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Thread: WE WON!!!!! Feng Tian Wei is our heroine!!!!

  1. #121
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    Default Re: WE WON!!!!! Feng Tian Wei is our heroine!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by nightwolf75 View Post
    ...well, despite this lengthy post, i doubt i can sway any xenophobes out there. feel free to pound your collective chests and curse me for being a pro-govt stooge. right now, i rather go and watch OUR TEAM beat the crap out of china.
    Wow, lengthy post there. Quite a good read though.

    "We're" being owned now in the finals... Whoops?
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  2. #122
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    Default Re: WE WON!!!!! Feng Tian Wei is our heroine!!!!

    Silver medal then
    Zhang yining is incredible no wonder she`s no1

  3. #123
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    Default Re: WE WON!!!!! Feng Tian Wei is our heroine!!!!

    she is real good

  4. #124
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    Default Re: WE WON!!!!! Feng Tian Wei is our heroine!!!!

    congrats to OUR TEAM! no shame in the silver as our team made the chinese worked for it.

    well done!
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  5. #125
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    Default Re: WE WON!!!!! Feng Tian Wei is our heroine!!!!

    Well, at least we still see our flag in the Olympic stage. ^^

    Hopes for a national holiday...

  6. #126
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    Default Re: WE WON!!!!! Feng Tian Wei is our heroine!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by ~Arcanic~ View Post
    Well, at least we still see our flag in the Olympic stage. ^^

    Hopes for a national holiday...
    TGG... tho i dun mind... give us both one more dat to catch up with our marking!

    how you doing?
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  7. #127
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    Default Re: WE WON!!!!! Feng Tian Wei is our heroine!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by nightwolf75 View Post
    TGG... tho i dun mind... give us both one more dat to catch up with our marking!

    how you doing?
    high five on that man...

    marking essays are killing me... lucky its CA week...

  8. #128
    Senior Member velasco's Avatar
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    Default Re: WE WON!!!!! Feng Tian Wei is our heroine!!!!



    but nvm silver!

  9. #129
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    Default Re: WE WON!!!!! Feng Tian Wei is our heroine!!!!

    ahah silver is pretty good too! haha can see no pressure on singapore team to deliver, the very last time out they were giggling and laughing. haha!

  10. #130
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    Default Re: WE WON!!!!! Feng Tian Wei is our heroine!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy81 View Post
    Silver medal then
    Zhang yining is incredible no wonder she`s no1
    And she nearly come to spore when she was younger!

    Just too bad China din let her go but then if she were to come here she might /might not be No.1!

    Anyway Congrates Singapore!

  11. #131
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    Default Re: WE WON!!!!! Feng Tian Wei is our heroine!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by melvin View Post
    And she nearly come to spore when she was younger!

    Just too bad China din let her go but then if she were to come here she might /might not be No.1!

    Anyway Congrates Singapore!
    should put it in another way... if she had came...

    maybe we would have been number 1. ^^

  12. #132
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    Default Re: WE WON!!!!! Feng Tian Wei is our heroine!!!!

    Another way to look at it is the FT who leave are usually the 2nd tier FTs. By going to another country, they become 1st tier in that country. By staying in their own country, they remain 2nd tier.

    As a 1st tier in a foreign country, they will get to represent the country in games. As a 2nd tier in their home country, they will always be second choice when it comes to representing the home country.

    Guess which one would rather be?

    Quote Originally Posted by idor View Post
    C'mon lah... these FT have commendable spirit. Left their home to go to a place where they know they will always be viewed as second class citizens by some people. But yet they left home for various reasons. Just face it, our local boys just do not have the right environment to excel in sports. Most parents prefer their kids to go to a top school vs. sports school. They want their kids to excel in sports, but yet they push their kids to excel in studies. Over here in US, when kids play sports in local competitions, no matter how minor the competitions are, parents and family members make up for majority of the spectators. in sg, its always empty stands. Even in school sports day, if the school never enforce that students attend, i bet with you the stadiums will be empty. Few parents will even bother to attend. Bottom line, it ain't easy being a FT, so just give them a break lah...

  13. #133
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    Default Re: WE WON!!!!! Feng Tian Wei is our heroine!!!!

    Three thumbs up for the statement in bold.

    I rather not even win than to win by using someone else's resources.

