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Thread: Our rights?

  1. #21

    Default Re: Our rights?

    vince123123, honestly i admire u for your indepth knowledge on the legal systems and its finer points. My point is being, though we should stand by our rights and being aware is important, the world in a way is all connected. Sometimes, giving a little is no harm, especially in this case, most of us are, hobbist in a way and why make things difficult for everyone. If everything would have to be stated in black and white what we can n cannot do, we would behave like a computer program :P

    I am of course in no way saying tat your point of view is not right but just a little understanding for the other party. Sometimes, security personnels are being too "on the ball" and all. Of course, they can say if they don't do that, they will be reprimanded or lose their jobs. If we look a little higher up there, the reason why all these are being done, is for the sake of being safe. Kiasu behaviour in this aspect, is probably the reason why we can walk in the streets at night safely, or we can explore around back alleys without losing our cameras. We can all help to correct the public's image of photography and of course a photographer. And that all we want is to enjoy our favourite past time like some people would like to play football or golf

    Peace to all~

  2. #22

    Default Re: Our rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    Back to discussion on laws:

    One interesting thing which came up in researching the above, it seems there's a general catch all Rule 17 for nuisance:

    Passenger not to cause nuisance
    17. No person shall conduct himself on any train or in any part of the railway premises so as to cause a nuisance or annoyance to other passengers.

    Fine of S$500.

    Now we know what to do when dealing with those irritating pple who blast their mp3s on their mobile phones or PSP on the train.
    hear hear!

  3. #23
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Our rights?

    Yup, I totally understand. My aim in all these discussions is to simply provide insight/discussion on the letter of the law, ie what you can do or cannot do.

    The issue of what you should do or should not do, is left to the personal moral stand of each individual, as applied to each unique situtation. It would be more difficult to tell someone what he should or should not do as different people's moral standards are different.

    As for security personnel, there are two types. One who follows whatever his boss tells him (even when wrong), so basically he's caught in the middle in a confrontation with a photographer. When I encounter such cases, and it is clear that it is not him who wants to enforce the rule, but his boss telling him, I would then ask to speak with the boss and sort things out. In order words, tackle the policy maker, not the messenger.

    Of course if it is the over-zealous security guard at work (which sometimes happens after the manager says "no leh, no such rule"), then the guard will be the one being whacked.

    Quote Originally Posted by tan131 View Post
    vince123123, honestly i admire u for your indepth knowledge on the legal systems and its finer points. My point is being, though we should stand by our rights and being aware is important, the world in a way is all connected. Sometimes, giving a little is no harm, especially in this case, most of us are, hobbist in a way and why make things difficult for everyone. If everything would have to be stated in black and white what we can n cannot do, we would behave like a computer program :P

    I am of course in no way saying tat your point of view is not right but just a little understanding for the other party. Sometimes, security personnels are being too "on the ball" and all. Of course, they can say if they don't do that, they will be reprimanded or lose their jobs. If we look a little higher up there, the reason why all these are being done, is for the sake of being safe. Kiasu behaviour in this aspect, is probably the reason why we can walk in the streets at night safely, or we can explore around back alleys without losing our cameras. We can all help to correct the public's image of photography and of course a photographer. And that all we want is to enjoy our favourite past time like some people would like to play football or golf

    Peace to all~

  4. #24
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    Default Re: Our rights?

    hmm...interesting views you guys have here.

    But I believe in Singapore, you just need to remember one thing.

    There is no human rights policy/acts in Singapore. Therefore, do what you want but if the authority ask you to stop....just apologise and comply. Else you may find yourself getting into deep trouble. =)

  5. #25

    Default Re: Our rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by JaPhotos View Post
    hmm...interesting views you guys have here.

    But I believe in Singapore, you just need to remember one thing.

    There is no human rights policy/acts in Singapore. Therefore, do what you want but if the authority ask you to stop....just apologise and comply. Else you may find yourself getting into deep trouble. =)
    lol going by what you say, be careful with what you just said! you might end up sitting in a big pile of trouble too but what you say has some merit, especially if the security official/his boss is spiteful and decides to teach you a lesson for challenging them (whether you have legal basis or not).

  6. #26
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    Default Re: Our rights?

    erm...its true lah. I always thought that Singapore have human rights policy. But only realised recently in my work that we don't have that law here. Where as there is such law in Hong Kong.

