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Thread: Wat wull u do if u were in my shoe.

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    Default Wat wull u do if u were in my shoe.

    hi everyone here in cs , just wana ask wat will u do if u encounter this ? ok here the story goes... a friend of mine hire me as the main photograper to cover for his out door wedding and actual day etc , so i did a plan like timing , location and wat to cover during the big day of my friend , but after shooting the outdoor and the following week is their actual day and all the sudden my friend sms me said that i dun need to cover the female side on that morning , reason given to me is they have a friend to cover that and am fine with that so i cover the male side , but during the actual day i found out that the so call friend of the female side is not their friend , it a freelance photograper hire by the female side , well am telling myself it ok maybe they wan to cover both side at the same time , but during the shoot when ever i try to take a shot that guy will just go into my picture and take all the good angle and when we both trying to shoot he will tell me to stand aside and let him do the shoot 1st ..... well i feel i was making a fool outta myself infront of some many ppl and look like an extra , so bro and sis here wat will u do if u r in my shoe ?
    Last edited by noob sniper; 26th July 2008 at 12:29 PM.
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    Default Re: Wat wull u do if u were in my shoe.

    I am tinking maybe that freelance photographer doesn`t realise u were hired by the male side coz the female side didn`t tell him there will be another photographer covering the wedding, so maybe u could explain to him in private?

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    Default Re: Wat wull u do if u were in my shoe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy81 View Post
    I am tinking maybe that freelance photographer doesn`t realise u were hired by the male side coz the female side didn`t tell him there will be another photographer covering the wedding, so maybe u could explain to him in private?
    i have already told the other photograper that am also covering this wedding and after telling him , he just walk off and keep doing the same thing .
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    Default Re: Wat wull u do if u were in my shoe.

    since they have the $$$ to hire a freelance then maybe you should tell your friend that there's no need of you to be around.
    maybe is just me but i think is best not to help relatives or friends to do photo shoot.
    just shoot whatever stuff your friend tells you and enjoy the food instead.
    the good angles can leave it up the the freelance person and tell your friend that the freelance is the main photographer instead of you.
    Last edited by Simon_84; 26th July 2008 at 01:00 PM.

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    Default Re: Wat wull u do if u were in my shoe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon_84 View Post
    since they have the $$$ to hire a freelance then maybe you should tell your friend that there's no need of you to be around.
    maybe is just me but i think is best not to help relatives or friends to do photo shoot.
    just shoot whatever stuff your friend tells you and enjoy the food instead.
    the good angles can leave it up the the freelance person and tell your friend that the freelance is the main photographer instead of you.
    i understand wat u mean , but i think u miss out 1 point am also been paid for the wedding job .
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  6. #6

    Default Re: Wat wull u do if u were in my shoe.

    Quote Originally Posted by noob sniper View Post
    a friend of mine hire me as the main photograper to cover for his out door wedding and actual day etc ,

    so i did a plan like timing , location and wat to cover during the big day of my friend , but after shooting the outdoor (the following week is their actual day) all the sudden my friend sms me said that i dun need to cover the female side on that morning, reason given to me is they have a friend to cover that. I am fine with that so i cover the male side ,

    During the actual day i found out that the so call friend of the female side is not their friend , it a freelance photograper hire by the female side.

    well am telling myself it ok maybe they wan to cover both side at the same time , but during the shoot when ever i try to take a shot that guy will just go into my picture and take all the good angle and when we both trying to shoot he will tell me to stand aside and let him do the shoot 1st .....

    well i feel i was making a fool outta myself infront of some many ppl and look like an extra , so bro and sis here wat will u do if u r in my shoe ?
    Don't mind (not making fun or looking down) but I broke up your monolith into paragraphs. Very headache to read leh.

    First question: What was in the written contract?

    Second Question: Did they try to bargain or don't pay you?

    Third Question: Were you given a chance for proper discussion/briefing?


    Legally, there's nothing wrong if the couple wants to hire another photographer, unless you have a clause in the contract that says you will be the only photographer.

    The 'friend' or 'relative' reason is one of the most used to avoid confrontation or bad feelings (normally not to offend the main contractor or party). Asians can be like that. They prefer to avoid direct confrontation. Or it could be a face saving tactic.

    Did they see the photos you took after the outdoor shoot? Perhaps they didn't like what they saw, the way you carried yourself during the outdoor shoot* for whatever reason, and since you were a friend, they didn't want to/could not fire you?

    Another possibility if when you first discussed things with them, they could have agreed to some things/style of shooting etc, then they last minute change their minds. Since they knew it would not be fair to you to insist on a change of agreements/try to change your style, they went out and appointed another photographer in addition to your services?

    Also, the freelancer they hired may actually be a friend. So perhaps what they told you was the truth.

