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Thread: Any of your photos on this site?

  1. #21
    Member kirk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Any of your photos on this site?

    I'm too busy with work and shoots to check on CS regularly. This time I was informed again to check this thread. By one of my clients leh....

    Whoa... this thread from so long ago, almost 2 months, also got dugged up. I had thought the matter was closed. She had apologied and promised not to use any more of the photos that I had done for the models. Back then I was informed by one of clients that some of my models have their pictures on the website so I went and checked. Ya... get informed by the same client 2 times about this.

    Found the pictures and pictures taken by other photographers too. Forums are places to share things of interest and for discussion. Since CS is THE place for photographers in Singapore and copyright is a serious matter, I thought it would be best for every photographer in Singapore to know. 1 Aug 08 was the day I was informed about the photos and also the day I informed Fiona.

    Youhong is right to protect his copyright and so has every other photographer. It was stemming from his first contact with me that we decided to totally redo the compcards for the local models to incorporate only our own commissioned photos. For those agencies without a photographer, they can choose to engage a photographer and pay him/her so they are allowed to use the photos. Model agencies are commerical entities and earn money from extracting commissions from jobs that the models do. Photos go into the compcards and the models use the compcards to get chosen for jobs. Everyone in this supply chain earns from any commercial transaction that is carried out. Likewise, photographers who provide photos for model agencies are also paid or enjoy some other benefits from the linkage to an agency. It's already a tough industry for photographers to compete and model agencies are another source of income for photographers. It's a much better arrangement and the photographer gets to earn from doing shoots, instead of asking photographers for free photos from events and shoots. For us, I'm doing the shoots myself and the makeup artistes attached to us get a constant flow of jobs as well from our shoots. Everyone's happy. Of course, if any kind photographer is willing to let us use photos for free, we acknowledge them on the compcard with their name.

    We have another arrangement for models based in other countries that we represent on direct bookings though but best not to touch on that here.

    I believe Fiona has my number and can contact me anytime she wishes. My number is stated in the exchange of emails previously. She was the one who called me up after I contacted her. I did what I had to do and got her to remove the photos in order to protect my copyright. Can't possibly let other agencies enjoy the fruits of our labour for free. Any photographer who did full shoots carrying all equipment, clothes and settling logistics will realise what I am talking about. We also paid for the makeup. Its real hard work, we forked out money and sweat, and we are not going to let other agencies use the photos for free.

    Share information with fellow photographers can also get hit From our point of view, she apologised, removed the photos and promised not to use our photos. Hence I consider this matter as closed. Anyone is free to use our experiences as a case study though. Youhong uses it many times. Hehe

  2. #22

    Thumbs down Re: Any of your photos on this site?

    Hi,

    I have found my photos on a public web host with the name "Fiona's Models Talents and Events Management's Gallery". Please refer to the link below.

    http://picasaweb.google.com/FionaLeeSS?showall=true#100


    To my horror I found many of my photos used, even the watermark has been crudely erased.

    http://picasaweb.google.com/FionaLee...67637218112658

    The photo has been commission by my client and no agreement has been made to distribute to other agencies such as yours. The original photo can be found here: http://www.eleganz.sg/detail.asp?ID=62&tid=1

    It reflect badly on the company "Fiona's Models Talents and Events Management". We kindly request you to take immediate action on all photos belong to us to be removed.

    Other photographers, please note the website above.
    Last edited by afiend; 27th September 2008 at 04:05 PM.

  3. #23

    Default Re: Any of your photos on this site?

    Quote Originally Posted by kirk View Post
    I'm too busy with work and shoots to check on CS regularly. This time I was informed again to check this thread. By one of my clients leh....

    Whoa... this thread from so long ago, almost 2 months, also got dugged up. I had thought the matter was closed. She had apologied and promised not to use any more of the photos that I had done for the models. Back then I was informed by one of clients that some of my models have their pictures on the website so I went and checked. Ya... get informed by the same client 2 times about this.

