Smile

[jtsky]

Hi,

I tried to put up this thread last week but didn't know about the 1 image per week guideline. Mr Stoned has been very generous and kind by giving me some advices even I didn't follow the guideline. I retake the picture of my daugther. Try to put a light in front of her to produce the catchlight. I converted the picture to b & W using the "Greg Gorman" method (I hope it is better this time in maintaining the detail). The exposure: f1.8, 1/40 sec, ISO 400. Please advice on anything you think can help me to improve. Thanks for your time.

The previous picture link: http://gallery.clubsnap.com/data/500/medium/smile12.jpg

[jtsky]

Hi Mr Stoned. Thanks for your advices on my thread "Smile" last week. Thanks for the very useful information you give me. I don't even know what is "catchlight" before you tell me.

[zac08]

Nice good feel on this one. Noise level is pretty acceptable here. If you wish to open up more details on the right side of the pic, you can choose to use a reflector there. Basically anything large enough and reflective enough can do. I've even used a white pillow before

[vonlichenstein]

I feel the picture is kind of dark, it feels a little... underexposed? I'm not sure if its the exposure, since zac hasn't said anything about it. may just be my monitor. But i like the composition, and the noise level is, as he said, acceptable.

[m3lv1nh0]

Seems to be alittle soft. Notice that your shutter speed is 1/40 which may be too slow. Try 1/60 and up your ISO to 640 or 800. The composition, expression and b/w convertion looks sound to me. One easy way to get catchlights and nice lightings is to place your subject near a window during the day of course. The window will difuss the sunlight which will create a nice lighting around your subject.

[calebk]

For a black and white conversion, it's not "black and white" enough. Simply said, there's not enough contrast. Shadow area is dark enough but highlight area could be brighter.

And why's the toning so strongly yellow?

[jtsky]

Hi
Thanks for all the advices.
Mr zac08,
To be honest, I didn't think of the background everytime I try to shoot a photo. I didn't realise background is so important where it can affect the detail of an image. I will pay more attention to it.
Mr vonlichenstein & m3lv1nh0,
Thanks. I think my photo is really too underexposed. I try to adjust using the raw, still unable to bring up the expousre. I tried to shoot again using 1/60 and ISO to 640 as suggested, the image is much better. Thanks.
Mr. calebk,
I did add in yellow tone, thought of creating an old photo effect. I don't know this will affect the photo so much. Could you please suggest any better conversion method I can reference to. The conversion method I used is following the steps from a website links suggested by someone I read from CS (I couldn't find the post now).

[nigel84]

I dunno abt many others, but after i opened the link for 2 secs and the pic loads up, i instantly closed it. I dun mean to be mean here, but the pic really looks like there is a very errie, very dark side. Kinda like the movie "chucky" and his trade mark smile looking at me. I don't mean to offend! However, the grain is gd, the BnW here is barely acceptable but if i were you i would +ev here. To me, a smiling pic would always relate in a better way with brighter and vibrantly coloured pics. Best is have those rosy cheeks, pearly white teeth, and reflective eyes! Tt would be best. If you would not mind prob you can send me the RAW file of this pic? Let me see what can i do to it. email me at: nigel_4ever@hotmail.com

[jtsky]

Thanks. Mr. nigel84, I will send you the raw. I joined clubsnap after I bought my camera last month. I never expect there are so many ppl here so willingly offer helps to newbie. Sharing their experience. Thanks again.

[calebk]

Originally Posted by jtsky ... Mr. calebk, I did add in yellow tone, thought of creating an old photo effect. I don't know this will affect the photo so much. Could you please suggest any better conversion method I can reference to. The conversion method I used is following the steps from a website links suggested by someone I read from CS (I couldn't find the post now).

The conversion is not the problem. You mentioned the Gorman method? I use that method all the time for my B&W conversion too, and so far, I have loved the results I get. The toning comes in when you select a colour for your Colour Fill layer. For best results, just pick black. Don't overtone an image. Toning, if any, should be subtle.

The Gorman method, when used properly, gives a tonality very similar to film. Here are some examples. Let me know if you want them taken down.

If you notice, when I place the images back to back, you see that the image of the Flyer has a bit of a warm tone, but it is not done to the point that it jumps out at you. Your toning plays a part in telling the story. For instance, you wanted to achieve an aged look, but you are taking a photo of a very *young* person. That's not coherent and it doesn't make sense.