    As for that photographer's style of shooting, it depends if he did that on his own accord, or if he was instructed by 'someone' or 'anyone' to fulfill the roles and responsibilities of the main photographer. Or may be he was the 'dominant' type who simply don't care about other photographers?

    When you were informed that there will be a 2nd photographer, did you ask for a meeting to discuss things so that situations like these would not happen? Or did your friend take the initiative to disclose and discuss these matters with you, or at least inform you nicely?

    Very often, couples are not logistics experts when it comes to photographers, so assuming you were the main photographer, it was your responsibility to do the necessary, i.e., call for a meeting in advance, or at least for a short briefing on the day itself to ensure that such things do not happen/there are no clashes etc.

    Put simply: As the main photographer, you're preety much supposed to be in charge of these matters.

    Since it's a friend who hired you, I would first speak WITH that friend, in a neutral manner, to find out more details before forming opinions or conclusions.

    From your nick and the way you post, I get the impression that you're a nice guy. Sometimes, nice guys kenar makan or get taken fore granted more easily.

    Also, a small bit of advise: NEVER confuse friendship or familiarity with business. It's a recipe for disaster. Everything should still be handled professionally.

    Hope you manage to find out what you need to know and settle this so that your friendship is not affected.


    * NOT NOT NOT saying you were not professional or anything, but I tell you this from experience: people, sometimes women more than men, who are having anxiety attacks or going through a nervous phase can be very difficult to please.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Wat wull u do if u were in my shoe.

    Quote Originally Posted by noob sniper View Post
    hi everyone here in cs , just wana ask wat will u do if u encounter this ? ok here the story goes... a friend of mine hire me as the main photograper to cover for his out door wedding and actual day etc , so i did a plan like timing , location and wat to cover during the big day of my friend , but after shooting the outdoor and the following week is their actual day and all the sudden my friend sms me said that i dun need to cover the female side on that morning , reason given to me is they have a friend to cover that and am fine with that so i cover the male side , but during the actual day i found out that the so call friend of the female side is not their friend , it a freelance photograper hire by the female side , well am telling myself it ok maybe they wan to cover both side at the same time , but during the shoot when ever i try to take a shot that guy will just go into my picture and take all the good angle and when we both trying to shoot he will tell me to stand aside and let him do the shoot 1st ..... well i feel i was making a fool outta myself infront of some many ppl and look like an extra , so bro and sis here wat will u do if u r in my shoe ?
    A few points you need to realise:
    1. For any wedding photography, the "Bride" side is more critical and exciting - dont ask why but it's obvious, unless the Groom is a prince/celebrity ...
    2. Usually even for paid pro photographer, the better shooter will handle the female side,
    3. If you are not a paid photographer, you are the not main photographer.

    Unless you are "officially" been told that you are the main photographer, there is no need to fight for the best angles. In fact, this is a good opportunity to take artistic angles and leave the usual group shoots to the other guy. Do not fight and let him take the responsibility to have good shots. If you fight for attention, then you are doing a disservice to your friend, as usually in a group shot, there will be some looking at you and some looking at him ,etc....

    Like I said, unless you are specifically being told and paid like the main photographer, give way and enjoy your shooting.
    always the Light, .... always.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Wat wull u do if u were in my shoe.

    Think the main issue is that the TS was hired as the "main photographer", and when a 2nd photographer was brought in, he was in some way or another relegated to 2nd shooter position.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Wat wull u do if u were in my shoe.

    Quote Originally Posted by noob sniper View Post
    i understand wat u mean , but i think u miss out 1 point am also been paid for the wedding job .
    If this is the case, it is better to talk to your friend and the bride and let them decide who should have the better coverage .... it is NEVER a good idea to have 2 or more "main" photographers as everyone will be confused who to pose for, and it is quite silly to have group shots by different guys!

    Have being in the same shoe many times before, and so when my relatives asked why I took not too many shots, I told them that there was a pro photographer shooting and there is no need for me to shoot the same things .... haha
    Last edited by Canonised; 26th July 2008 at 01:16 PM.
    always the Light, .... always.

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    Default Re: Wat wull u do if u were in my shoe.

    point #1 i did try to arrange a meetup to discuss like wat style they like etc , endup the reason given is they dun have the time .

    point #2 i was only inform that there will be another photographer in less than 12hr b4 the actual day .

    thks for the advise dream merchant =)
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  11. #11

    Default Re: Wat wull u do if u were in my shoe.

    Quote Originally Posted by noob sniper View Post
    point #1 i did try to arrange a meetup to discuss like wat style they like etc , endup the reason given is they dun have the time .

    point #2 i was only inform that there will be another photographer in less than 12hr b4 the actual day .

    thks for the advise dream merchant =)

    Then the best thing to do, if you face a similar situation, it to tackle the 'discussion' with all parties present when the 2nd photog arrives. Takes only 1-2 minutes.