    Found the pictures and pictures taken by other photographers too. Forums are places to share things of interest and for discussion. Since CS is THE place for photographers in Singapore and copyright is a serious matter, I thought it would be best for every photographer in Singapore to know. 1 Aug 08 was the day I was informed about the photos and also the day I informed Fiona.

    Youhong is right to protect his copyright and so has every other photographer. It was stemming from his first contact with me that we decided to totally redo the compcards for the local models to incorporate only our own commissioned photos. For those agencies without a photographer, they can choose to engage a photographer and pay him/her so they are allowed to use the photos. Model agencies are commerical entities and earn money from extracting commissions from jobs that the models do. Photos go into the compcards and the models use the compcards to get chosen for jobs. Everyone in this supply chain earns from any commercial transaction that is carried out. Likewise, photographers who provide photos for model agencies are also paid or enjoy some other benefits from the linkage to an agency. It's already a tough industry for photographers to compete and model agencies are another source of income for photographers. It's a much better arrangement and the photographer gets to earn from doing shoots, instead of asking photographers for free photos from events and shoots. For us, I'm doing the shoots myself and the makeup artistes attached to us get a constant flow of jobs as well from our shoots. Everyone's happy. Of course, if any kind photographer is willing to let us use photos for free, we acknowledge them on the compcard with their name.

    We have another arrangement for models based in other countries that we represent on direct bookings though but best not to touch on that here.

    I believe Fiona has my number and can contact me anytime she wishes. My number is stated in the exchange of emails previously. She was the one who called me up after I contacted her. I did what I had to do and got her to remove the photos in order to protect my copyright. Can't possibly let other agencies enjoy the fruits of our labour for free. Any photographer who did full shoots carrying all equipment, clothes and settling logistics will realise what I am talking about. We also paid for the makeup. Its real hard work, we forked out money and sweat, and we are not going to let other agencies use the photos for free.

    Share information with fellow photographers can also get hit From our point of view, she apologised, removed the photos and promised not to use our photos. Hence I consider this matter as closed. Anyone is free to use our experiences as a case study though. Youhong uses it many times. Hehe
    Sorry, I didn't meant to dig up this old thread because I didn't pay attention to the date posted. But no harm bumping up to alert other photographers to do a check in case their images have been used, and we can already see more responds coming in from photographers with regards to the copyright infringement.

    Kirk, I believe you can now understand why I am so email was so aggressive then, after your images are being used the same way by another management for commercial uses.

    One thing I hope Fiona.com.sg can learn from Perspective Models, at least, is to improve on your customers relationship, response to complains and your attitude.
    I am NOT a PROfessional photographer and photography is NOT my hobby

  4. #24

    Default Re: Any of your photos on this site?

    Quote Originally Posted by afiend View Post
    Hi,

    I have found my photos on a public web host with the name "Fiona's Models Talents and Events Management's Gallery". Please refer to the link below.

    http://picasaweb.google.com/FionaLeeSS?showall=true#100


    To my horror I found many of my photos used, even the watermark has been crudely erased.

    http://picasaweb.google.com/FionaLee...67637218112658

    The photo has been commission by my client and no agreement has been made to distribute to other agencies such as yours. The original photo can be found here: http://www.eleganz.sg/detail.asp?ID=62&tid=1

    It reflect badly on the company "Fiona's Models Talents and Events Management". We kindly request you to take immediate action on all photos belong to us to be removed.

    Other photographers, please note the website above.
    Thanks for the link. I did not realise that Fiona.com.sg do have a secondary image hosting website.
    I am NOT a PROfessional photographer and photography is NOT my hobby

  5. #25

    Default Re: Any of your photos on this site?

    Quote Originally Posted by jOhO View Post
    FMTEM, please take note of CS guideline #1

    1. Be Nice and Be Civilised - abusing, name-calling, personal attacks on members and/or generally trying to stir up trouble will not be tolerated. Be kind to newbies as they may not know the general flow of the forums. Repeatedly violation of this rule will result in banishment.

    i've been watching your posts here and in other threads, your passion for "meeting up over coffee" is a little too passionate, if you know what I mean.

