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Thread: conflict?

  1. #41
    wowowoof
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    Default Re: conflict?

    To Mr Leong23:

    Do follow the thread before you suggest any idea of a hidden agenda. If you are not in the loop, please read up beofre putting in your say. As Mr Vonlichenstein already mentioned, it was meant to be a rhetorical question. At least someone understands.

    To Mr Ortega:

    Thank you for being so honest by mentioning that you do not know exactly what had happen that warranted the shoot organiser/ course organiser to be booted out. I take my hats off to you for this. You are someone whom I can respect.

    From what I hear, they were booted out because they happen to set up a booth with CS during one of the photography exhibitions last year, as was informed to me by my sources. If that was the case, it would not have contradicted with your rules as there was no pushing/ pulling away from the forum itself, isn't it?

  2. #42
    wowowoof
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    Default Re: conflict?

    I have a suggestion, why not let the administrator/ moderator who found the contradiction and that it convened with rules and regulations as set out by CS clear the doubt for all, once and for all?

    Many thanks in advance to whoever the administrator/ moderator who can help in this.

  3. #43
    Senior Member Leong23's Avatar
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    Default Re: conflict?

    Quote Originally Posted by wowowoof View Post
    To Mr Leong23:

    Do follow the thread before you suggest any idea of a hidden agenda. If you are not in the loop, please read up beofre putting in your say. As Mr Vonlichenstein already mentioned, it was meant to be a rhetorical question. At least someone understands.
    Hahhaha. why so serious and i always read up the whole thread.

    There are so many history of similar cases. Do read up all the history before posting up lah.

    Please read up all the history first before replying me ok.

  4. #44
    wowowoof
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    Default Re: conflict?

    sure..

    one way, maybe we can meet up for a drink and talk about the history all night long

  5. #45
    Senior Member Leong23's Avatar
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    Default Re: conflict?

    Quote Originally Posted by wowowoof View Post
    sure..

    one way, maybe we can meet up for a drink and talk about the history all night long
    SURE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  6. #46
    Moderator ortega's Avatar
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    Default Re: conflict?

    Quote Originally Posted by wowowoof View Post
    I have a suggestion, why not let the administrator/ moderator who found the contradiction and that it convened with rules and regulations as set out by CS clear the doubt for all, once and for all?

    Many thanks in advance to whoever the administrator/ moderator who can help in this.
    why not get the "kicked out" person to contact the admin
    and let them settle it, instead of you asking for us to show proof of this and that?
    if they want to come back in, then contact the admin and settle the issue ...
    if they don't want to do that then maybe they are not interested to come back to CS
    and all this talk is of no value.

  7. #47
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    Default Re: conflict?

    Quote Originally Posted by wowowoof View Post
    I have a suggestion, why not let the administrator/ moderator who found the contradiction and that it convened with rules and regulations as set out by CS clear the doubt for all, once and for all?

    Many thanks in advance to whoever the administrator/ moderator who can help in this.
    hmm, i wonder what is your motive... i guess every member can just read from all your 10+ post that you are trying to sow discord in here.

    from asking a 'hypothetical' question, to question the rights, to now enforcing your rights to clear the truth that either...

    1) you are not directly involved, as stated in your 1st post.
    2) you could be directly involved as stated in your following posts that you are really someone in the scenario.

    if you want people to come clean, you probably should come clean 1st... who are you?
    Logging Off. "You have 2,631 messages stored, of a total 400 allowed." don't PM me.

  8. #48

    Default Re: conflict?

    To be honest, TS, i don't see your question as being rhetorical anymore. It appeared so at the start, but you're starting to sound like you have a stake in the matter.

    Just explain who you are and what you're looking to achieve, and i'm sure, if its a legitimate benign request the mods/admin will oblige.
    It is such a quiet thing to fall,
    But far more terrible is to admit it

  9. #49

    Default Re: conflict?

    Quote Originally Posted by wowowoof View Post
    To Mr Drakon09:

    Quote: Entrap the admins and moderators (pretending to be a victim, asking for clarification on a hypothetical scenerio)
    Does this mean that you are implying that I am a 'victim', asking for clarification on a hypothetical scenerio, when in fact such a case did happen? So, you are saying that I fabricated the email which was my very first post on this thread?

    Consider my post a rhetorical one, Mr Wowowoof.

  10. #50
    vince123123
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    Default Re: conflict?

    If you want to make these allegations, please substantiate with more information and elaborate with supporting documents.