    So technically speaking...we cannot really stand by the 'law' of taking photo in public places is ok (as it is any rights of an individual), etc etc those kind of arguments. As we technically have a our 'rights' to do what we like as long as our actions does not cause unrest, conflict with nation's safety etc etc. =)

  7. #27

    Default Re: Our rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by JaPhotos View Post
    erm...its true lah. I always thought that Singapore have human rights policy. But only realised recently in my work that we don't have that law here. Where as there is such law in Hong Kong.

    So technically speaking...we cannot really stand by the 'law' of taking photo in public places is ok (as it is any rights of an individual), etc etc those kind of arguments. As we technically have a our 'rights' to do what we like as long as our actions does not cause unrest, conflict with nation's safety etc etc. =)
    ah but you see, "actions which cause unrest and conflict with the nation's interests" is a very vague phrase which can emcompass (or is it encompass) many things. say, if you don't mind me asking, whats your line of work?

  8. #28

    Default Re: Our rights?

    Just want to share this article with the rest concerning this subject.

    http://www.schneier.com/blog/archive...r_on_phot.html

    I agree with the writer some what, real terrorists don't take photographs. Google Image/Earth any one?

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Our rights?

    My area is in Business Protection (ie. operational risk). So I have to read up on policies, law, acts, etc and ensure that my company policies requirements and the regulators requirements are all being complied. So happen got that one time there was some area covering some human rights...so my boss ask me to go find out what Singapore have. That time I thought (and was quite confident) that our country have human rights law...so I say sure have one. End up my boss find out and tell me don't have.

    paiseh.

    Ya I agree with you that its very vague...and in here, I believe we all can agree that when it is vague...it is usually up to the gov to interpret. =)

  10. #30

    Default Re: Our rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by JaPhotos View Post
    My area is in Business Protection (ie. operational risk). So I have to read up on policies, law, acts, etc and ensure that my company policies requirements and the regulators requirements are all being complied. So happen got that one time there was some area covering some human rights...so my boss ask me to go find out what Singapore have. That time I thought (and was quite confident) that our country have human rights law...so I say sure have one. End up my boss find out and tell me don't have.

    paiseh.

    Ya I agree with you that its very vague...and in here, I believe we all can agree that when it is vague...it is usually up to the gov to interpret. =)
    thats cool. shhh some things cannot be so explicitly said.

  11. #31
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    Default Re: Our rights?

    agreed. cannot say too much liao. hehe

  12. #32
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Our rights?

    The Singapore criminal legal system works by "If it is not prohibited, it is allowed". Hence, if there is no law to say "You cannot take photos of an individual on the street" it means it is okay - because if anyone takes issue, they need to frame the criminal charge with reference to a specific law.

    The civil legal system works pretty much in the same way. If you want to take action against someone, you need to show a legal basis or a legal cause of action. Just because "I feel dulan leh" is not a legal basis or legal cause of action.



    Quote Originally Posted by JaPhotos View Post
    erm...its true lah. I always thought that Singapore have human rights policy. But only realised recently in my work that we don't have that law here. Where as there is such law in Hong Kong.

    So technically speaking...we cannot really stand by the 'law' of taking photo in public places is ok (as it is any rights of an individual), etc etc those kind of arguments. As we technically have a our 'rights' to do what we like as long as our actions does not cause unrest, conflict with nation's safety etc etc. =)

  13. #33
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Our rights?

    And I don't think there's any thing wrong in saying there are no privacy laws in Singapore - that is a fact, and that has also been stated by the MHA if I remember correctly, in that same article on hp pictures on the MRT>

  14. #34
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    Default Re: Our rights?

    so simply put we have no rights whatsoever and even if we take pics of public areas and police officers demands to see or delete our pics.We have to comply or else getting our ass in hot hot water?

  15. #35
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Our rights?

    Eh, where did you get that conclusion from?

    Quote Originally Posted by Duinchlfc View Post
    so simply put we have no rights whatsoever and even if we take pics of public areas and police officers demands to see or delete our pics.We have to comply or else getting our ass in hot hot water?

  16. #36
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    Default Re: Our rights?

    gathering from the above posts and posts indicating we have no humans rights laws in place.

  17. #37
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Our rights?

    Human rights is a nebulous and vague term which encompasses many concepts. It has nothing to do with whether a policeman can search you or demand your things - if there is no law prescribing they can, they cannot.

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