    Thank you for your kind attention.

    be nice and civilised? abusing, name calling, personal attacks, stirring up trouble, be kind to newbies???????????

    haha, i am the newbie here, all i did was ask for premission to save some photos, and invite photographers for photo shoots. someone else started a non related post.

    you know what moderator, kick me out from here. you are no different from these few people then. read through the whole thing properly, see what i posted first, what was posted about me.

    please banned me now.

  6. #26

    Default Re: Any of your photos on this site?

    Quote Originally Posted by afiend View Post
    Hi,

    I have found my photos on a public web host with the name "Fiona's Models Talents and Events Management's Gallery". Please refer to the link below.

    http://picasaweb.google.com/FionaLeeSS?showall=true#100


    To my horror I found many of my photos used, even the watermark has been crudely erased.

    http://picasaweb.google.com/FionaLee...67637218112658

    The photo has been commission by my client and no agreement has been made to distribute to other agencies such as yours. The original photo can be found here: http://www.eleganz.sg/detail.asp?ID=62&tid=1

    It reflect badly on the company "Fiona's Models Talents and Events Management". We kindly request you to take immediate action on all photos belong to us to be removed.

    Other photographers, please note the website above.

    i do not know how to remove water marks, if i know how to, wouldn't i have removed all the water marks?
    haha.......this is just too ridiculous.
    i'm not gonna explain anymore, cos some of you just don't get it.
    all photos has been removed.
    Last edited by FMTEM; 28th September 2008 at 01:07 AM.

  7. #27
    Member Parka's Avatar
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    Default Re: Any of your photos on this site?

    Quote Originally Posted by FMTEM View Post
    bro, u don't know thw way they email me, like i have commited some big sin.

    i already apologised, and i have explained, and i have removed the photos. and to this day, i am still reminding all models not to send me copyrighted photos.

    issues solved, but they are creating a storm when there is no wind. how not to get work up.

    and for other photographers, except these few, have no issues. cos once they alert me that the photos belong to them, i did the same, explain, apologise, and remove the photos. and me and the photographers became friends. so i don't understand why some people are simply 'different' from the rest of us normal people.
    You have to understand that there will always be people who will take things too seriously. What you did is copyright infringement, you're lucky if it's just verbal warning.

    Next time just put a disclaimer on your website telling people that you have made effort to spot the infringing photos, but will take down if asked.

  8. #28

    Default Re: Any of your photos on this site?

    Quote Originally Posted by Youhong View Post
    Sorry, I didn't meant to dig up this old thread because I didn't pay attention to the date posted. But no harm bumping up to alert other photographers to do a check in case their images have been used, and we can already see more responds coming in from photographers with regards to the copyright infringement.

    Kirk, I believe you can now understand why I am so email was so aggressive then, after your images are being used the same way by another management for commercial uses.

    One thing I hope Fiona.com.sg can learn from Perspective Models, at least, is to improve on your customers relationship, response to complains and your attitude.

    alvin, you knew yourself and god knows how you email me.
    i apologised, explained and remove the photos.
    its you, who should reflect on your attitude and your human relationships.
    i have great clients and models, who love working with me.
    so i don't think i'm the on who has an attitude problem.

    so the few of you, go on and on about this if you like.
    i have removed all photos.
    i really don't have time for this, business is too good.

    and i'm not gonna explain again.

    PS: and alvin, why didn't you mention that your friend jeremy called me, and we ended up talking properly and being friends, and he even came down to see my photo shoot. why didn't you mention this? all you do is kept digging and digging and digging on issues that have been solved, explanations done, apologies made, photos removed, but still you wanna dig.
    Last edited by FMTEM; 28th September 2008 at 01:05 AM.

  9. #29

    Default Re: Any of your photos on this site?

    Quote Originally Posted by Parka View Post
    You have to understand that there will always be people who will take things too seriously. What you did is copyright infringement, you're lucky if it's just verbal warning.

