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Thread: Lense (sic)

  1. #21
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    I observe resistance amongst the masses here. Understandable, after all English is a multi-faceted and often confusing language. It's wide usage has resulted in variants and mutants of "classic" English words, and we only have to look to the Americans as a perfect example.

    Yes, the Mariam-Webster dictionary accepts "lense" as an alternative spelling, but I can only postulate that that is so because the frequent misspelling of the word has ultimately deemed it fit to be part of the dictionary's list. Haven't we seen that many a times before...

    I'm not a purist, but I'm not about to play a part in mutilating the English language either. So it's "lens" for me, nothing else.

  2. #22
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    if you go to www.m-w.com and search for lense, it is defined as a variant of lens.

    Americano vs queen english again, so Singlish also can lah. if we have a population of 1 billion people we can then make singlish the official language then we can spell it anyway we want loh.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by pcwe68
    if you go to www.m-w.com and search for lense, it is defined as a variant of lens.
    geez, did you even read my post?

  4. #24
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    yep, just point to the dictionary site for the rest to search.

  5. #25
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    maybe my ang mo not as good as yours, so maybe I seems to reply to your mail, but actually I just want to point to the site for the others (as you did not as merely state that it is define as such in mw). fierce man!

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    1 more thing, I wouldn't call it killing English, its modernisng it, it has to constantly improves as a language, otherwise today we will still be using pronoun like

    thou
    thee

    then again without improvement, maybe we can understand Shakespeare better and get distinction for Literature.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by pcwe68
    maybe my ang mo not as good as yours, so maybe I seems to reply to your mail, but actually I just want to point to the site for the others (as you did not as merely state that it is define as such in mw). fierce man!
    Now I dunno if you've even read the whole thread, considering tsystem has posted the Mariam-Webster link in this very thread.

    *shrug*

  8. #28
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    actually not everything , just quickly scan thru, so miss that link, when I saw the overall discussion I just remember this was discuss in dpreview, and someone also mention about it found in most american dictionary, which is the actual point I was trying to put across, that its americano vs queen english vs rest of the world probably lah. (see ang mo no good, so can't even bring my point across to you) No right no wrong, more commonly use then will be finally accepted and we should change and adapt, otherwise

    Thou art obsolescence.

    Last thing what the America ang mo and British ang mo wants, imagine everyone speaking mandarin.

    Even Chinese also have new words everyday (remember SARS)



    So keep up and accept changes. Its not killing it.
    Last edited by pcwe68; 22nd August 2003 at 05:55 PM.

  9. #29
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    Also, you can see my posting so little, so see anything that I can add my 2 cents, I just post. At least I am not posting Upz Upz Upz right.

    Sorry loh.

    One more post.

  10. #30
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    Interesting point you are trying to make, but I'm still not buying it, and I'm not adverse to changes, you have mistaken the whole point of my discussion. Change is good, if from it derives a benefit. In this case, the origin of the the word "lense" is a mistake, and it's unconscionable to me to accept a mistake as a norm. But of course, if one is willing to tolerate and live with such glaring imperfections, I can understand where you come from.

    Your philosphy of "everyone is doing it, therefore it must be right" is intriguing to say the very least, I'm wondering if you have thought about the consequences of what you profess, or was it just an off-the-cuff remark?

  11. #31
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    I agree with u actually, but the world has become thus. Well, everyone has to make a choice loh, either hold your own principles and fight these mistakes, or if you can't beat them join them and accept but just don't make those mistake and expect everyone to accept it as the norm (that's very americano way of doing things, well their big you know).

    And if the dictionary accepted it, what to do? Imagine your teacher mark you wrong and you fail a spelling test, of course you use all resources to get that mark back so you can pass lah, who care if the origin is a mistake. If teacher like you don't accept then complain MOE.

    Ye, another post.
    Last edited by pcwe68; 22nd August 2003 at 06:16 PM.