    Please provide information on which two organisers you are talking about, what exactly they did, what forums they set up, and what acts BOTH did to pull forumers over to their forums.

    Right now, your allegations are so vague that no one really knows what you are talking about. You are discussing in vacuo. Look at my post above and tell me if BOTH organisers did the EXACT same thing and only one got censured with the other getting away.


    Quote Originally Posted by wowowoof View Post
    To Mr catchlights:

    You may consider it as a tip off. You may consider it as a question for the moderators and administrators. It is up to the reader to intrepret the sentences. All I am asking is, why is there a discrepency in treatment between two shoot /course organisers, both obviously set up their own forum. One was deregistered, another not deregistered.

    To Mr Drakon09:

    Quote: Entrap the admins and moderators (pretending to be a victim, asking for clarification on a hypothetical scenerio)
    Does this mean that you are implying that I am a 'victim', asking for clarification on a hypothetical scenerio, when in fact such a case did happen? So, you are saying that I fabricated the email which was my very first post on this thread?

    I have been waiting for answers , but no one from admin or moderators were forthcoming in their response, except the replies from Mr Drakin09 and Mr Darren, who had provided me some insight on your rules and regulations. I can only conclude after this episode that you are willing to close an eye to the existence of the alternative forum for one and take action on the other even though both are introducing students to their alternative forums. Proofme wrong otherwise.

    I would like make a suggestion. Make it a fair competition. Either kick all out, or reinstate all in, let them have a say with their courses,. As for their forum, let them run theirs. I am sure that CS is already a market leader for photographers here in Singapore and have no such fear of losing its subscribers or followers. To me, the more the merrier. Photography is for photographers. I am sure that besides CS, there are already other available forums, yet , ppl still turn to CS for all sorts of information and advises. Look far, not within the next metre or two only.

  11. #51
    vince123123
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    Default Re: conflict?

    10+ posts, most/all in this thread, new registrant. Need I say more?

    Quote Originally Posted by Leong23 View Post
    So funny..... by comparing this two post.

    Look like there are some hidden agenda.
    Quote Originally Posted by Del_CtrlnoAlt View Post
    hmm, i wonder what is your motive... i guess every member can just read from all your 10+ post that you are trying to sow discord in here.

  12. #52
    wowowoof
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    Default Re: conflict?

    Overnight, I have received countless replies, both moderators and senior members and members of CS have been replying. I like this form of discussion, open, direct and full of honesty.

    To people who questioned my motive. Do I /Do I not have an ulterior motive for starting my thread? Am I sowing discord? It is actually up to the individual readers to derive their feeling and emotions from my writing. Honestly, from my point of view, I have no intention to sour feelings nor to antagonize people. Why should I, unless I really have nothing to do.

    Am I the shoot organizer who was booted out? Honestly again, the answer is NO. Who am I then? Well, I am just person who find fun doing something I like since film days. I am not an expert photographer, instructor or whoever you might imagine me to be. But I once attended a course by Knowledge bowl. I also once attended a course by Stanley Lim Colour Centre (Please do not erase the names, no publicity, but for sake of openness). For Knowledge Bowl, I attended one of their course in September last year, while Stanley Lim Colour Centre, one of which I attended this year.

    Probably you will ask, why start this thread? Perhaps, for me, I want to see justice and democracy and transparency . Knowledge Bowl sent out emails to students who sign up for their course, as attested to the evidence to my very first thread. Similarly, Stanley Lim set up its own forum to attract interested photographers to photography. Both were done with good intentions. Herein where my question now arise, why one was evicted and another not?

    According to the rules as set by club snap and enlightened to me by moderators, administrator and senior members, as long as you try to ‘pull’ members from CS to your forum, you will get evicted. Otherwise having your own forum is ok. Please correct me if I am wrong on this matter. So, Stanley Lim CC was evicted due to it setting up its forum. Did it or did it not try to ‘pull’ photographers? This I cannot comment because as mentioned, I only got to know about this matter from members of the community rather recently. Did Knowledge Bowl then actively try to attract its students, I can say so, because of the number of emails which were send to me about the activities it is organizing in its forum. I have deleted quite a few, but I have also quite a few which I did not delete.