    Next time just put a disclaimer on your website telling people that you have made effort to spot the infringing photos, but will take down if asked.
    i'm not explaining again.
    anyway all photos have been removed.
    got enough of this crap and refusal to accept apologies, explanations..
    website under reconstruction now.
    i will be doing what exactly you are saying now.

    sorry, i need to add, i have already explained that i made the effort and already took down the photos when asked. so tell me, what else is the problem now, since i already did what they asked with an apology.

    and if its you who get a rude email, would you reply politely?

    thank you.
    Last edited by FMTEM; 28th September 2008 at 01:32 AM.

  10. #30

    Default Re: Any of your photos on this site?

    i don't know how to cancel the whole damn picassa album.
    SO TO ALL THESE FEW PEOPLE, GIVE ME TIME TO FIND OUT, OR I HAVE TO DELETED THE ALBUM ONE BY ONE, BECAUSE I REPEATE AGAIN, I DO NOT KNOW WHICH PHOTOS ARE COPY RIGHTED.

  11. #31

    Default Re: Any of your photos on this site?

    Quote Originally Posted by FMTEM View Post
    I DO NOT KNOW WHICH PHOTOS ARE COPY RIGHTED.
    It would be a safe move to delete all the albumn if in doubt ... Upload the photos once you have the re-done by your commissioned photographer. In that way you are sure all the photos will belong to you ... and you can also assure some kind of quality to the picture on your model's portfolio.

    At this moment .... sad to say ... your portfolio for all the models look quite unprofessional ... in very layman terms ... rojak ... because they come from all over the place and from different photographers ... with some even from handphone photo. It really does not potray the look of a professional agency ...

    Just my 2 cents ... no need to get upset if you feel it is too harsh ...

  12. #32

    Post Re: Any of your photos on this site?

    I shall only post my responds here (copy and pasted from my sentbox).

    Additional texts and comments in orange.

    First email sent on 27 Aug 2008 (1:43 AM)
    To Fiona.com.sg

    It has come to my attention that your website have reproduced several images copyrighted to me. I did not grant your website any licence to use any of my pictures. Your actions have hence infringed my copyright. In addition, you have added your own watermark onto the images which I did not grant any permission on.

    The following are the images that you have used without my authorisation.
    - http://www.fiona.com.sg/images/femal.../Danielle3.jpg
    - http://www.fiona.com.sg/images/femal.../Danielle7.jpg
    - http://www.fiona.com.sg/images/femal.../Danielle8.jpg
    - http://www.fiona.com.sg/images/femal.../ZhenZhen5.jpg
    - http://www.fiona.com.sg/images/femal.../ZhenZhen7.jpg
    - http://www.fiona.com.sg/images/femal.../ZhenZhen9.jpg

    I have also noticed some other fellow photographers' and friends' images were used as well. I'll be informing them about this case to allow them to be aware of this incident and whether they did grant your website the licence to use the images they took.

    AlvinZ
    Second email sent on 27 Aug 2008 (16: 02PM)
    To fiona.com.sg

    This is not my first time seeing a modeling agency using my images without my consent. I do inform the models/talents that the images are for their own personal uses and not for any third parties such as modeling agencies to use.

    Not knowing that the images are copyrighted are non-excusable, especially when the images have the photographers' watermark. As a professional, you should have expected that the images are copyright and not assumed that they are not and done checks to verify. Some models may ill-informed or not educated in the Copyright policies, however as a management/company, that's non-excusable.

    I shall wait for the response of my fellow photographers friends before I determine my next course of action. <-- This is the only comment I would admit to be aggressive

    AlvinZ
    Third email sent on 8 Sept 2008 (13: 11PM)
    Good afternoon,

    It has been at least a week (<-- Take note of the time) since the last email and I still see the following images in your website.
    - http://www.fiona.com.sg/images/femal.../ZhenZhen5.jpg
    - http://www.fiona.com.sg/images/femal.../ZhenZhen7.jpg
    - http://www.fiona.com.sg/images/femal.../ZhenZhen9.jpg

    Please contact your webmaster and remind him/her to remove the images.
    I am NOT a PROfessional photographer and photography is NOT my hobby

  13. #33
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    Default Re: Any of your photos on this site?