  12. #32

    Default OT interesting story

    Quote Originally Posted by pcwe68
    1 more thing, I wouldn't call it killing English, its modernisng it, it has to constantly improves as a language, otherwise today we will still be using pronoun like

    thou
    thee

    then again without improvement, maybe we can understand Shakespeare better and get distinction for Literature.
    Off topic, An interesting story -

    The original spelling of thou was ou, using the character '' which is pronounced as th (th pronounciation that you get in words like 'the', 'them' etc. This is different from the pronounciation of th in words like 'thought', 'think' etc). So the word is written as ou and pronounced as thou. When the printing press was introduced in Britain, it could not print the character '' (Printing press was invented in germany, which used latin based characters. was derived from Nordic rune characters).

    So since the printing press could not print the '' character (the character was called 'thorn'), they replaced it with 'y', so that the word was printed as 'you' (but still pronounced as 'thou'). After some time, the pronounciation changed to the way it was written. After a while, the '' character disappeared from the english alphabet (Apparantly this character is still in use in Nordic languages like icelandic)

    Thats why you see some shops that try to use old english, you see names like 'Ye olde shoppe', the 'Ye' is actually pronounced as 'The' because the original spelling is 'e'.

    So in some cases the pronounciation changed according to the printed spelling (thou -> you) and in some cases the printed spelling changed according to the pronounciation (e -> the).

  13. #33
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    I thought what you post not really off topic. Very interesting how languages will evolved, main thing is language is for people to communicate, you understand I understand can already.

    Off topic

    Remember the american singer Prince (purple rain) used a sign as his name, in the end people has to refer to him as the "artiste previously known as prince". Now I think he change name to something else.

    How this is related

    That's the ang mo, freedom to do whatever they want, then force people to accept it as norm, what to do they are big and we like to use their standard so follow them loh its their language, what right (freedom) do we have to fight it? Contradicting? Blur man.
    Last edited by pcwe68; 23rd August 2003 at 02:00 AM.

  14. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by pcwe68
    I thought what you post not really off topic. Very interesting how languages will evolved, main thing is language is for people to communicate, you understand I understand can already.
    I agree with you that the point of a language is to allow people to communicate. That is why a language has standard grammar and spelling so that everyone can understand each other. For example, when I came to Singapore, I could not understand many sentences in Singlish because even though the words are in english, the grammar is is sometimes based on mandarin or hokkien and only the words are changed leaving the grammar as it is.

    This problem is not restricted to Singapore. For example, in english you will say 'Are you going there'. With a sentence that means the same, if you translate word by word from Tamil or Hindi, it will translate as 'You there going?' which does not make any sense in english. Similarly when they want to say 'A short while ago', Indians will sometimes say 'Before some time' which actually means something totally different in english. So unless you are familiar with this usage, it does not make any sense. And of course, foreigners are not familiar with these details.

    In almost all places where english is not the first language, the way it is spoken is heavily influenced by the local language. The english spoken in South India is different from the english spoken in North India because of the way the local language influences english. Word by word translations without changing the grammar happens all the time, all over the world.

    But it is generally not encouraged because it makes it difficult to communicate with foreigners who are not familiar with the local language.

    Quote Originally Posted by pcwe68
    Americano vs queen english again, so Singlish also can lah. if we have a population of 1 billion people we can then make singlish the official language then we can spell it anyway we want loh.
    Hmm, not a good idea. Then apart from Singaporeans, no one else will be able to understand you

    Quote Originally Posted by pcwe68
    That's the ang mo, freedom to do whatever they want, then force people to accept it as norm, what to do they are big and we like to use their standard so follow them loh its their language, what right (freedom) do we have to fight it? Contradicting? Blur man.
    No lor, thats is not correct. Depending on popular usage vocabulary, spellings and grammar evolve. There are many words in english that are not english words, but they are used so often by speakers in different parts of the world that it is accepted as part of the language. For example latte, bazaar, guru, bourgeois, etc are all 'imported' words which are used in english. If it becomes popular then it will automatically become a part of the language usage. There is no need to fight anyone or anything.