    So, in my search for the truth and to seek transparency, I wrote in to ask the following:
    1) Can I be a course organizer/ shoot organizer and set up my own forum?
    2) If permissible and the organizers are not ‘pulling’ members away, why were they evicted? Any evidence to deem they were or just because they had set up a booth and CS happened to set up another booth at same exhibition and caught them? Similarly, another organizer was not booted out despite setting its forum? Or is it just plain luck that they were not at the same exhibition?

    I have yet to receive answers which can satisfy my questions.

    To Mr Ortega
    You are a gentleman. You believe in round table talks to resolve conflicts. If I was the shoot organizer and was booted out, would I not have wanted to seek a redress? Definitely. But it takes 2 hands to clap. If one hand is willing and the other hand refuses, is there a way to resolve conflict?

    To Mr Del_CtrlnoDel
    You seem more willing to put people down, irrespective of their feelings. What makes you think, or can you give me any of my statements which show that I am trying to sow discord here? To answer your questions, I am not directly involve with both parties. I only just want answers, so that any lingering resentment that has been existing for the aggrieved party be put to rest.

    To Mr Vonlichenstein
    It is a genuine benign request, but are the administrators / moderators willing to shed light on the incident?

    To Mr Vince123123
    Your use of wording and the way you put your questions put you as a very good English teacher or a lawyer. I only have evidence from knowledge bowl. From the other party, sad to say, I am not that involved to have any evidence. My only involvement with them is through the course that I have attended. Otherwise I would have posted the evidence for all to see.

    People have pride. If they were evicted and it would be a year ago, they probably would have been trying to find a way to get back in. If no one is entertaining them, how to? You expect them to know tow, beg to come in? Would they have waited till now , to start a thread, to come in this way? No human in the right frame of mind would wait till now, suffer for loss of income and write now. They would have started earlier than me. So, no, no.. I am not the interested party.

    I have said what I needed to say. You can find further fault or we can put the ball into the administrator’s court and wait for them to have their say. Show the evidence for all to see, and then make decisions on how the matter can be resolved. Evict both, reinstate all… it is your forum, but at the end of the day, only the activity that we all like will lose out.

    Anyway, if anymore people still doubt who I am, well, I am open to meeting you guys up. You state the place and time and if possible, I will meet you. Best be crowded, in case I am in danger. But I would like to minute down the meeting and have the process posted for the sake of transparency. What do you think?

  13. #53

    Default Re: conflict?

    aren't you being a little dramatic and slightly slanderous(or is it libel, since its not verbal)? i'm sure the CS mods and admins aren't going to order a hit on you just because you're asking questions about their actions.

    i wish you luck with finding answers to your questions, but do note that your posts are getting a little dicey.
    It is such a quiet thing to fall,
    But far more terrible is to admit it

  14. #54
    Senior Member Leong23's Avatar
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    Default Re: conflict?

    Quote Originally Posted by vonlichenstein View Post
    aren't you being a little dramatic and slightly slanderous(or is it libel, since its not verbal)? i'm sure the CS mods and admins aren't going to order a hit on you just because you're asking questions about their actions.

    i wish you luck with finding answers to your questions, but do note that your posts are getting a little dicey.
    It is so common that action drama screening in Kopitam.


  15. #55

    Default Re: conflict?

    Quote Originally Posted by wowowoof View Post
    ... we can put the ball into the administrator’s court and wait for them to have their say. Show the evidence for all to see, and then make decisions on how the matter can be resolved. Evict both, reinstate all…
    Please define who is "for all to see" .... Does everyone in this forum really care about this matter .... I think it is quite some time pass already and everyone has moved on ....

    In your first post, you have mentioned that you have been mulling over it for a while and maybe you could have been influenced by one side more than the other .... Should I presume that your experience with one course organiser was better than the other ....

    I don't really understand your change of view ... from your opening post (#1) where you were concerned about your own status in CS by joining another forum to post #17 ... where you had "assumed - IF" the role of another course organiser and asked some relevant questions ... to your current last stance as the person insearch of truth and transparency .... for an incident over a year ago .... which in your own word your are no part of or in any way involved.

    Maybe it is a well structured ... tatical approach to what you are really asking for (Evict both or reinstate all… ) I have have to salute you for that well planned line of questioning ...

    But i think the Mods have the right to do what they have done without having to answer to another third/uninvolved party .... Your question in Post #17 about you becoming a course organiser and setting up your own forum has been duly answer ..... AFAIK

    And in order to find out what really happen ... I guess you can set up your own forum and try to re-enact history ... and you will become the involed party and get first hand information ....

    Good Luck ....