    Quote Originally Posted by FMTEM View Post
    be nice and civilised? abusing, name calling, personal attacks, stirring up trouble, be kind to newbies???????????

    haha, i am the newbie here, all i did was ask for premission to save some photos, and invite photographers for photo shoots. someone else started a non related post.

    you know what moderator, kick me out from here. you are no different from these few people then. read through the whole thing properly, see what i posted first, what was posted about me.

    please banned me now.
    to be honest, you're lucky enough not to get an infraction from jOhO, so don't push your luck.
    others mods will not be so nice to remind you again, since i also have an infraction some time ago...
    if you're so unhappy about some of the photographers here then you can always deregister yourself and perhaps save yourself the trouble of explaining tirelessly instead of asking the mod to play the bad guy.
    everyone here has a reputation to keep, but your last sentence is especially damaging to your own image upon this forum.
    Last edited by Simon_84; 28th September 2008 at 02:47 AM.

  14. #34
    Member kirk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Any of your photos on this site?

    Fiona,

    This is the second time I see this photo being used by you.
    http://picasaweb.google.com/FionaLee...37394910634690
    It is the same photo that I asked you to remove from your website. This time it appears on your picasa album. Please remove this photo immediately. I did tell you not to use the photo again and you had assure me that it will not be used. Please abide by your promises.

    I also see other photos taken by me.
    http://picasaweb.google.com/FionaLee...27262237167698
    http://picasaweb.google.com/FionaLee...27346736409714
    http://picasaweb.google.com/FionaLee...27399597197074
    http://picasaweb.google.com/FionaLee...59699193972674
    http://picasaweb.google.com/FionaLee...80629541629506

    Kindly remove these by Monday 29 Sep 2359hrs. Thank you.

    I'll suggest a simple checklist to run through if you do not know which photos are copyrighted. Lets put it simply as if you are not the one who took the photos or you did not commission any photographer to take the photo or the photographer did not give you permission to use the photo, then you do not own the copyrights and do not have the rights to use the photo.

  15. #35

    Default Re: Any of your photos on this site?

    Quote Originally Posted by Long Thai Bean View Post
    It would be a safe move to delete all the albumn if in doubt ... Upload the photos once you have the re-done by your commissioned photographer. In that way you are sure all the photos will belong to you ... and you can also assure some kind of quality to the picture on your model's portfolio.

    At this moment .... sad to say ... your portfolio for all the models look quite unprofessional ... in very layman terms ... rojak ... because they come from all over the place and from different photographers ... with some even from handphone photo. It really does not potray the look of a professional agency ...

    Just my 2 cents ... no need to get upset if you feel it is too harsh ...
    nah, you are not harsh, compare to the kind of emails i got from some people.

    anyway, i am planning to do what you are sayingm before i saw you post.

    but i need to let u all know, some clients prefer the orginal non professional photos, than the make over professional photos, cos they will know how the models look exactly before make over.

    rojak or not, i still got many jobs and projects and repeated clients, cos my service is good, and my rates are reasonable and models work well with me, so to me, thats the most important. and to gte new photo shoots for all these 100 over models will take more 1 year to complete.

    but thanks anyway.

  16. #36

    Default Re: Any of your photos on this site?

    Quote Originally Posted by kirk View Post
    Fiona,

    This is the second time I see this photo being used by you.
    http://picasaweb.google.com/FionaLee...37394910634690
    It is the same photo that I asked you to remove from your website. This time it appears on your picasa album. Please remove this photo immediately. I did tell you not to use the photo again and you had assure me that it will not be used. Please abide by your promises.