    Finally, another off topic story . The word postpone means to change the date to a later time. It makes sense that the word prepone will mean to change the date to an earlier time. But for some reason, there is no word in english called prepone, and there is no word which means a similar thing. However, in India, everyone uses the word prepone when they want to move the date to an earlier time. In the whole world, you will see this word used only in India. As long as you only plan to talk to Indians for the rest of your life, you can use this word as much as you want. But if you send an email to a foreigner that you are going to prepone the meeting, then prepare to have the person not turn up for the meeting while he is searching the dictionary trying to find out what you meant This word is used so often in India, and it sounds so much like a proper english word, that untill recently I always thought that it was a part of the english language. The good news is that I found out before causing any major damage. So now I am very careful when using the word, because the other person may not have even heard of it before.

    So the point of all this is that it is alright to use Singlish if you only wish to talk to people who are Singaporean or who have been living in Singapore for a long time. But otherwise, it is important to be able to communicate properly with non-Singaporeans, for which correct spelling and grammar is important.

  15. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Siddhi
    So the point of all this is that it is alright to use Singlish if you only wish to talk to people who are Singaporean or who have been living in Singapore for a long time. But otherwise, it is important to be able to communicate properly with non-Singaporeans, for which correct spelling and grammar is important.
    On the other hand, Singapore is a metropolitan city. Might be better to adapt to whoever you're talking to. For instance, with Indian patients, I noticed that "pain" is usually in the continuous tense, so instead of asking "is it painful", I will ask "is it paining?", because that's usually the way they communicate it to me.

    Another instance is that for Bangladeshi patients, severe pain and mild pain are usually described as "many many pain" and "something something pain" respectively. Literal translation from the mother tongue, I suppose.

    It depends very much on the language you THINK in. If you think in English, it will come out in correct English. If you think in some other language, it will come out as a literal translation, of which numerous hilarious examples abound on the internet.

    My English has always been the British type, and I've always thought Americans butchered the language. But since they are getting away with it anyway, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em.
    Last edited by StreetShooter; 23rd August 2003 at 10:04 AM.

  16. #36
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    Siddhi, you have very interesting story indeed, full of insights to the language. Are you a language teacher? Some of the things I had posted were just meant to be taken lightly, eg about american vs british, singlish etc.

    BTW, do you know how does a word get accepted, you mentioned frequent usage (eg foreign words), how frequent must it be and is there also a length of time? Definitely a lot of IT bigwigs are coming out with new terms (although usually related to IT industry) that gets immediate adoption by everyone in the industry.

    Prepone? why not?
    Last edited by pcwe68; 23rd August 2003 at 10:43 AM.

  17. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by pcwe68
    Siddhi, you have very interesting story indeed, full of insights to the language. Are you a language teacher? Some of the things I had posted were just meant to be taken lightly, eg about american vs british, singlish etc.
    I'm not a language teacher, but I am interested in languages and read a little bit on the Internet. If you are interested there are lots of interesting websites.

    BTW, do you know how does a word get accepted, you mentioned frequent usage (eg foreign words), how frequent must it be and is there also a length of time? Definitely a lot of IT bigwigs are coming out with new terms (although usually related to IT industry) that gets immediate adoption by everyone in the industry.

    Prepone? why not?
    Usually it is considered accepted when the word starts appearing in the major dictionaries (usually oxford and Merriam-Webster are considered. Oxford is more conservative, and M-W is slightly more permissive).

    It usually takes about 10-15 years of mainstream usage before it is incorporated into a dictionary. But some words take longer, about 30-40 years. The new terms coined on a daily basis rarely get into the dictionary because they fall out of fashion after only a few years. So for example, e-commerce is not considered as a part of the language, even though it is used so much because it is only around 8-9 years old, but e-mail is part of the language, because it is almost 20 years old and also in mainstream usage.

  18. #38
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    So let's get started on "prepone". But its going to be tough, people tend to postpone schedules rather than prepone (bring it forward - did I use it correctly ).

    Thanks for your reply.

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