    Quote Originally Posted by mattlock View Post
    I rather a locally nutured talent manage to only go to the quarter finals, while breaking the national record, rather than someone who's brought in and wins gold

    Look at the Singapore national football team.
    Do you remember the days of Fandi Ahmad, Malek Awab and co.?
    Do you remember how exhilarating it was watching them play against different Malaysian states?
    I'm sure the team today can perform on that level or better since we have so many people imported in to play for us.
    But surely I'm not the only person who feels that our locally bred team inspired more connection than a team made up of FTs.

    This is a very middle eastern approach towards everything, a clear example is Dubai.
    Want to develop fast? Just buy everything. Buy expensive architects, buy a Lourve, buy culture.

    It's such an Asian mentality, everything is about winning.Win at any cost, even if it means buying talents specially to compete with us.
    Sure other countries have chinese in their team. But look at the circumstances. How many of the foreigners in other teams went to that country specifically because they were scouted and paid to play that sport? Or did they immigrate to that country for other reasons, lived there, built up bonds, and also played sports.

    Let me state that I am fine with foreigners moving here, we are an immigrant society afterall.
    But the upper-level approach towards the welcoming of foreign talent is so driven by blatant ulterior motives.

  14. #134

    Default Re: WE WON!!!!! Feng Tian Wei is our heroine!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by nightwolf75 View Post
    jing, you spent your time in USA (and of all places, NY) to further your photographic career. you should have been able to observe up close the Americans are no better. if you are no good, you will be left for roadkill.

    in case you don't know, the USA is what it is today becos of its liberal (well, at least pre-9/11) immigration policies. even post-9/11 with all its strict restrictions (which, btw, is causing a lot of problems in their hi-tech industries... one might be surprised how much USA depends on engineers who come from other lands and graduating from US unis... cos US kids themselves shun such careers or just don't make the cut.), people still want to fight tooth-and-nail to get that green card.

    USA, too, wants the best people becos of wat they can bring to their country. the only difference bet SG and US is, perhaps, the way we treat failures and risk-taking. do not confuse this with what you deemed as 'cynical' attitude of SG towards a winner-takes-all mentality. every country in the world is fighting for talent, and if i might say so, SG is worrying becos we are not the first choice. insular societies, history has proven, don't survive. China was once a great nation, until it comes a point in their history (Ming dynasty, IIRC) that they closed their society off from foreign influx. their long decline (considering that they were the first to invent paper, printing, compass, gunpowder etc...) led to considerable national shame that till today, Chinese scholars are still berating the fact.

    if you want to know why China considered the olympics as such a big thing, you better understand their national shame.

    frankly, i rather learn from history and pray SG dun go down this route.

    btw, don't you think both singapore (where you are born) and US (where you work) are better off both because you are a singaporean FT in US?



    actually, wat you said is contradictory. so you rather have a bunch of loser-locals, than a bunch of can-win 'foreigners' who are willing to fight for SG on the olympic arena?

    this xenophobic attitude is, IMO, what is worrying at least for me. i heard more than enuf coffee shop talk abt how foreigners are taking away our jobs, our pay, or wives/husbands etc... so what is Tao Li or the Ping Pong team are not born locals? they carry the pink i/c. that makes them Singaporeans - one of us. period. our forebears were once like them.

    btw, when Tang Howe Liang won the silver at the 1960 Rome Olympics, technically speaking, he won it as a Malaysian (btw, he's also a China-born citizen from Swatow) becos Singapore was part of the Malayan Federation. so it is actually a Malaysian medal and not Singaporean. this time round, it is really our medal.

    if we have to depend on FTs to win, so be it. local born and bred people like us should suck it up and wake up. sorry if this sounds crude, but life sucks. granted not all FTs are talent, we have seen this in some of the failed experiments in soccer and athletics. however, think. i rather have this people around and make us all better off, whichever areas they may be, than to have them working for other nations of whom not all are friendly to singapore. i'm a firm believer of the “Nations have no permanent friends or allies, they only have permanent interests.” doctrine.

    does this make me a govt-stooge in your head? sad to say, i am abt as an anarchist as one can get working in a civil service. in fact, becos i work in the civil service that i can see better the warts of the government. they don't always get things right. but, this is one area i rather think they did.

    you should read Richard Florida's "Who's your city?" and "The Rise of the Creative Class" - 2 seminal books which have greatly influenced many nation's leaders (including ours) on this hunt for talent everywhere.

