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Thread: Wedding Photos not Received

  1. #21
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    Default Re: Wedding Photos not Received

    The end products we need to get are the disc and a slot-in album.

    Anyway, this was what happened earlier on.

    They contacted me through SMS telling me to meet them to collect our photos. They keep insisting that it is fair to have to meet them in Central area because they went the 'extra mile' to re-edit our pictures which we did not request at all. And they added that they shouldn't incur extra charges to give us our photos. I told them to courier us since we are already occupied with our own stuff. Their reply was that they will send it to us personally but we have to pay them another 10 dollars. In the end we got our photos but they passed the photos disinterestedly, sourly refused the 10 dollars and immediately drove off.

    We were already busy and had no business going to Central in the first place. And if it was in their terms and conditions that we had to collect it ourselves, they shouldn't have told us that they would consider meeting us to pass the photos in the first place. Additionally, we gave them extra money for their services when we made the full payment. Does this mean that we went the 'extra mile' as well and should be justified in getting our photos delivered?

    True, it can be said that we give the extra money out of goodwill, so does that mean that their uncalled-for re-editing is done out of goodwill as well? If that's the case, they shouldn't even bring that up to us in the first place.

    Ultimately, we are not happy that they did not state firmly in the first place that we have to collect from them and request for delivery is not allowed.

    The last message I got was that they don't want to do our pre-wedding outdoor shoot. This is a very unprofessional conduct for a company.

    To quote from Zeisser
    "to cause anxiety and I am sure stress upon the newly weds
    who has to keep chasing for their pictures is totally absurd"


    That was what exactly what we went through.

    And Cheesecake is right, 'take it easy ppl.' =)

    PS: By the way, we felt that the company was not very professional as we had disagreements before on the term TFCD.
    And is it true that editing is done only for studio and outdoor shoots and not for ROM/AD ?
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  2. #22

    Default Re: Wedding Photos not Received

    Quote Originally Posted by lancey View Post
    Did the photographer remove his lens cap before shooting your wedding? Maybe no photos to show you, you never know.
    I think that assumption from you is really uncalled for ..

  3. #23

    Default Re: Wedding Photos not Received

    Quote Originally Posted by SnowSkin View Post
    PS: By the way, we felt that the company was not very professional as we had disagreements before on the term TFCD.
    And is it true that editing is done only for studio and outdoor shoots and not for ROM/AD ?
    There are various degree of editing to the pictures, general and corrective editing to some of the pictures. I believe all photos should be edited in terms of contrast and it will make it more appealing. That will include photos from ROM and AD.

  4. #24
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    Default Re: Wedding Photos not Received

    Thanks for the quick reply Luval. Appreciate it. Just to check one more thing, is minimal scar removing (like a small mole or 1-3 bumps on skin) and minimal skin smoothening considered tedious editing and not basic editing?
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  5. #25
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    Default Re: Wedding Photos not Received

    Quote Originally Posted by SnowSkin View Post
    Thanks for the quick reply Luval. Appreciate it. Just to check one more thing, is minimal scar removing (like a small mole or 1-3 bumps on skin) and minimal skin smoothening considered tedious editing and not basic editing?
    depends on what's the final output and also what is agreed between two parties.

    usually no touch up being done on AD/ROM photos especially on 4R prints, if customer insist, the will be additional cost involve, imagine, $2 per piece for each touch up on 4R, the total additional cost can be few hundred dollars.
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  6. #26
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wedding Photos not Received

    Quote Originally Posted by lancey View Post
    Did the photographer remove his lens cap before shooting your wedding? Maybe no photos to show you, you never know.
    this is not funny, and uncalled-for.
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  7. #27
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    Default Re: Wedding Photos not Received

    Quote Originally Posted by SnowSkin View Post
    ..................................

    PS: By the way, we felt that the company was not very professional as we had disagreements before on the term TFCD.
    And is it true that editing is done only for studio and outdoor shoots and not for ROM/AD ?
    what is the term TFCD all about? how does it come into picture?

    as I mention earlier, event type photos usually don't have touch up, especially 4R prints, unless customers willing to pay.
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  8. #28

    Default Re: Wedding Photos not Received

    Quote Originally Posted by SnowSkin View Post
    Thanks for the quick reply Luval. Appreciate it. Just to check one more thing, is minimal scar removing (like a small mole or 1-3 bumps on skin) and minimal skin smoothening considered tedious editing and not basic editing?
    Those that u mentioned above are considered extensive editing. editing few is rather okie.. imagine you have to go thru the 300 prints.

