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Thread: The Best Damn Tour - Carried forward from "Ready, Lights, Action!"

  1. #1

    Default The Best Damn Tour - Carried forward from "Ready, Lights, Action!"

    Hi all,

    I have sent the reply out and have gotten a very rude and unprofessional reply. Refer: http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=412925

    My reply:

    From: Jeffrey
    Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 10:30 PM
    To: michael@midaspromotions.com; stephen@midaspromotions.com
    Cc: catherine@sis.gov.sg; raymondtan@sis.gov.sg
    Subject: Re: Unpleasent experience at the best damn tour concert

    Hello

    Thank you for your reply.

    I trust that you are aware that for this particular concert, the only stipulation was against flash photography. There is no stipulation that “professional” cameras are not allowed for this concert. Your security personnel cannot simply make up new rules/regulations and conditions on-site during the concert.

    The definition of “professional” will never stand up in a court of law since there is no objective test for determining what “professional” means. Is a photographer who uses a compact digicam for a living deemed to be using a "professional" camera? Who decides?

    To me, it doesn’t matter whose employment the security team falls under, whether your company or Sistic. Even if the security personnel works for Sistic, he is deemed to be following your company’s instructions and hence, I will look to your company as being responsible for this entire episode.

    As a customer, it matters not to me what your obligations to the artist and her management is, all I am concerned about is the terms and conditions governing the contract between me and you. If you decide that it’s better to breach your contract with me rather than to risk conflict with the artist/management, it is your choice to make – of course it is easy for someone to conclude that your company would rather bully the small man than to anger the big entertainment artist. If this is the case, you can be sure that I will spare no efforts in making this unpleasant episode and your poor handling of this matter widely publicized.

    Also, a simple “Sorry” that the Sistic website was not clear will not excuse a breach of contract. By throwing me out of the concert without just cause (since I complied with all terms and conditions governing this contract), you have knowingly breached your obligations under the contract.

    Also, to say that "Most people understand these issues" is a non-starter, since unfortunately, I do not understand this issue. I only go by what is agreed in black and white, and in this case, the only prohibition is against flash photography and videography. I did not use a flash and was definitely not recording any video of the concert.

    I can easily say that "most photographer understand that non-flash photography means they can use a DSLR so long as they do not use a flash". It all depends on whose side of the coin you are looking from.

    I put it to you that it is not the artist who “allows” such snaps as you claim, but that the security team does not have sufficient manpower and cannot enforce the vast numbers of people owning camera phones and point-and-shoot cameras. To throw out a few hundred people would cause a public relations spectacle and headlines indeed.

    As a result, the security can only target the concert goers who have “professional” cameras and thus, I am being unfairly prejudiced, apart from the fact that there is no restriction on non-flash photography to begin with.

    I further put it to you that from a consumer point of view, a point-and-shoot camera would cause greater inconvenience to other concert-goers, as most of these people would raise their hands up high trying to take shots, blocking the viewer behind.

    In any case, we are digressing. The root of the issue here is that the prohibition against DSLRs have not been sufficiently brought to my notice before purchase of the ticket, and your admission on the lack of clarity on the Sistic website further underscores this point.

    Since there is no notice, a customer cannot expect to be bound by this condition, and by evicting the customer, you have committed breach of contract.

    I look forward to receiving your reply.

    Jeffrey


    Their reply:

    From: Michael Hosking
    To: 'Jeffrey' ; stephen@midaspromotions.com
    Cc: catherine@sis.gov.sg ; raymondtan@sis.gov.sg
    Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 6:43 AM
    Subject: RE: Unpleasent experience at the best damn tour concert


    Not sure who you are sending his to?

    I did not throw you out. I also don’t have a contract with you.

    Trust this clarifies.

    This is my last message to you on this subject.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I'm disgusted and speechless.

  2. #2

    Default Re: The Best Damn Tour - Carried forward from "Ready, Lights, Action!"

    Obviously you're dealing with an incompetent, or someone pretending to be incompetent.

    I'm not sure what your options are, legally speaking, but it looks like you've hit a brick wall here.

    If it were me, I would find out all possible avenues I could take and get due process, and hopefully, resolve.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: The Best Damn Tour - Carried forward from "Ready, Lights, Action!"

    me and my friend bought our dslr in, no flash and no zoom lens, no problem, only just a "unfriendly" reminder not to flash or they will throw us out.
    but inside the concert, everyone was flashing away with their p&s, talk about double standards...

  4. #4
    vince123123
    Guests

    Default Re: The Best Damn Tour - Carried forward from "Ready, Lights, Action!"

    Just to check a few points:

    1. Who was the organiser of the event? This Midas Promotions? Is the ticket a contract with Midas Promotions?

    2. Who controlls the Security Guard? He's under Singapore Indoor Stadium but takes instructions from Midas Promotions right?

    I'll prepare a reply for you once I know these two.

  5. #5

    Default Re: The Best Damn Tour - Carried forward from "Ready, Lights, Action!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Dream Merchant View Post
    Obviously you're dealing with an incompetent, or someone pretending to be incompetent.

    I'm not sure what your options are, legally speaking, but it looks like you've hit a brick wall here.

    If it were me, I would find out all possible avenues I could take and get due process, and hopefully, resolve.
    pretending to be incompetent is what this michael hosking's trying to be no doubt. being the CEO of a huge entertainment/promotions company and to provide such a low class reply is certainly

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon_84 View Post
    me and my friend bought our dslr in, no flash and no zoom lens, no problem, only just a "unfriendly" reminder not to flash or they will throw us out.
    but inside the concert, everyone was flashing away with their p&s, talk about double standards...
    exactly!

