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Thread: Need ur attention

  1. #181
    Moderator ortega's Avatar
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    Default Re: Need ur attention

    kaypo mode on

    all screenshots should be consolidated and made available to the affected photographers

    kaypo mode off

  2. #182
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    Default Re: Need ur attention

    kaypoh mode ON


    This reminds me of a 'story' ... there was once a kid who claimed he shot the cockpit and other aerial photos...and some of us went ...."wa..nice shots" ...only to realise the shots were never his

    young or not young... immaterial... go get him

    kaypoh mode OFF

  3. #183

    Default Re: Need ur attention

    Quote Originally Posted by Dream Merchant View Post
    There is a saying I recall ...

    Rule with an iron fist ... in a velvet glove.

    Bear in mind that talk is cheap; even the lowest of lowlifes will spew all sorts of exonerating circumstances and reasons, as well as beg for mercy and promise victim, authorities, parents and the heavens and earth and hell to never to do it again.

    Sit in the gallery of the sub courts and this is all you will ever hear from morning till the court closes for the day. It's like a broken record.

    What I do see as factual is that the (alleged) prep has:

    1) first stolen,
    2) used the stolen material to deceive others in the hope of monetary gains,
    3) was discovered,
    4) attempted to placate by apologising profusely,
    5) further added to the deception by providing false information by means of IC number in the hope that it would give the impression of forthrightness and honesty, which clearly wasn't the case.

    These are probably the only facts that are clear in the entire episode and the series of occurances seem to hint at a certain pattern.

    Whether he is or is not in a position to pay is irrelevant to the crimes, and being (allegedly) 18 years of age, if that is even true, does not relinquish responsibility or accountability.

    I do not think a young man's future, IF he is 18 years of age should be burdened by a criminal record, but neither do I think that such a clear pattern of further deliberate deception should go unpunished in equal measure, and it is this further action which may actually be more insidious than the original crime.

    A truly remorseful man does not try to right his wrong by lying even more.
    Sheesh...I totally agree with you (were you in debates?!)! In any society, strict enforcement of laws is essential in maintaining order and creating deterrence against crime. By letting him off without any forms of prosecution, we are encouraging such acts to happen again and future offenders will simply get away by apologizing after the damage is done. Hence, we should really look into this matter and let it serve as a lesson against the offender and those who might follow his footsteps in the future.

  4. #184

    Default Re: Need ur attention

    First, ascertain his true identity. If he lied about his name too, then it just comes to show how insincere he is in resolving the matter. IMO judge the man's character before deciding on the punishment, I mean, the severity of it, not whether there should or should not be one. Honest mistakes do happen, or in this case, honest stupidity. At the very minimum, if it will appease the angry mob, ruffle his feathers, as what he did to many of the photographers here, and move on.

    Second chances do come by, but only to the deserving.

  5. #185

    Default Re: Need ur attention

    I agree to some extend that the wrong must not go unpunished. Those at the sub courts who cried and beg for leniency ought to be punished. They were mainly belongs to groups like didn't pay tax, bill, fines licenses etc. They were given enough reminders and they chose to ignore it, so they deserve it.

    In this case, I think we can be more lenient to this boy, this is all I ask for you.

  6. #186
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    Default Re: Need ur attention

    everyone should deserve a second chance . provided the person is sincere in admitting the wrong doing or inconvience he has caused. Only the deserving should have a second chance to start life again .
    Last edited by generalsales; 5th August 2008 at 09:21 AM.

  7. #187
    Moderator ortega's Avatar
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    Default Re: Need ur attention

    for a person to "deserve a 2nd chance" he/she must first be truly sorry for the wrong that was done.
    realise his/her mistake
    and be truthful about everything

    my advice to joe is to come clean and put everything on the slate
    so that it can be wipe clean
    any more deceit would make it difficult


    but this is solely up to the affected photographers
    Last edited by ortega; 5th August 2008 at 09:27 AM.

