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Thread: WE WON!!!!! Feng Tian Wei is our heroine!!!!

  1. #101

    Default Re: WE WON!!!!! Feng Tian Wei is our heroine!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by ortega View Post
    ok i can now see where you are coming from

    if you cannot defeat your enemy, it is better to have them on your side

    just remember to keep this discussion free from racist remarks.
    and always look at both sides of the coin before making judgement and mindless statements
    I beg to differ. I am not making racist nor MINDLESS statements. In fact I would say that those who do not feel anything about this false victory are the ones who are really thinking about the problem that we are facing with this heavy dependence on FTs. I believe even professionals in the sporting world are split on the FT scheme. And I am looking from both sides and I choose to believe in what I and some others feel is a very flawed scheme.

  2. #102
    Senior Member afbug's Avatar
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    Default Re: WE WON!!!!! Feng Tian Wei is our heroine!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by aeskywan View Post
    Hmmm that is one version of the big picture. The big picture I see is locals get edged out as our govt import more FTs as the FT scheme has proven to be a success. Hence we win more medals with more FTs and yes our youth are more inspired to "cheer" for our FT teams.
    1st, u must ask urself, why the govt wanna spend money and effort to get foreign imports? If got local talent, why not let them progress?

    Very easy answer. No choice thats why. No or not much talent pool to choose from and if have, not very good as well. The root of the prob is the encouragement children have. SG children are encouraged to forcus more on studies, even june hols are studies and more studies.

    SG tried hard already with football. Formed the professional S league and tried to get more local players but in the end, still have to invite foreign clubs and players in.

    Its no diff from business really. Like professionals in business, these sportsmen and women are pofessionals. Its just another job. And just like any other jobs, there are foreign import talents and local talents. SG must hold on to them to progress. Its just that SG dun have a top local female table tennis player this time round.

    If Li and co din win a medal, I think wun have this discussion. It will be a discussion on wasting money on sports and its foreign imports.

    For me, at least there is some success in the Olympics. Can't ask for more. SG dun have a flying fish like M. Phelps. He alone won more gold than many countries.

  3. #103
    Moderator ortega's Avatar
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    Default Re: WE WON!!!!! Feng Tian Wei is our heroine!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by aeskywan View Post
    I beg to differ. I am not making racist nor MINDLESS statements. In fact I would say that those who do not feel anything about this false victory are the ones who are really thinking about the problem that we are facing with this heavy dependence on FTs. I believe even professionals in the sporting world are split on the FT scheme. And I am looking from both sides and I choose to believe in what I and some others feel is a very flawed scheme.
    it is just a reminder to everyone

    you are entitled to your own views, just don't force it on everyone
    if i was threatened by someone better than me, i would put in effort to be better than him/her
    instead of just whining about how unfair it is

    fact:
    this world is unfair
    no one owes you a living, you got to earn it

  4. #104
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    Default Re: WE WON!!!!! Feng Tian Wei is our heroine!!!!

    ot a bit.

    money talks!

  5. #105

    Default Re: WE WON!!!!! Feng Tian Wei is our heroine!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by afbug View Post
    1st, u must ask urself, why the govt wanna spend money and effort to get foreign imports? If got local talent, why not let them progress?

    Very easy answer. No choice thats why. No or not much talent pool to choose from and if have, not very good as well. The root of the prob is the encouragement children have. SG children are encouraged to forcus more on studies, even june hols are studies and more studies.

    SG tried hard already with football. Formed the professional S league and tried to get more local players but in the end, still have to invite foreign clubs and players in.

    Its no diff from business really. Like professionals in business, these sportsmen and women are pofessionals. Its just another job. And just like any other jobs, there are foreign import talents and local talents. SG must hold on to them to progress. Its just that SG dun have a top local female table tennis player this time round.

    If Li and co din win a medal, I think wun have this discussion. It will be a discussion on wasting money on sports and its foreign imports.

    For me, at least there is some success in the Olympics. Can't ask for more. SG dun have a flying fish like M. Phelps. He alone won more gold than many countries.
    It is because Singapore needs to be first in everything no matter what method used. Yes said before, in the business world, I would have no qualms with that but in this case. Sports is not a job. It is matter of National Pride and it is no pride that we feel that we don't want to nuture our own talents but want to take the easy way out in employing people to win it for us. An good example of real sports man ship would be the Jamaican bobsled team that took part in a winter Olympics despite having no snow in their country. They didn't win but that is what I call real inspiration and real sportsman ship.