Subtle warm toning on the other hand, is used to draw the viewer in.

[vonlichenstein]

Originally Posted by calebk

Is the grain in this picture noise or PP grain? just a curious, it addes a very nice feel to the picture.

[calebk]

Originally Posted by vonlichenstein Is the grain in this picture noise or PP grain? just a curious, it addes a very nice feel to the picture.

It is noise - equipment limitation - because it was shot with an Ixus compact camera.

[vonlichenstein]

Originally Posted by calebk It is noise - equipment limitation - because it was shot with an Ixus compact camera.

oooh. but it adds a very nice texture (if thats the right word) to the picture.

[jtsky]

Hi Mr Calebk,
Thanks for showing the photos, Please help me, I really hope to improve my conversion technique.
The following is the step I used, beside the colour tone, is there anything else I can improve.
1. OPEN A COLOR IMAGE IN PHOTOSHOP
2. UNDER YOUR ACTION PALETTE POP OUT MENU, SELECT NEW ACTION
3. NAME THE ACTION BLACK AND WHITE CONVERSION
4. ASSIGN A FUNCTION KEY SUCH AS F1 TO YOUR ACTION
5. SELECT RECORD
6. UNDER THE IMAGE MENU, SELECT MODE>LAB COLOR
7. CLICK (HIGHLIGHT) THE LIGHTNESS CHANNEL
8. UNDER THE IMAGE MENU, SELECT MODE>GRAYSCALE (DISCARD COLOR INFORMATION)
9. COMMAND\CONTROL CLICK ON THE GRAY CHANNEL (TO LOAD THE SELECTION)
10. UNDER THE SELECT MENU, CHOOSE IMAGE>INVERSE TO SELECT THE SHADOWS
11. UNDER IMAGE MENU, CHOOSE MODE>RGB COLOR
12. IN THE ADJUSTMENT LAYERS PALETTE CHOOSE SOLID COLOR
13. SELECT A COLOR FROM THE COLOR PICKER OR FROM THE SWATCHES PALETTE (WHICH I PREFER BECAUSE
YOU CAN SAVE A CUSTOM COLOR)
14. YOUR CHOICE OF COLOR SHOULD BE BASED ON THE TONAL RANGE YOU WISH TO SEE IN YOUR FINAL
TONED B&W
15. GO TO YOUR LAYERS PALETTE AND CHANGE YOUR BLENDING MODE TO MULITIPLY
16. BECAUSE YOUR COLOR FILL IS ON A LAYER YOU MAY ADJUST THE OPACITY TO DIAL BACK THE COLOR THAT
YOU DESIRE
17. IN ADDITION (IMPORTANT), YOU MAY ADD A CURVES OR LEVELS ADJUSTMENT TO ACHIEVE THE DESIRED
CONTRAST
18. SHOULD YOU WISH TO CHANGE THE COLOR OF YOUR B&W “DUOTONE” SIMPLY DOUBLE CLICK THE COLOR
FILL AND RESELECT THE COLOR
19. CREATE A NEW LAYEr
20. WHILE HOLDING THE OPTION BUTTON GO TO THE POP OUT MENU AND SELECT MERGE VISIBLE
21. CHANGE THE BLENDING MODE TO OVERLAY
22. REDUCE THE OPACITY TO 20%
23. CHOOSE FILTER-OTHER. THEN SELECT-HIGH PASS. SET RADIUS AT 50 PIXELS
24. DOUBLE CLICK THE NEW LAYER TO BRING UP LAYER PROPERTIES
25. BRING THE BLACK POINT ARROW IN TO 70. NEXT OPTION CLICK THE BLACK POINT ARROW TO SPLIT THEM,
PULLING ONE HALF OF THE ARROW BACK TO 50
26. BRING THE WHITE POINT ARROW IN TO 185. NEXT OPTION CLICK THE WHITE POINT ARROW TO SPLIT THEM,
PULLING ONE HALF OF THE ARROW BACK TO 205. CLICK OK
27. IF NECESSARY THE OPACITY MAY BE VARIED TO REACH YOUR DESIRED ADJUSTMENT
28. UNDER THE FILE MENU SELECT SAVE AS AND CHOOSE YOUR FILE AND LOCATION (FOR EXAMPLE DESKTOP>NEW
FOLDER> BLACK AND WHITE CONVERSIONS)
29. IF YOU CHOOSE NOT TO FLATTEN YOUR FILE AT THIS TIME YOU MAY BE ABLE TO CHANGE THE TONAL AND
CONTRAST ADJUSTMENTS TO DIFFERENT SETTINGS IN THE FUTURE IF DESIRED
30. CLOSE YOUR FILE
31. STOP YOUR ACTION IN YOUR ACTION PALETTE
32. THIS COMPLETES CREATING YOUR ACTION AND ASSIGNING A FUNCTION KEY. ALL THAT IS NECESSARY TO
DO AFTER OPENING A COLOR IMAGE IN PHOTOSHOP IS TO PRESS YOUR FUNCTION KEY. ALL YOUR FINE
TUNING ADJUSTMENTS MAY NOW BE PERFORMED ON THE INDIVIDUAL LAYERS AS DESIRED

