants to get a green card. So there again it does not matter to anyone.

    People wont look down on us if we have money. Money speaks louder than anything else. So lets just focused on getting rich and move on and everything else don't matter.

    The world will accept us for who we are. Period. That is if we are rich.

    Whats the point of being gracious but poor. The world will then bully you, ignore you, and step on you, etc. So lets get our priorities right, and not think too much, but instead spend our limited thinking power on IR, and F1, and of course the not-yet-over global financial crisis.
    Errrrr I think there was a poor old man who had no money and was damn poor to the point he had to make his own clothes.... I think he managed to topple the rule of an empire and free a nation.. and he was gracious like no other... Think his name was Gandhi or something.....

  16. #16
    Member terryansimon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gracious society...

    Quote Originally Posted by aeskywan View Post
    Errrrr I think there was a poor old man who had no money and was damn poor to the point he had to make his own clothes.... I think he managed to topple the rule of an empire and free a nation.. and he was gracious like no other... Think his name was Gandhi or something.....
    I'm pretty certain Gandhi wasn't as poor as what you painted him out to be. he encouraged a simplistic lifestyle but his background was definitely no pauper-like condition. still doesn't change the fact that he was a great man though. awesome portrayal by Ben Kingsley as well.
    chicken fight!

  17. #17
    Senior Member azul123's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gracious society...

    Ghandi was a lawyer. A learned man.

    ../azul123

  18. #18

    Default Re: Gracious society...

    Quote Originally Posted by terryansimon View Post
    I'm pretty certain Gandhi wasn't as poor as what you painted him out to be. he encouraged a simplistic lifestyle but his background was definitely no pauper-like condition. still doesn't change the fact that he was a great man though. awesome portrayal by Ben Kingsley as well.
    What I am trying to say is that Gandhi chose to lead a life of simplicity and yet this simplistic lifestyle managed to topple the British Raj..... contrary to the following beliefs..

    I speak in riddles you see so as not to be accused of making personal attacks.


    "People wont look down on us if we have money. Money speaks louder than anything else. So lets just focused on getting rich and move on and everything else don't matter.

    The world will accept us for who we are. Period. That is if we are rich.

    Whats the point of being gracious but poor. The world will then bully you, ignore you, and step on you, etc."
    Last edited by aeskywan; 22nd September 2008 at 09:09 PM.

  19. #19
    Senior Member azul123's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gracious society...

    oic... what you are getting at, I was stunned by that post also.

    ../azul123

  20. #20

    Default Re: Gracious society...

    Quote Originally Posted by aeskywan View Post
    I speak in riddles ...
    Thats good.

    And I hope you can recognise satire too.

    But just to take up the Gandhi metaphor, how many Gandhis were there after Gandhi?

    And even if Gandhi can topple the British Raj, how many would want to do it that way these days? For there is also Fidel Castro, Che Guevara, Mao Tse Tung, and of course Osama bin Laden, etc etc. So many models to emulate. And then there is Money with the big capital M, sometimes working unseen and unknown and without records for historians to make history.

    So, like they always say, its your choice, for there is no right or wrong.

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