    Well I think no point arguing. Let's just wait and see if there will be really more local sports man and women or will we start fielding more FTs in our sports events. Then we will know whose argument is right. And seriously I really do hope that I am wrong for if I am right, the state of sports in Singapore is going to be really really going into a dark age.

  6. #106
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    Default Re: WE WON!!!!! Feng Tian Wei is our heroine!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by aeskywan View Post
    What big picture? That our sportsmen are increasingly becoming FTs that our scouts recruit from overseas? That we will win more medals in years to come through sending whole entire teams of FTs?
    C'mon lah... these FT have commendable spirit. Left their home to go to a place where they know they will always be viewed as second class citizens by some people. But yet they left home for various reasons. Just face it, our local boys just do not have the right environment to excel in sports. Most parents prefer their kids to go to a top school vs. sports school. They want their kids to excel in sports, but yet they push their kids to excel in studies. Over here in US, when kids play sports in local competitions, no matter how minor the competitions are, parents and family members make up for majority of the spectators. in sg, its always empty stands. Even in school sports day, if the school never enforce that students attend, i bet with you the stadiums will be empty. Few parents will even bother to attend. Bottom line, it ain't easy being a FT, so just give them a break lah...

  7. #107

    Default Re: WE WON!!!!! Feng Tian Wei is our heroine!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by aeskywan View Post
    An good example of real sports man ship would be the Jamaican bobsled team that took part in a winter Olympics despite having no snow in their country. They didn't win but that is what I call real inspiration and real sportsman ship.
    errr.... that is what I call WASTING taxpayers money. Seriously. errr.... I see it as nothing more than a state sponsored winter holiday.....

    u call that REAL INSPIRATION?????

    Frankly, my personal view of the local athletes who go to olympics and SCREW UP EVERYTME?? dun waste our MONEY.

    I think people like Ji Jiawei has spent countless hours training for singapore. She came many years ago and the effort she spent on training must be unbelievable to maintain the top flight standard. For me, it is the effort and result that count. both matters. with effort no result, waste money + time. With result no effort, not much pride involved.
    Last edited by pisduck; 17th August 2008 at 07:10 AM.

  8. #108
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    Default Re: WE WON!!!!! Feng Tian Wei is our heroine!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by FilterFunk View Post
    not sure if you are still in Aust, but SBS is playing the Live telecast for the finals at 9.30pm AEST.
    ya I know.. have been looking forward to it, thanks though

    u in Melbourne too?

  9. #109

    Default Re: WE WON!!!!! Feng Tian Wei is our heroine!!!!

    Ya i think it;s better to send a team of FT's who will fight tooth and nail rather than 'locals' who just go there for a picnic. Remember how our swimmers did in the the last Olympics? They just went there and relak-one-corner n just look at the time they clocked! Dont mean to downplay their participation

    In case some of u haven't realize yet,in our society today the best wins,fair or not. If yr boss thinks u cannot make it, he will have no qualms of replacing u with a 'FT'. Who to blame? Either u shape out or ship out. Instead of complaining ,we should think ahead and think constructively on how more competition can help us strive ahead. Another analogy i like comparing S'pore with giants like India n China. If we just complain n remain cynical we will lag behind .

    Imagine the governing sports body just relak one corner n wait gleefully for a micheal phelps to be born here,we may have to wait a hundred more years, And even so he may become an engineer instead of an athlete based on S'porean's mentality.
    Ask yourself,if yr kid is talented would u want him/her to pursue a carreer as an athlete?

    Those cynics forgot what the sports is all about -the human spirit.U think anyone can just walk into the Olympics and snatch a medal just like dat?U CAN't buy a medal even Phelps have to rely on his every bit to excel.Give credit where it's due lah-what have some of u guys done but sit behind yr computer n complain?

    Like Ortega said,look at the BIG picture

  10. #110
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    Default Re: WE WON!!!!! Feng Tian Wei is our heroine!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by engta View Post
    ya I know.. have been looking forward to it, thanks though

    u in Melbourne too?
    nope. i am based in Wollongong, NSW..
    studying there.. poor student.

    melbourne is nice place to visit though.