[calebk]

Erm...why'd you have to do everything in caps. It's really such a pain to read.

This sounds close to what I'm doing, just that mine is already a pre-recorded action so I don't even know what happens anymore. I recorded the action close to a year back, on my own, in Photoshop.

See here: http://www.blackandwhitedigital.com/...al/gorman.html

Besides following the conversion, one has to look out for how much colour fill (shadow) to put into the shot. Sometimes, too much of the colour fill will result in loss of detail in the shadows, or an overall darker shot.

[jtsky]

Originally Posted by calebk Erm...why'd you have to do everything in caps. It's really such a pain to read. This sounds close to what I'm doing, just that mine is already a pre-recorded action so I don't even know what happens anymore. I recorded the action close to a year back, on my own, in Photoshop. See here: http://www.blackandwhitedigital.com/...al/gorman.html Besides following the conversion, one has to look out for how much colour fill (shadow) to put into the shot. Sometimes, too much of the colour fill will result in loss of detail in the shadows, or an overall darker shot.

Sorry. I copy & paste the steps from the manual I got from the website u mentioned. I think I got the link from one of your post if not wrong. Thanks

[nigel84]

this was the original pic you sent me.
[IMG][/IMG]

with the dark BG and your girl looks flat with the colours.

Coloured version
[IMG][/IMG]

and the Sepia Version
[IMG][/IMG]

I not a pro in PP, but, i really can't do much with the jpeg file you sent me. Compression was very obvious when i opened the file. So pardon me for the quality. but generally the idea is there.

[cheguthamrin]

You know, actually you had me started to take black and white photos of my son having fever - pls refer to the thread Fever in this segment and Aaryan and Adam in Portraits and Poses.

There were times I convert to black and white from colour


This was converted from colour - no flash


Also from colour to mono - in flash used

but this one straight shot in mono - no flash


I dont know how to explain further, but there are differences betewen my shot and yours; obviously - duh~
Is it the composition?
Is it the amount of light?
Is it the contrast / mildtones?

But based on nigel84's recent reply; the first original shot is already not impressive enough to make some impact, let alone to be converted to mono.
I'm still learning like you, perhaps someone else can point out something about my reply here.

[jtsky]

Originally Posted by cheguthamrin You know, actually you had me started to take black and white photos of my son having fever - pls refer to the thread Fever in this segment and Aaryan and Adam in Portraits and Poses. There were times I convert to black and white from colour This was converted from colour - no flash Also from colour to mono - in flash used but this one straight shot in mono - no flash I dont know how to explain further, but there are differences betewen my shot and yours; obviously - duh~ Is it the composition? Is it the amount of light? Is it the contrast / mildtones? But based on nigel84's recent reply; the first original shot is already not impressive enough to make some impact, let alone to be converted to mono. I'm still learning like you, perhaps someone else can point out something about my reply here.

Read your post (fever), glad that ur son has recover now. Virus fever usually get very high (~39-40), and it will go up and down. if u monitor at home, just monitor the peak of each up slope, make sure it is at the down trend. Did the doc prescribed him with voltaren supp, the doc give my daugther that 12 hourly last time with high grade fever also (39.8). It works like miracle. Sponging with wet cloth on the major vessels area(neck, groin, forehead) will help too. Hope everyone in ur family is healthy and happy. thanks.