    right now in my staff room, i am glad we have a sprinkling of "FT" teachers teaching our singaporean students. i am glad we have foreign students in my school. we have china-born teachers (many of them PRs) teaching our kids mandarin. one of my school kids (a local, not your 'FT') just came back from beijing, after representing SG in an international chinese translation contest. guess what? she came in overall-3rd, and team champion, beating even teams from China, HK and Taiwan. she is now going on a half-year, fully paid scholarship to study in china. i seriously doubt we can even achieve this without your so-called 'FTs'. our dept recently have a ROMANIAN born, but SG-PR now, teacher. the students just love her because she brought an added dimension to classroom teaching. who would you rather have - a SG who reads abt Romania and teach, or a real-life Romanian teaching Romania?

    well, despite this lengthy post, i doubt i can sway any xenophobes out there. feel free to pound your collective chests and curse me for being a pro-govt stooge. right now, i rather go and watch OUR TEAM beat the crap out of china.
    well said bro.. anyway.. kudos to the table tennis team..

  15. #135
    vince123123
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    Default Re: WE WON!!!!! Feng Tian Wei is our heroine!!!!

    Hehehehe!!!! :P :P

    Quote Originally Posted by kiwi2 View Post
    I'm not for racial discrimination but it's weird seeing all the mainland Chinese names and faces in the papers and pretend to tell myself "HURRAY, WE DID IT!" It's always been to me like China vs China.

  16. #136

    Default Re: WE WON!!!!! Feng Tian Wei is our heroine!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    Three thumbs up for the statement in bold.

    I rather not even win than to win by using someone else's resources.
    Thank heavens our sailing and bowling teams share that mentality! I look forward to the day a Singaporean comes in to take a Olympic Medal. That is TRUE victory

  17. #137
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    Default Re: WE WON!!!!! Feng Tian Wei is our heroine!!!!

    who's holding SG flag during opening ceremony?

  18. #138

    Default Re: WE WON!!!!! Feng Tian Wei is our heroine!!!!

    "the only difference bet SG and US is, perhaps, the way we treat failures and risk-taking."

    no, that is not the only difference. the BIGGEST difference is that America is an ideal, it has a dream, it has intangible belief in things beyond dollars and cents. You think people "fight tooth and nail" to get a green card because of $$$ alone? It's because of their soft power in a big part. Coca Cola! Hollywood! The pursuit of Happiness! That sort of thing.

    America believes (stupidly or not) in the right of every person to create something for himself. It has belief in the strength of the individual, in democracy and freedom.
    People form bonds to countries due to what the country represents to them. It goes beyond dollars and cents.

    The US government doesn't look at foreigners with dollars and cents in their eyes only.
    They let in people for the strangest reasons, like allowing political asylum to people who are castigated overseas.
    The people who immigrate to America work hard because they know no one owes them a living. The government doesn't take care of them.

    "if we have to depend on FTs to win, so be it. local born and bred people like us should suck it up and wake up. sorry if this sounds crude, but life sucks."

    This is exactly the sort of mentality I hate.

    I rather NOT win than to depend on someone else to win. Go play a computer game, why do you think people who use cheat codes to win don't get the same sort of respect that people who played the game properly get?

    Sports is NOT an essential part of survival like economics. We should NOT have this vicious "win at all costs" mentality, it will have reprecussions in the future.

    -----------------

    Before I go further, let's separate Sports and Economics.
    Economics is not equal to a sense of national identity (in this case, the sense of being Singaporean). There are a lot of displaced Haitians who had to leave Haiti due to the absolute mess the country is in. But they retain their national identity strongly. Economics is not equal to a sense of national identity.

    "actually, wat you said is contradictory. so you rather have a bunch of loser-locals, than a bunch of can-win 'foreigners' who are willing to fight for SG on the olympic arena?"


    I've always felt that sports is about being able to beat your own limits. Maybe you view sports as an either you're a winner or a loser sort of thing, but I feel that if a bunch of locals who have no hope of reaching a finals go there and play their heart out, they deserve our respect and love.
    If Michael Phelps dons Singapore colours just for this Olympics and wins us 5 gold medals, I will respect him but in a different way.

    Sports on an international stage is not like economics. When people compete for their nation it's a non-violent form of War. What comes into play here is nationhood and loyalty. So let's stop comparing our national survival with a game.

    Let me say that I have no qualms about foreigners coming into Singapore, I'm pro-immigration. I've seen the great things that immigration can bring about. Let's not go into the argument about how singapore will not survive without immigration. Economics and Sports are two fields that work differently.