  11. #111

    Default Re: WE WON!!!!! Feng Tian Wei is our heroine!!!!

    Haha talking about FT, just a funny point come across our mind...nothing related.

    We are just money making machine. All our houses, foods, medical care, and even our children are all looking after by FT. Basically, we just need to spend all of our life to make alot of money, in order to pay the FT to take care of every other things for us.

    That's why other than what we are good in our jobs (way of money making), the rest (art, sport, etc. leisure/hobby stuff) mostly cannot make it. Just like something cannot get off my mind....foreign Miss Singapore Universe. Get more beautiful girls to settle here to build the next beautiful generations.

    Cheers!
    Last edited by cheeseme; 17th August 2008 at 01:13 PM.

  12. #112

    Default Re: WE WON!!!!! Feng Tian Wei is our heroine!!!!

    I rather a locally nutured talent manage to only go to the quarter finals, while breaking the national record, rather than someone who's brought in and wins gold

    Look at the Singapore national football team.
    Do you remember the days of Fandi Ahmad, Malek Awab and co.?
    Do you remember how exhilarating it was watching them play against different Malaysian states?
    I'm sure the team today can perform on that level or better since we have so many people imported in to play for us.
    But surely I'm not the only person who feels that our locally bred team inspired more connection than a team made up of FTs.

    This is a very middle eastern approach towards everything, a clear example is Dubai.
    Want to develop fast? Just buy everything. Buy expensive architects, buy a Lourve, buy culture.

    It's such an Asian mentality, everything is about winning.Win at any cost, even if it means buying talents specially to compete with us.
    Sure other countries have chinese in their team. But look at the circumstances. How many of the foreigners in other teams went to that country specifically because they were scouted and paid to play that sport? Or did they immigrate to that country for other reasons, lived there, built up bonds, and also played sports.

    Let me state that I am fine with foreigners moving here, we are an immigrant society afterall.
    But the upper-level approach towards the welcoming of foreign talent is so driven by blatant ulterior motives.

  13. #113

    Default Re: WE WON!!!!! Feng Tian Wei is our heroine!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by goon View Post
    Ya i think it;s better to send a team of FT's who will fight tooth and nail rather than 'locals' who just go there for a picnic. Remember how our swimmers did in the the last Olympics? They just went there and relak-one-corner n just look at the time they clocked! Dont mean to downplay their participation

    In case some of u haven't realize yet,in our society today the best wins,fair or not. If yr boss thinks u cannot make it, he will have no qualms of replacing u with a 'FT'. Who to blame? Either u shape out or ship out. Instead of complaining ,we should think ahead and think constructively on how more competition can help us strive ahead. Another analogy i like comparing S'pore with giants like India n China. If we just complain n remain cynical we will lag behind .

    Imagine the governing sports body just relak one corner n wait gleefully for a micheal phelps to be born here,we may have to wait a hundred more years, And even so he may become an engineer instead of an athlete based on S'porean's mentality.
    Ask yourself,if yr kid is talented would u want him/her to pursue a carreer as an athlete?

    Those cynics forgot what the sports is all about -the human spirit.U think anyone can just walk into the Olympics and snatch a medal just like dat?U CAN't buy a medal even Phelps have to rely on his every bit to excel.Give credit where it's due lah-what have some of u guys done but sit behind yr computer n complain?

    Like Ortega said,look at the BIG picture

    Just because society in Singapore has ingrained in us the "shape up or ship out" mentality, does that mean that is what is best for people in the long run? I find this concern with end results only very disturbingly cynical.

  14. #114

    Default Re: WE WON!!!!! Feng Tian Wei is our heroine!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by mattlock View Post
    I rather a locally nutured talent manage to only go to the quarter finals, while breaking the national record, rather than someone who's brought in and wins gold

    Look at the Singapore national football team.
    Do you remember the days of Fandi Ahmad, Malek Awab and co.?
    Do you remember how exhilarating it was watching them play against different Malaysian states?
    I'm sure the team today can perform on that level or better since we have so many people imported in to play for us.
    But surely I'm not the only person who feels that our locally bred team inspired more connection than a team made up of FTs.

    This is a very middle eastern approach towards everything, a clear example is Dubai.
    Want to develop fast? Just buy everything. Buy expensive architects, buy a Lourve, buy culture.