  8. #188
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    Default Re: Need ur attention

    well said . i agreed . joe it best to come clean to the photographers that u have cause damage . dont hide anything u are still young still have far ahead . it best to learn the hard way now. or else really no one can really help u or give u a second chance

    Quote Originally Posted by ortega View Post
    for a person to "deserve a 2nd chance" he/she must first be truly sorry for the wrong that was done.
    realise his/her mistake
    and be truthful about everything

    my advice to joe is to come clean and put everything on the slate
    so that it can be wipe clean


    but this is solely up to the affected photographers

  9. #189

    Default Re: Need ur attention

    Quote Originally Posted by generalsales View Post
    well said . i agreed . joe it best to come clean to the photographers that u have cause damage . dont hide anything u are still young still have far ahead . it best to learn the hard way now. or else really no one can really help u or give u a second chance
    What if "JOE" decide to leave this country for good and ignore everyone here. If today I walk into 7/11 and take some Mag. out and get caught, no damage done to anyone, except lost of income of say $10 to 7/11. Will I be given a second chance by the police? In Joe's case, he is like walking into 10-20 7/11 and take out mags. from them without paying....and get caught. Should he be given a second chance?

  10. #190

    Default Re: Need ur attention

    Let us say no more "IFs"...... I believe David has Joe's contact number and agree to meet the affected photographers. So why not let us see whether Joe is sincerely enough to meet them and apologise to them.

    Joe, this is your last chance and I hope you treasure it. Meet them like a man, face the music and swallow your pride. You had indeed done something wrong and you are willing to admit and apologise.

    I guess I had kapo enough, my model is coming so good luck to all and please be merciful, remember this: Human first, Photographer second.......

  11. #191
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    Default Re: Need ur attention

    Quote Originally Posted by ortega View Post
    for a person to "deserve a 2nd chance" he/she must first be truly sorry for the wrong that was done.
    realise his/her mistake
    and be truthful about everything

    my advice to joe is to come clean and put everything on the slate
    so that it can be wipe clean
    any more deceit would make it difficult


    but this is solely up to the affected photographers
    Well-said. Coming clean and accepting punishment is the first step of remorse.....
    All deceit should stop and instead of bargaining, work out a plan with the offended photographers.

    But about giving chances, how to balance between not destroying a truely remorseful person's life and giving a deterrent precedence? I believe earning money from this incident is not the topmost priority on the affected photographers' minds. Setting a proper precedent and ensuring that there is no repeats of such incidences (whether from the same person or anyone intending to do so) is a top priority. If a upcoming guy/gal wishes to pull off the same trick, he/she will think again when there is a precedent of successful deterrent action taken.

    I will suggest monetary penalties (though preferably not punitive) and public apology on media or similiar, just like those cases of copyright/trademark infringements.

    Just my thoughts....
    G

  12. #192
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    Default Re: Need ur attention

    Can i ask, how far can the punishment get since there are so many replies saying not to ruin such a young life's future etc?

    let's not talk about what the offended photogs will want to do. But in sg law context, what is it actually?

  13. #193
    Moderator ortega's Avatar
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    Default Re: Need ur attention

    Quote Originally Posted by ortega View Post
    kaypo mode on

    all screenshots should be consolidated and made available to the affected photographers

    kaypo mode off
    ok i kaypo again

    as above the affected photographers need all the screen shots of the multiply site b4 it was taken down.

    please email screenshots to this address

    exposedright@gmail.com subject "screenshots"

    affected photographers, i can forward the screenshots to you via email
    so send an email to this email address as well

    exposedright@gmail.com subject "affected"
    Last edited by ortega; 5th August 2008 at 11:33 AM.

  14. #194
    Moderator ortega's Avatar
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    Default Re: Need ur attention

    Quote Originally Posted by drumma View Post
    Can i ask, how far can the punishment get since there are so many replies saying not to ruin such a young life's future etc?

    let's not talk about what the offended photogs will want to do. But in sg law context, what is it actually?
    it can either be settled out of court or reported and settled in court
    let the law decide

    no lynch mob allowed

  15. #195

    Default Re: Need ur attention

    Quote Originally Posted by drumma View Post
    Can i ask, how far can the punishment get since there are so many replies saying not to ruin such a young life's future etc?

    let's not talk about what the offended photogs will want to do. But in sg law context, what is it actually?
    A school in Singapore was fine $15K for using 3 photos as their school banners on their website without permission. And that is for non-profit purpose. Not sure in this case where is it for profit, and also he used so many......$200-$300K? 80% goes to lawyer fees actually.