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    Just to check a few points:

    1. Who was the organiser of the event? This Midas Promotions? Is the ticket a contract with Midas Promotions?

    2. Who controlls the Security Guard? He's under Singapore Indoor Stadium but takes instructions from Midas Promotions right?

    I'll prepare a reply for you once I know these two.
    Vince, Midas Promotions is the organiser and the promoter. I suppose they paid SIS a certain amount of the money for it to be "organised". There is a one liner (point number 13) stated at the back of the ticket stub that says "Any complaints regarding the event will be directed and dealt with by the Promoter".

    According to a Raymond, who is overall in-charge of the security at SIS, there were several agencies hired for security during the concert. But yes, all instructions are taken by Midas Promotions for sure, since they are the ones that set the rule. Their money, their concert, their rules.

    Thanks for your help.

  6. #6
    vince123123
    Guests

    Default Re: The Best Damn Tour - Carried forward from "Ready, Lights, Action!"

    Eh who is the "Promoter" then? Midas?

  7. #7
    vince123123
    Guests

    Default Re: The Best Damn Tour - Carried forward from "Ready, Lights, Action!"

    Oh yes, and other than Clubsnap, can you go post your story in as many forums as possible? It will be useful in the reply I'm thinking of sending

  8. #8

    Default Re: The Best Damn Tour - Carried forward from "Ready, Lights, Action!"

    The promoter is Midas. Michael Hosking's company. Hope this helps .

  9. #9

    Default Re: The Best Damn Tour - Carried forward from "Ready, Lights, Action!"

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    Oh yes, and other than Clubsnap, can you go post your story in as many forums as possible? It will be useful in the reply I'm thinking of sending
    Will get my friends to do so, hardwarezone?

  10. #10

    Default Re: The Best Damn Tour - Carried forward from "Ready, Lights, Action!"

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    Oh yes, and other than Clubsnap, can you go post your story in as many forums as possible? It will be useful in the reply I'm thinking of sending
    ou ou ou vince you are sooooo devious



    wow thats REALLY bad PR from Midas... If any of my clients ever did that I'd just faint and die. You could send an email to places like the new paper and lianhe wanbao, give them even more bad press. include the emails and his replies (err vince are the emails private and confidential? legally, i mean?)

    If this guy you're corressponding with is highly ranked in the company, he should know better.
    It is such a quiet thing to fall,
    But far more terrible is to admit it

  11. #11

    Default Re: The Best Damn Tour - Carried forward from "Ready, Lights, Action!"

    Quote Originally Posted by freshjetblast View Post
    Will get my friends to do so, hardwarezone?
    HWZone, Stomp, Sgforums, i'll list more once i think of them.
    It is such a quiet thing to fall,
    But far more terrible is to admit it

  12. #12
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    Default Re: The Best Damn Tour - Carried forward from "Ready, Lights, Action!"

    don't forget vr-zone.

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    Default Re: The Best Damn Tour - Carried forward from "Ready, Lights, Action!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon_84 View Post
    don't forget vr-zone.
    not forgetting Singapore's Famous Music Forum, www.soft.com ( than click on their forum ) than put up ur story there.

  14. #14

    Default Re: The Best Damn Tour - Carried forward from "Ready, Lights, Action!"

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    Oh yes, and other than Clubsnap, can you go post your story in as many forums as possible? It will be useful in the reply I'm thinking of sending

    Any way to get the New paper to publish this ?

  15. #15
    Moderator ortega's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Best Damn Tour - Carried forward from "Ready, Lights, Action!"

    i am sure that there are reporters that are members of CS
    or you can try calling their editor up

  16. #16

    Default Re: The Best Damn Tour - Carried forward from "Ready, Lights, Action!"

    Quote Originally Posted by xeno84ph View Post
    Any way to get the New paper to publish this ?
    think of a story angle for it, and send it in. they may. I'll go look for my journo contacts and see what they say.
    It is such a quiet thing to fall,
    But far more terrible is to admit it

  17. #17
    Senior Member zac08's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Best Damn Tour - Carried forward from "Ready, Lights, Action!"

    Any updates on this issue?
    Michael Lim
    My Flickr Site

  18. #18

    Default Re: The Best Damn Tour - Carried forward from "Ready, Lights, Action!"

    Quote Originally Posted by zac08 View Post
    Any updates on this issue?
    Guys, have been really really busy this past week and will be for the next couple of weeks to come. I just sent out a briefly constructed email. Not sure if the points I raised are relevant, but I doubt that he will reply...

    ---------------------

    I am sending this email to you, as well as all those included as recipients and cc in my previous email. If you feel that this entire episode doesn't concern you, as a promoter, kindly let me know and I will pursue a reply from the "guilty" parties. FYI, there is a one liner (point number 13) stated at the back of the ticket stub that says "Any complaints regarding the event will be directed and dealt with by the Promoter".

    A ticket is a contract between the buyer and the seller, unless the terms and conditions at the back of the ticket stub is irrelevant and not to be observed, I don't see why it isn't a contract.

    Your reply to me is disappointing. I expected a more sincere and competent reply.

    Rest assured that I will not let this matter rest. I have already brought this matter to the attention of the public at large through the many online forums and am in the midst of lodging a complaint to CASE.

    It takes two hands to clap and it wouldn't have come to this if you had exercised better PR. This is no way to treat a customer.

    Jeffrey

    ----------------------------------------

    I actually have yet to post this on the other forums you guys mentioned. If possible, those with accounts at the other forums can please help to post? Greatly appreciate.

  19. #19

    Default Re: The Best Damn Tour - Carried forward from "Ready, Lights, Action!"


  20. #20
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    Default Re: The Best Damn Tour - Carried forward from "Ready, Lights, Action!"

    have already help u posted on Singapore Music Forum :

    http://soft.com.sg/forum/music-kopi-...tml#post726784


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