    I also see other photos taken by me.
    http://picasaweb.google.com/FionaLee...27262237167698
    http://picasaweb.google.com/FionaLee...27346736409714
    http://picasaweb.google.com/FionaLee...27399597197074
    http://picasaweb.google.com/FionaLee...59699193972674
    http://picasaweb.google.com/FionaLee...80629541629506

    Kindly remove these by Monday 29 Sep 2359hrs. Thank you.

    I'll suggest a simple checklist to run through if you do not know which photos are copyrighted. Lets put it simply as if you are not the one who took the photos or you did not commission any photographer to take the photo or the photographer did not give you permission to use the photo, then you do not own the copyrights and do not have the rights to use the photo.
    kirk, this picassa album has been there for about 3 years plus, way before i have my website donw. i do not use it anymore cos i got my website.

    but anyway, i will remove ALL THE ALBUMS THERE.

    n i say again yah, sometimes models tell me photographers alreday gave them permission to use the photos. u get it?

    anyway, its ok, few of u just don't get it. i will remove everything there, if can i will delete that picassa account.

  17. #37

    Default Re: Any of your photos on this site?

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon_84 View Post
    to be honest, you're lucky enough not to get an infraction from jOhO, so don't push your luck.
    others mods will not be so nice to remind you again, since i also have an infraction some time ago...
    if you're so unhappy about some of the photographers here then you can always deregister yourself and perhaps save yourself the trouble of explaining tirelessly instead of asking the mod to play the bad guy.
    everyone here has a reputation to keep, but your last sentence is especially damaging to your own image upon this forum.
    is it me being unhappy about some photographers here, or is it them who are unhappy with me?

    i came in here to ask some photographers to do some photo shoots. and next was to ask to keep some of amanda's and camy's photos. that was all.

    but i got hit by some photographers for issues that were solved.

    and if the mod or other photographers who are posting their point of view without reading through or realising the whole situation, then i insist, kick me out from here, cos this is crap.

    but anyway, i have talk to joho, which happen to be an old friend of mine. so no worries there, i am explaining to him about everything.

    n as for damaging my image, it has already been done, by other people. no way i can save it already, though my purpose of coming in here was to look for photographers to do photo shoots and permission to save a few photos.
    Last edited by FMTEM; 29th September 2008 at 02:10 AM.

  18. #38

    Default Re: Any of your photos on this site?

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon_84 View Post
    to be honest, you're lucky enough not to get an infraction from jOhO, so don't push your luck.
    others mods will not be so nice to remind you again, since i also have an infraction some time ago...
    if you're so unhappy about some of the photographers here then you can always deregister yourself and perhaps save yourself the trouble of explaining tirelessly instead of asking the mod to play the bad guy.
    everyone here has a reputation to keep, but your last sentence is especially damaging to your own image upon this forum.
    oh, but u have a point, i should deregister myself, and not let the mod be the bad guy, i totally agree. thanks for reminding, sincerely.

  19. #39

    Default Re: Any of your photos on this site?

    Quote Originally Posted by Youhong View Post
    I shall only post my responds here (copy and pasted from my sentbox).

    Additional texts and comments in orange.

    First email sent on 27 Aug 2008 (1:43 AM)


    Second email sent on 27 Aug 2008 (16: 02PM)


    Third email sent on 8 Sept 2008 (13: 11PM)

    why didn't u say the part when i have alreday remove the photos u wanted me to remove?
    i did all u asked, so what else is the problem now?

    all the photos mentioned above has been removed when u asked, before i deleted ALL THE PHOTOS IN MY WEBSITE. please note this point.

  20. #40

    Default Re: Any of your photos on this site?

    Like I mentioned, I'm not attacking you mainly on the copyright infringement, but rather your aggressive response.

    Seriously, I do not understand which part of my first email seems rude which you mentioned in your sarcastic response in your first email. Enlight me.

    Post your email responses to my complaints here word for word. The emails I've sent are all here and other comments are in this forum already. Let the forumers be the judge.
    I am NOT a PROfessional photographer and photography is NOT my hobby

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