  16. #56
    wowowoof
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    Default Re: conflict?

    Vonlichenstein and Thai Long Bean
    Thank you for your best wishes

    Leong23:
    Good one!! Wish I was a stage writer. I Could make it more dramatic

    Just 2 days ago, quite a lot of moderators came in and were rather vociferous in questioning the validity of my claims. Some went as much as to challenge me to reveal myself. Now that I have done that, and by replying to your requests, suddenly quite on all fronts. Quite a shame actually. Maybe I am right, maybe I am wrong, but I could only draw some conclusion on this matter based on this silence:
    1) The moderators do not know what is happening, probably being that they were just appointed recently (could be after the event occurred), so, better not to comment.
    2) What was claimed is a fact, that the case did indeed happen and there is no way to seek redress from the aggrieved party.
    3) The real person who is behind the eviction is non of the moderators (from statement 1) , but probably one of the administrators or even higher up and he/she actually realized that there is now a conflict to the decision and refuses to come make clear

    All abovementioned is really hypothetical actually, unless further evidence can be further provided by anyone who knows about the incident. Sigh.

  17. #57
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    Default Re: conflict?

    Quote Originally Posted by wowowoof View Post
    Vonlichenstein and Thai Long Bean
    Thank you for your best wishes

    Leong23:
    Good one!! Wish I was a stage writer. I Could make it more dramatic

    Just 2 days ago, quite a lot of moderators came in and were rather vociferous in questioning the validity of my claims. Some went as much as to challenge me to reveal myself. Now that I have done that, and by replying to your requests, suddenly quite on all fronts. Quite a shame actually. Maybe I am right, maybe I am wrong, but I could only draw some conclusion on this matter based on this silence:
    1) The moderators do not know what is happening, probably being that they were just appointed recently (could be after the event occurred), so, better not to comment.
    2) What was claimed is a fact, that the case did indeed happen and there is no way to seek redress from the aggrieved party.
    3) The real person who is behind the eviction is non of the moderators (from statement 1) , but probably one of the administrators or even higher up and he/she actually realized that there is now a conflict to the decision and refuses to come make clear

    All abovementioned is really hypothetical actually, unless further evidence can be further provided by anyone who knows about the incident. Sigh.
    still trying to sow discord...

    actually, i'm still waiting for u to tell me who are you... you have yet to do that thou... you can pm me to verify.

    i don't have to prove much, the more you say, the more the members here will know where you come from. the above few have summarized what i probably wanted to reply.

    u reg a new nick, come here to be CSI? great work...
    Logging Off. "You have 2,631 messages stored, of a total 400 allowed." don't PM me.

  18. #58
    wowowoof
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    Default Re: conflict?

    Mr moderator,

    To prove my sincerity , I have already suggested that we meet up. What is the point of PMing, there is always a possibility that I can hide under another nick. If I want to sow discord, I would not have suggested a meeting.

    You were quiet, now u talk, but you did not mention if you want to meet to talk.

    So how? Then, once and for all, you will know if I am really who you think I am. Or is it because you are afraid that the meeting will be minuted , and you find it uncomfortable?

  19. #59

    Default Re: conflict?

    Quote Originally Posted by wowowoof View Post
    Mr moderator,

    To prove my sincerity , I have already suggested that we meet up. What is the point of PMing, there is always a possibility that I can hide under another nick. If I want to sow discord, I would not have suggested a meeting.

    You were quiet, now u talk, but you did not mention if you want to meet to talk.

    So how? Then, once and for all, you will know if I am really who you think I am. Or is it because you are afraid that the meeting will be minuted , and you find it uncomfortable?
    I would find having a meeting like that being recorded uncomfortable, whether i was guilty or not. the kind of legal implications it may have are rather... onerous, especially (and i'm not refering to woworuff or the mod here) IF an involved party has any ill intent.

    I don't get whats the big deal about this whole thing anyway, since you claim not to be directly involved. And it has happened a significant while ago, from what i gather.
    It is such a quiet thing to fall,
    But far more terrible is to admit it

  20. #60

    Default Re: conflict?

    Quote Originally Posted by wowowoof View Post
    All abovementioned is really hypothetical actually, unless further evidence can be further provided by anyone who knows about the incident. Sigh.
    So if nobody who is actually involved in this incident (neither MODs or the aggrieved party) is willing to or coming forward to shed any light on this matter ... What are you going to do next?

    My nagging question remains .... What or how does this matter concerns you?

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