  9. #29
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wedding Photos not Received

    Quote Originally Posted by Luval View Post
    Those that u mentioned above are considered extensive editing. editing few is rather okie.. imagine you have to go thru the 300 prints.
    let says each print take 3 mins to touch up, 300 prints takes 15 hours.....
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  10. #30

    Default Re: Wedding Photos not Received

    I wonder why suddenly TFCD comes in?

    Anyway folks, they got the album already, so really no point speculates any further, somemore no names given, why discuss further.

    Not pointed at TS, there are always threads appeared to create stirs and troubles as no names given etc, so just beware. Go and shoot, enjoy the NDP.

    more debate leads to more debates.
    Last edited by fotoudavid; 9th August 2008 at 06:42 PM.
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  11. #31
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    Default Re: Wedding Photos not Received

    A Wedding is a joyous and once in a lifetime occassion for two people.The planning,preparations and the fruititon of the event had to be finally marred
    by such unpleasantries I really feel for this couple.

  12. #32

    Default Re: Wedding Photos not Received

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeisser View Post
    A Wedding is a joyous and once in a lifetime occassion for two people.The planning,preparations and the fruititon of the event had to be finally marred
    by such unpleasantries I really feel for this couple.
    Hi there, i think there is no need to jump into conclusion without getting a full picture of the situation. Yes wedding is a joyous and once in a lifetime occasion, which we will all agree, but that does not means the professional at work would be subjected to all sorts of nonsense. First of all, a contract of agreement was agreed and signed between two parties, which are above 18(i supposed). The terms and conditions all are stated inside, which the client could jolly don't sign and walk away if something is not right. Different photographers have different timeline, and 4-6 weeks for delivering initial preview is actually pretty common practice. Couples are getting more demanding(for the kind of money they, they should), so any professional should know better to pass them a set of unedited photos. Secondly, i think you have heard of bridezilla? I personally have the clause that states that if i am subjected to physical or verbal abuse, i have the right to walk out the wedding. I am not saying that all clients are difficult, but obviously every one have different expectations and you just have to deal with it, and in the worst of lot, just stick to the black and white. For this, i always ensure my clients gets a copy of the contract in hard/soft copy so that they can be always refer back on what is written inside.

    All in all, there is no need to condemn something just hearing one side of the story.

  13. #33

    Default Re: Wedding Photos not Received

    Very confusing.

    1st post like photos were NOT delivered.

    Next post like they WERE delivered, but both sides like bo kuan guan.

    What is the COMPLETE picture?

  14. #34

    Default Re: Wedding Photos not Received

    i say. give the photographer a call and ask for at least some samples of prove. say maybe your friends are dying to see it :P out station next week. riceproject winner? :P

  15. #35

    Default The Back Story

    It's my fault that the TFCD suddenly appeared. The story is this:

    *names changed to protect identities- Snowskin is seeking advice on how to deal with a difficult photographer, not to defame him

    The photographer was looking for a couple to shoot TFCD. I e-mailed him and said that I have a couple he can shoot. That couple was Snowskin+fiance.

    I suggested that if the photos from the couple shoot was nice, it would be nice to display them at their wedding ceremony. Snowskin+fiance, at my suggestion, agreed with me and planned outfits, brought props, etc. (no wedding gown as per a pre-wedding shoot). When Snowskin let slip that they would like to use the photos from the couple shoot for their AD, the photographer wanted to charge. Below is the conversation:

    yeah it'l be up there soon (meaning the photos from their couple shoot will be up on his website)...but i hafta charge them a fee if they are
    using it for their album during the ROM becoz initially it was for a
    couple's TFCD then Snowskin* told me that it was going to be used for
    her ROM so i told her that i will shoot for her free...but if she
    wants to use it for her ROM she have to pay me for the photos and if
    she thinks i am good enuff i will shoot for her ROM too...i'm not sure
    if she told you that

    So here is how I tried to remedy the situation i.e., a couple wants to use photos from a TFCD couple shoot at their wedding and the photographer sees the opportunity to make money:

    Hi Idiot Photographer*,

    Correct me if I'm wrong, TFCD means time for CD. This is an exchange of their time, effort, and stuff for your portfolio, for the photos that you will provide. The purpose of a TFCD is for mutual benefit. In this case, the engagement shoot is, in several ways, mutually beneficial: they will receive their engagement photos (for which they must spend their own money in order to make the albums), and you will have stuff for your portfolio as well as free promotion when the couple displays your photos at their ROM.

    I can understand if you want to charge them because they will make a profit from the photos, but obviously they will not. This is not a case in which they are buying the copyright from you because it is assumed that you will use the photos to expand your portfolio. (That is what TFCD means.) The only one who will stand to make a profit is you, because when other people see your photos and if they like your photos, they will ask for your business card.