  16. #196
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    Default Re: Need ur attention

    Quote Originally Posted by lightning View Post
    A school in Singapore was fine $15K for using 3 photos as their school banners on their website without permission. And that is for non-profit purpose. Not sure in this case where is it for profit, and also he used so many......$200-$300K? 80% goes to lawyer fees actually.
    erm.. folks, before we speculate any further regarding legal actions or wat nots (including 'legal' advice), i suggest those affect to contact fotoudavid and reflection who are organising a concerted effort on this case.

    kindly refer a couple of pages back for their contact. those who need to check if your pics were ripped, please contact our mod ortega for the screen capture.
    If Life worked on auto mode then manual mode for photography would have never existed. ― Deeksha Mittal

  17. #197

    Default Re: Need ur attention

    Hi,

    I was too busy the last few days to actually keep track of the developments of this entire incident.For those reading this,i am one of the photographers affected by this whole thing. I did not get the chance to view the multiply site that is the question of debate but I was infd that some of my images were inside.

    I have read the posts by the various members of ClubSnap. While the majority are in favour of seeing some form of punishment for this 'Joe' fella, there are still some who feel that we should be giving him a second chance.

    Personally,if you want me to be honest,I am unhappy that Joe had taken my pictures without my permission and had used them to try and gain some returns for himself.It is wrong of him to do so and I am sure that all of you feel the same way too.

    But if you want me to be practical and see this whole issue from a humanatarian point of view,I think he deserve a second chance.

    Why I am saying this is because for one simple fact.I am a Police Officer and I see these kind of cases most of the time.This 'Joe' has personally sent me a message,offering his apologies.He has also apologised for his mistakes in this forum.I do not know and I cannot tell whether the person who sent me the message is the real culprit behind all these but what I do know is that,this person has the bravery and the heart to admit that it is his fault.Not many criminals will do that.He can choose to remain silent and just disappear,knowing fully well that it will be almost impossible to track him.He had also taken the step to bring down his multiply immediately when the incident broke out.

    I am sure that as professional photographers,all of you had encountered the experience of having your images stolen and being used by other individuals.But did the culprit own up?This is not the first such case to happen but here we have,an 18 yr old guy who is admitting to his mistakes.

    In my scope of work,such offenders will be pardoned and warned for their mistakes and I see with all the criticisms,threats and frustrations aimed at him,I can't help but feel that the punishment is more than enough.

    I will give him the benefit of the doubt and I choose to accept his apology. I have given him my contact number and told him to call me if he wants to apologise to me personally over the phone.

    I am currently training for my National Day Parade and I won't be able to join for the meetup organised by Fotoudavid. I have told my mentor,Le Photographe,about it.

    Like the saying in this forum says,humans first n photographers second..I second that and I hope that you all will share my sentiments.
    EOS 5D . 10-22 . 24-70 . 70-200 f4 IS USM . 580EX II

  18. #198

    Default Re: Need ur attention

    I have a dumb question regarding IP - What if the photos are processed by pirated softwares, example: pirated photoshop, lightroom, etc - can the photographer still claim their rights since they stole IP form adobe?

  19. #199

    Default Re: Need ur attention

    I think the majority of the photographers involved in this case uses original photo editing softwares. Looking at their conviction to drive out IP thieves, I have no doubt in my mind this is the case.

  20. #200

    Default Re: Need ur attention

    Quote Originally Posted by lancey View Post
    I think the majority of the photographers involved in this case uses original photo editing softwares. Looking at their conviction to drive out IP thieves, I have no doubt in my mind this is the case.
    Neither do I. But I am asking the legal aspect of such incident.

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