    It's such an Asian mentality, everything is about winning.Win at any cost, even if it means buying talents specially to compete with us.
    Sure other countries have chinese in their team. But look at the circumstances. How many of the foreigners in other teams went to that country specifically because they were scouted and paid to play that sport? Or did they immigrate to that country for other reasons, lived there, built up bonds, and also played sports.

    Let me state that I am fine with foreigners moving here, we are an immigrant society afterall.
    But the upper-level approach towards the welcoming of foreign talent is so driven by blatant ulterior motives.
    Kudos to you!! I am 100 percent with you and I must say it couldn't have been better said.

    With these dependence on FTs and as some said. Better sent the FTs than locals as locals can't win. Well then what makes one have any loyalty to Singapore when they are treated worse than FTs? And for me as a Singaporean... honestly... I don't know why but I just can't feel the same for Tao Li and the Ping Pong team although they won medals and broke records the same way I felt for Ang Peng Siong, Fandi, Joscelin and other SINGAPOREAN sportsmen and women.
    Last edited by aeskywan; 17th August 2008 at 04:39 PM.

  15. #115

    Default Re: WE WON!!!!! Feng Tian Wei is our heroine!!!!

    http://tieba.baidu.com/f?kz=426895254

    interview with li jiwei and feng tianwei

  16. #116

    Default Re: WE WON!!!!! Feng Tian Wei is our heroine!!!!

    Wow, I knew a subject like dat is sure to bring it cheers and the few jeers. Especially in Clubsnap, and true enough.

    I think this kind of discussion will never end. You can go to other local websites and a good handful of people are continually putting down these foreigners.

    As some have said I believe, we don't have much choice. Singapore could survive well today because we rely on $$$ to bring in foreigners. Much as we would like to pretend to convince ourselves (especially with the Nationdal Day just over) that we must stay united as Singaporeans, we are One Singapore, blah blah, we can't deny the foreign workforce is backing us up a lot. Look at the university lecturers, factory workers, construction workers, maids, CEOs, researchers, nurses, even doctors these days. FOREIGNERS. It's no difference in sports.

    As for the Olympics, I'm not so much fired up cos I think it's making a mountain out of a molehill. 48 years is shamefully way too long for a medal. Others are gunning for a gold or nothing but we are here now, like Olympic wannabes suddenly exclaiming: "WE ARE GETTING (at least) A SILVER!"

    I'm not for racial discrimination but it's weird seeing all the mainland Chinese names and faces in the papers and pretend to tell myself "HURRAY, WE DID IT!" It's always been to me like China vs China. Never mind the Chinese athletes have been here for a couple of years already and the local officials want to "psycho" us to believe, No, no, they are no longer China citizens. They are Singaporeans. They've trained here, they breathe the air here. They wear our colours. So they are like you. Sorry, it just doesn't sink into me that way. It's just a personal opinion. Your views may respectfully differ.

    There's no point asking these foreign born athletes also for their opinions about Singapore too. Cos they will give the usual diplomatic reply. Of course! their pay and future lie with us here. You think they are stupid to say "What's so great about Singapore? I would have left if there are greener pastures elsewhere." The sad truth is, that is probably the case. I have heard that said by many China undergrads locally who snubbed at the stupidity of the Singapore government. That they are here only cos we gave them scholarships. Singapore is a good place for a transition for them to brush up their English, for eg. Their eyes are actually set for the bigger countries, the US being a popular choice.

    As for sports, it's a win-win situation so the foreign-born athletes have little reason to retort that way unless they have been mistreated which they aren't. If all these China-born table tennis players had not been offered a better life here, would they have been given a chance to excel back in their own homes? Quite unlikely. Is there a S$1 million reward for a gold? That's ridiculous. Of course not. Over here, there's $$$ to get. Chance to train. Recognition to get for the atheletes, as well as the nation.