    By right, as the shoot was TFCD, the couple is free to do as they wish with the photos because it is a mutual understanding that you will use those photos for your own benefit, e.g. self-promotion.

    You most certainly do not "hafta charge them a fee if they are using it for their album". This is an unfair practice. I urge you to reconsider your decision.

    I understand wedding practices (my husband is a wedding photographer). If every couple who asks for a TFCD couple shoot ends up using it as their pre-wedding, that means many many money-making opportunities are missed.

    It appeared, however, that the photographer treated this TFCD couple shoot exactly like a TFCD shoot- 30+ edited photos (pretty cheesy PS by my standard, but okay with Snowskin) slapped onto a CD and delivered in an untimely fashion.

    His response:

    Ok i get u...and since i promised you to do a TFCD for your friends i will honour my words to you.

    Becoz i have discussed with Snowskin* before asking her if she would pay for my service or just shooting for free.
    She said she will pay for the photos if she thinks she likes them. So on to continue my service to shoot for her ROM and AD and engaged a very good make up artist who charge her at my price $50 instead of $180.
    That is my understanding. Not that i am going back on my words. So i guess there is some misunderstanding somewhere and furthermore she has been seeking advice from you. She was not clear on this issue. So it is not a problem with my integrity.

    I did discuss with her about the photoshoot. Telling her i will not charge her for the shoot. But if she likes my photos she can purchase them...and if she doesn't like them then its my own fault for not doing a good job and therefore i wasted everyone's time. She was agreeable. So i will not reason anymore or wish to come up with anymore explanations regarding this...she will have the photos in a CD with my watermark. My promise to you. Fulfilled.

    But in future if you are the middle person, please let it be you to discuss the details with me directly or her communicating with me directly. I don't wish to have such trivial misunderstanding mar my reputation. I hope you have my understanding

    Sticker points:

    1) He wanted TFCD couple shoot, I provided him with the couple and stated clearly that they need engagement photos, as in the following exchange between me and the photog:

    P.S. Do you need couples to shoot TFCD? I have some friends who need engagement photos.

    i dun mind doing TFCD for couples...pls let mi know if their are interested

    I told him that the couple needed engagement photos and asked him if he would shoot them TF, he agreed, then he turned around and wanted to charge them.

    2) What's the difference between fulfilling a promise to me and fulfilling a promise to them? The photog was advertising for TFCD couple shoots, I saw his advertisement and provided him with Snowskin+fiance, who were aware that money was not to change hands as it was a TFCD shoot.

    3) An MUA was not requested. It was just a TFCD couple shoot, like many other CS photogs would do. Why did he spend money on one? He couldn't get a TF MUA?

    Anyway, after that experience, I dunno why the TS engaged him for her ROM/AD.

    So that's the story behind the sudden appearance of TFCD for those who have asked.
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  16. #36
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    Default Re: Wedding Photos not Received

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    When someone doesn't name the other party, there's some reason to wonder why. Naming the other party puts the other side in the limelight and he/she will then face pressure to respond. It is only after hearing both sides can a conclusion be made.
    there's also the risk of defamation if things get to heated and something slips le...have to consider that too.
    Opinions are like A-holes. Everyone's got one.

  17. #37
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Wedding Photos not Received

    Well so long as the complainant can prove the truth of what he says, that shouldn't be too much a deterrent. It also encourages one to think carefully before adding too much spice :P

    Quote Originally Posted by TheQuestion View Post
    there's also the risk of defamation if things get to heated and something slips le...have to consider that too.

  18. #38
    vince123123
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    Default Re: The Back Story

    Amazing, a "pro" changing the terms of the TFCD when he sees there's money to be made...sigh yet another opportunist at work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Triazolium View Post
    It's my fault that the TFCD suddenly appeared. The story is this:

    *names changed to protect identities- Snowskin is seeking advice on how to deal with a difficult photographer, not to defame him

    The photographer was looking for a couple to shoot TFCD. I e-mailed him and said that I have a couple he can shoot. That couple was Snowskin+fiance.

    I suggested that if the photos from the couple shoot was nice, it would be nice to display them at their wedding ceremony. Snowskin+fiance, at my suggestion, agreed with me and planned outfits, brought props, etc. (no wedding gown as per a pre-wedding shoot). When Snowskin let slip that they would like to use the photos from the couple shoot for their AD, the photographer wanted to charge. Below is the conversation:
    yeah it'l be up there soon (meaning the photos from their couple shoot will be up on his website)...but i hafta charge them a fee if they are
    using it for their album during the ROM becoz initially it was for a
    couple's TFCD then Snowskin* told me that it was going to be used for
    her ROM so i told her that i will shoot for her free...but if she
    wants to use it for her ROM she have to pay me for the photos and if
    she thinks i am good enuff i will shoot for her ROM too...i'm not sure
    if she told you that
    So here is how I tried to remedy the situation i.e., a couple wants to use photos from a TFCD couple shoot at their wedding and the photographer sees the opportunity to make money:
    Hi Idiot Photographer*,