    "they carry the pink i/c. that makes them Singaporeans - one of us. period. our forebears were once like them. "

    Being SINGAPOREAN goes beyond having a red passport or a pink I/C. those things are just pieces of paper and plastic.
    All the money in the world won't buy these intangible bonds of a sense of ownership to one's country.
    There comes a point where an immigrant feels a certain bond to the country they immigrated to.I am blessed to have numerous friends who have moved here from other countries and that have developed a sense of kinship with our nation. What I am saying is that this bond-building takes time and experience, it's not just an IC and passport.

    Li Jia Wei has done our country proud for many years now and I am proud of her. Feng Tian Wei has done a good job but she's only been in Singapore for a year and a half. I don't care if she has a red passport, it doesn't take a genius to raise an eyebrow when someone who comes in 2007 March gets a Singaporean passport in 2008 January. If she stays on and continues on in Singapore over the years, I will be very happy to have another talented Singaporean in our midst.

    You can't buy a sense of national loyalty.

    Let me say that this easy citizenship issue works both ways. If our paddlers didn't perform well,even after we've put in millions of taxpayer dollars, we'll be hounding for their blood and asking why we should be spending money on them. Look at how it's like in our local football scene. but our paddlers performed well so suddenly they're our NATIONAL HEROES!!!! Sorry I find this very hypocritical (of us).

    I believe that if we are going to have an open IMMIGRANT policy, the IMMIGRANTS who are going to form the next wave of Singaporeans should be given a sense of more acceptance in this society. I'm talking about all types of immigrants, from our maids to the cleaners and service staff, not just the highly paid expats and the elite atheletes.
    At this point, most of the foreigners who come here have little to no rights in this country. This is esp evident in the construction industry.

    -------------

    Let's talk about the reprecussions of not believing in our own ability to create our own talents rather than importing it in. This will lead to people constantly believing that we will always have to rely on people from other countries to garner achievements in certain fields.
    Many Singaporeans don't believe that born and bred Singaporeans can achieve anything in the international world, esp in areas of sports, innovation, culture. Do you agree with this?

    I feel this especially strongly since I'm in the field of the arts and my work revolving around Singaporeans was appreciated by Westerners first before being taken notice of by Singaporeans.

    Also, if you want to talk about insular societies, look at Japan. Japan, being so insular that their foreign population is tiny, has an amazing amount of innovation in their history. Even Americans love manga, we follow japanese culture, they excel in certain fields of sports (sure they aren't really 1st place sort of people but they perform very respectably in many sports), and they've developed their own way of dealing with the world.
    China itself is still very insular, and I can predict that that insularity is going to continue. And knowing them they can make it happen.

    "btw, don't you think both singapore (where you are born) and US (where you work) are better off both because you are a singaporean FT in US?"


    A lot of Singaporeans who work overseas end up staying overseas because (this is from my own personal view so it probably is a generalization) we tend to get more respect and appreciation when we're overseas compared to being in Singapore where the only way to get respect is to make a big paycheck. $$$ seems to be a gauge of a person's worth in Singapore.

    I'm back in Singapore because I feel strongly enough about Singapore to want to do my part for it.

    --------------------

    On another note, our team did an awesome job. Li Jiawei was really something! Kudos to them.

    and on a final note, I don't see this as an issue of pro-government or not.
    This is an issue of being Singaporean that goes beyond and above the government and our feelings towards the government.
    Last edited by mattlock; 17th August 2008 at 11:11 PM.

  19. #139

    Default Re: WE WON!!!!! Feng Tian Wei is our heroine!!!!

    i totally disagree . As a Singaporean , I am proud to see my country winning a medal . And they players , they did work hard to get this far . So whether they r a true blue Singaporean or a foreign import , I am proud of them because they did really well in the games .

  20. #140

    Default Re: WE WON!!!!! Feng Tian Wei is our heroine!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by nightwolf75 View Post
    if we have to depend on FTs to win, so be it. local born and bred people like us should suck it up and wake up.
    I just overheard a ten-year old mutter this after the finals defeat:

    "We lost ah? Just buy over the team that won lor"

    Much as your eloquent post had very strongly argued for the benefits of having FTs, you've also berated for the severe need of attention on building on local talents. The quote I chosen strongly reeks of the danger of over-dependence on FTs if there isn't a balancing counter-check on the emphasis on locals.

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