    Unfortunately, it doesn't overwhelm me to the point that "OH WOW! WE ARE IN, WE ARE IN! WE HAVE THE POTENTIAL TO HAVE MORE OLYMPIC MEDALLISTS IN FUTURE!" Firstly, who are the REAL contenders? Table tennis is not a widely contested sports, like swimming, athletics, tennis, etc. Who are the table tennis players from USA? Ha, China-born athletes also! Just lower ranked. Has anyone really heard of Nigeria excelling in table-tennis? Of course not. Netherlands? A slight maybe, but definitely not their strongest sports. So it's only Korea and China that we are concerned with. And they are Asian countries. So it's really Asian vs Asian. If anything, the proud achievement is beating Korea. It's like the Asian games. So I don't know why all the "hoo-ha" should come. If you introduced sepak takraw in the Olympics, I'm sure Singapore has a chance for a medal too, but then....? The point being...?

    As has been said, there is NO choice. Which true blue Singaporean parent will like to develop their child into an uncertain Olympic star even if the kid shows potential? so we have to get these foreigners in, like it or not. But you do have a choice how to feel and no one can say you are wrong. It's a personlal opinion. To me, it's still China vs China. It's a circumstantial issue that the China-born players have donned the Singapore colours.

    I don't think we are are sporting nation. We talk more than we do, for sure. How many here can name the big players in EPL in a moment's notice? I'm sure many can. But these many people probably haven't kicked many soccer balls?

    I read in the papers that Susilo, before he left, cautioned so much about how he was going to seriously eliminate his Malaysian opponent. I thought, finally, we were looking at something. When he suffered dismally, you couldn't help but wonder, where was the ferocity as promised? And then of course, the usual reply came, I wasn't concentrating, I was..., the opponent was stronger, blah blah. Cheah.

    Honestly, how many of you know the exact names (besides Li Jiawei, ha...) of our table tennis players before they left for Beijing? If you do, do you know their backgrounds like which town they were from originally, how many matches they've won/lost, or have you watched/supported their matched in the past, locally or overseas? If you have, then I guess you are a table-tennis fan! If you haven't the slightest clue, then that's normal. Perhaps you're just excited as a Singaporean who are seeing someone wearing a Singapore shirt in the Olympics who have now "a chance to win at least a silver".

    I feel this whole hoo-ha seems to be centered on making Singapore well-known to the rest of the world more than the fact that we are great in sports.

    Some joker set a super unrealistic target in the past "Goal 2010" as an aim to get Singapore into the World Cup finals. That's the worst joke I've heard. Qualifying in a world class event takes courage, perserverance, passion and above all, full dedication. It's a culture. We certainly lack a lot of these. We live in too safe and wholesome an environment. Would you rather have your kid growing up to be a doctor who was once active as a swimmer in his swmming club, or an unguaranteed Olympic swimming contender who COULD HAVE BEEN a doctor? I'm sure it's the former.

    Despite all these, I still wish our table tennis team the best. It's just interesting to finally see someone wearing the Singapore colours on TV in the highest international sports.

    As I've said, there is no end to the argument of whether we accept or downplay these foreingers. Just be thankful that we are not in some corrupted or war-torn country.

  17. #117

    Default Re: WE WON!!!!! Feng Tian Wei is our heroine!!!!

    Practically, we import everything, food, water, machinery....blah...blah...
    1DmkIII/5D+grip/40D+grip/CZ 35T*1.4/85T*1.4/17-40 f4 L/24-70 f2.8L/135 f2L/200 f2.8L/500 f4L IS

  18. #118

    Default Re: WE WON!!!!! Feng Tian Wei is our heroine!!!!

    thanx for the posts folks,i frankly think that there's some very well written stuff here regardless of opinions

  19. #119
    Moderator nightwolf75's Avatar
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    Default Re: WE WON!!!!! Feng Tian Wei is our heroine!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by mattlock View Post
    Just because society in Singapore has ingrained in us the "shape up or ship out" mentality, does that mean that is what is best for people in the long run? I find this concern with end results only very disturbingly cynical.
    jing, you spent your time in USA (and of all places, NY) to further your photographic career. you should have been able to observe up close the Americans are no better. if you are no good, you will be left for roadkill.

    in case you don't know, the USA is what it is today becos of its liberal (well, at least pre-9/11) immigration policies. even post-9/11 with all its strict restrictions (which, btw, is causing a lot of problems in their hi-tech industries... one might be surprised how much USA depends on engineers who come from other lands and graduating from US unis... cos US kids themselves shun such careers or just don't make the cut.), people still want to fight tooth-and-nail to get that green card.