    Correct me if I'm wrong, TFCD means time for CD. This is an exchange of their time, effort, and stuff for your portfolio, for the photos that you will provide. The purpose of a TFCD is for mutual benefit. In this case, the engagement shoot is, in several ways, mutually beneficial: they will receive their engagement photos (for which they must spend their own money in order to make the albums), and you will have stuff for your portfolio as well as free promotion when the couple displays your photos at their ROM.

    I can understand if you want to charge them because they will make a profit from the photos, but obviously they will not. This is not a case in which they are buying the copyright from you because it is assumed that you will use the photos to expand your portfolio. (That is what TFCD means.) The only one who will stand to make a profit is you, because when other people see your photos and if they like your photos, they will ask for your business card.

    By right, as the shoot was TFCD, the couple is free to do as they wish with the photos because it is a mutual understanding that you will use those photos for your own benefit, e.g. self-promotion.

    You most certainly do not "hafta charge them a fee if they are using it for their album". This is an unfair practice. I urge you to reconsider your decision.
    I understand wedding practices (my husband is a wedding photographer). If every couple who asks for a TFCD couple shoot ends up using it as their pre-wedding, that means many many money-making opportunities are missed.

    It appeared, however, that the photographer treated this TFCD couple shoot exactly like a TFCD shoot- 30+ edited photos (pretty cheesy PS by my standard, but okay with Snowskin) slapped onto a CD and delivered in an untimely fashion.

    His response:
    Ok i get u...and since i promised you to do a TFCD for your friends i will honour my words to you.

    Becoz i have discussed with Snowskin* before asking her if she would pay for my service or just shooting for free.
    She said she will pay for the photos if she thinks she likes them. So on to continue my service to shoot for her ROM and AD and engaged a very good make up artist who charge her at my price $50 instead of $180.
    That is my understanding. Not that i am going back on my words. So i guess there is some misunderstanding somewhere and furthermore she has been seeking advice from you. She was not clear on this issue. So it is not a problem with my integrity.

    I did discuss with her about the photoshoot. Telling her i will not charge her for the shoot. But if she likes my photos she can purchase them...and if she doesn't like them then its my own fault for not doing a good job and therefore i wasted everyone's time. She was agreeable. So i will not reason anymore or wish to come up with anymore explanations regarding this...she will have the photos in a CD with my watermark. My promise to you. Fulfilled.

    But in future if you are the middle person, please let it be you to discuss the details with me directly or her communicating with me directly. I don't wish to have such trivial misunderstanding mar my reputation. I hope you have my understanding
    Sticker points:

    1) He wanted TFCD couple shoot, I provided him with the couple and stated clearly that they need engagement photos, as in the following exchange between me and the photog:
    P.S. Do you need couples to shoot TFCD? I have some friends who need engagement photos.

    i dun mind doing TFCD for couples...pls let mi know if their are interested
    I told him that the couple needed engagement photos and asked him if he would shoot them TF, he agreed, then he turned around and wanted to charge them.

    2) What's the difference between fulfilling a promise to me and fulfilling a promise to them? The photog was advertising for TFCD couple shoots, I saw his advertisement and provided him with Snowskin+fiance, who were aware that money was not to change hands as it was a TFCD shoot.

    3) An MUA was not requested. It was just a TFCD couple shoot, like many other CS photogs would do. Why did he spend money on one? He couldn't get a TF MUA?

    Anyway, after that experience, I dunno why the TS engaged him for her ROM/AD.

    So that's the story behind the sudden appearance of TFCD for those who have asked.

  19. #39
    Member TheQuestion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wedding Photos not Received

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    Well so long as the complainant can prove the truth of what he says, that shouldn't be too much a deterrent. It also encourages one to think carefully before adding too much spice :P
    ya and one can never be too careful right?
    Opinions are like A-holes. Everyone's got one.

  20. #40

    Default Re: Wedding Photos not Received

    Assuming that this is the case ...

    SIGH! My friends and people who ask me for advise always BALK, look STUNNED and are generally SHOCKED when i tell them, even though it's a small (to them) arrangement, just put it in writing and get both sides to sign it.

    An agreement. A guide. A map ... when things get confusing, or messy, or when peoples' feelings change, or, in the worst case scenario, a clear reference of what was agreed, especially when there's unhappiness.

    I don't understand why so many locals, or Asians think a written agreement is like a seal on their coffin or something truly evil!

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