    USA, too, wants the best people becos of wat they can bring to their country. the only difference bet SG and US is, perhaps, the way we treat failures and risk-taking. do not confuse this with what you deemed as 'cynical' attitude of SG towards a winner-takes-all mentality. every country in the world is fighting for talent, and if i might say so, SG is worrying becos we are not the first choice. insular societies, history has proven, don't survive. China was once a great nation, until it comes a point in their history (Ming dynasty, IIRC) that they closed their society off from foreign influx. their long decline (considering that they were the first to invent paper, printing, compass, gunpowder etc...) led to considerable national shame that till today, Chinese scholars are still berating the fact.

    if you want to know why China considered the olympics as such a big thing, you better understand their national shame.

    frankly, i rather learn from history and pray SG dun go down this route.

    btw, don't you think both singapore (where you are born) and US (where you work) are better off both because you are a singaporean FT in US?

    Quote Originally Posted by aeskywan View Post
    Kudos to you!! I am 100 percent with you and I must say it couldn't have been better said.

    With these dependence on FTs and as some said. Better sent the FTs than locals as locals can't win. Well then what makes one have any loyalty to Singapore when they are treated worse than FTs? And for me as a Singaporean... honestly... I don't know why but I just can't feel the same for Tao Li and the Ping Pong team although they won medals and broke records the same way I felt for Ang Peng Siong, Fandi, Joscelin and other SINGAPOREAN sportsmen and women.
    actually, wat you said is contradictory. so you rather have a bunch of loser-locals, than a bunch of can-win 'foreigners' who are willing to fight for SG on the olympic arena?

    this xenophobic attitude is, IMO, what is worrying at least for me. i heard more than enuf coffee shop talk abt how foreigners are taking away our jobs, our pay, or wives/husbands etc... so what is Tao Li or the Ping Pong team are not born locals? they carry the pink i/c. that makes them Singaporeans - one of us. period. our forebears were once like them.

    btw, when Tang Howe Liang won the silver at the 1960 Rome Olympics, technically speaking, he won it as a Malaysian (btw, he's also a China-born citizen from Swatow) becos Singapore was part of the Malayan Federation. so it is actually a Malaysian medal and not Singaporean. this time round, it is really our medal.

    if we have to depend on FTs to win, so be it. local born and bred people like us should suck it up and wake up. sorry if this sounds crude, but life sucks. granted not all FTs are talent, we have seen this in some of the failed experiments in soccer and athletics. however, think. i rather have this people around and make us all better off, whichever areas they may be, than to have them working for other nations of whom not all are friendly to singapore. i'm a firm believer of the “Nations have no permanent friends or allies, they only have permanent interests.” doctrine.

    does this make me a govt-stooge in your head? sad to say, i am abt as an anarchist as one can get working in a civil service. in fact, becos i work in the civil service that i can see better the warts of the government. they don't always get things right. but, this is one area i rather think they did.

    you should read Richard Florida's "Who's your city?" and "The Rise of the Creative Class" - 2 seminal books which have greatly influenced many nation's leaders (including ours) on this hunt for talent everywhere.

    right now in my staff room, i am glad we have a sprinkling of "FT" teachers teaching our singaporean students. i am glad we have foreign students in my school. we have china-born teachers (many of them PRs) teaching our kids mandarin. one of my school kids (a local, not your 'FT') just came back from beijing, after representing SG in an international chinese translation contest. guess what? she came in overall-3rd, and team champion, beating even teams from China, HK and Taiwan. she is now going on a half-year, fully paid scholarship to study in china. i seriously doubt we can even achieve this without your so-called 'FTs'. our dept recently have a ROMANIAN born, but SG-PR now, teacher. the students just love her because she brought an added dimension to classroom teaching. who would you rather have - a SG who reads abt Romania and teach, or a real-life Romanian teaching Romania?

    well, despite this lengthy post, i doubt i can sway any xenophobes out there. feel free to pound your collective chests and curse me for being a pro-govt stooge. right now, i rather go and watch OUR TEAM beat the crap out of china.
    If Life worked on auto mode then manual mode for photography would have never existed.” ― Deeksha Mittal

  20. #120
    Senior Member egnaro's Avatar
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    Default Re: WE WON!!!!! Feng Tian Wei is our heroine!!!!

    oh no!!!!
    Life is like Photography, to improve, you have to keep shooting!

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