    Have a kopi and friendly chat with your friend after the honeymoon or when things settle down lah. Let him know nicely how you feel. If he is a quality friend, the two of you should be able to chat about the matter openly. There may be some other 'reason' involved.

    All the best.

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    Default Re: Wat wull u do if u were in my shoe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Canonised View Post
    If this is the case, it is better to talk to your friend and the bride and let them decide who should have the better coverage .... it is NEVER a good idea to have 2 or more "main" photographers as everyone will be confused who to pose for, and it is quite silly to have group shots by different guys!

    Have being in the same shoe many times before, and so when my relatives asked why I took not too many shots, I told them that there was a pro photographer shooting and there is no need for me to shoot the same things .... haha
    yes bro canonised , i find it silly to take group shots with 2 photographer , wat i did is i told my friend they dun need me for this actual day wedding since they have another photographer covering it and told him that i will refund 50% to him , than i go off , frankly speaking am not in a very good mood becoz of this and i dun wana spoil my friend big day so i think it is better for me to go b4 i blowup and i think it the best for all of us .
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  13. #13

    Default Re: Wat wull u do if u were in my shoe.

    My two cents worth....

    Your friend wanted to fire you for some reason but as some said here. To save face, they didn't do it out right. Hence the dilly and dally. The photographer was employed to replace you and to make up for whatever perceived boos boos you were supposed to have made during the outdoor shoot. It is clear they don't like what you took but were too paiseh to tell you.

    I am not saying that you did anything wrong but just offering my advice on how I read it. Sometimes brides are really really hard to please and they can really be picky about things and also worse very affected by what others say.

    The signs are clear, telling you no time to have a discussion.... I mean dude. its your wedding photos... I am sure you didn't plan to wed in 10 days.... more likely 10 months to 12 months on average. Sure there will be a time to meet right? And the way the photographer ignored you and told you to let him go first.... I mean he is rude but he might have been instructed to make sure he gets what you "missed" and the couple might have told him that you failed them and hence please make sure he doesn't repeat the same mistakes.

    Walking away was a good decision, really no point and you are just going to make yourself feel shitty during the wedding....

  14. #14

    Default Re: Wat wull u do if u were in my shoe.

    Noob, are the couple chasing you for pictures? Prob not. Then just move on.
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    Default Re: Wat wull u do if u were in my shoe.

    that is was how i feel too , coz when i reach my friend house , he was infront of his computer looking at all his wedding outdoor photo and i notice some of those photo were not taken by me , but he said those photo shoot look bad that why they hire me , now come to think of it , maybe u r right i fail them on the outdoor and they get me replaced , if this is the true reason i gratz that i walk away instead of making a fool outta myself ...... on and off i cant stop thinking abt it asking myself this i know am not that good compare to most of the bro and sis here is cs , and am i too lousy or not up to the job or maybe my shooting style did not suit their taste ? frankly speaking thinking of it my heart turn cold .
    Last edited by noob sniper; 26th July 2008 at 04:08 PM.
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  16. #16

    Default Re: Wat wull u do if u were in my shoe.

    They hired another photographer for their outdoor shoot.

    They not happy.

    Then they hire you to do both their outdoor and be the main for their AD.

    Then 1 week before the AD, they tell you another photographer is being hired for the AD in addition to you.


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    Default Re: Wat wull u do if u were in my shoe.

    [QUOTE=Dream Merchant;4200394]They hired another photographer for their outdoor shoot.

    They not happy.

    Then they hire you to do both their outdoor and be the main for their AD.

    Then 1 week before the AD, they tell you another photographer is being hired for the AD in addition to you.

    [/QUOTE


    that is provided wat my friend told me is true if not most likely am the 1st photographer that fail them and the other guys is the 2nd photographer.
    Last edited by noob sniper; 26th July 2008 at 04:53 PM.
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  18. #18

    Default Re: Wat wull u do if u were in my shoe.

    Quote Originally Posted by noob sniper View Post
    that is was how i feel too , coz when i reach my friend house , he was infront of his computer looking at all his wedding outdoor photo and i notice some of those photo were not taken by me , but he said those photo shoot look bad that why they hire me , now come to think of it , maybe u r right i fail them on the outdoor and they get me replaced , if this is the true reason i gratz that i walk away instead of making a fool outta myself ...... on and off i cant stop thinking abt it asking myself this i know am not that good compare to most of the bro and sis here is cs , and am i too lousy or not up to the job or maybe my shooting style did not suit their taste ? frankly speaking thinking of it my heart turn cold .
    I would have first gone with the family to watch a good movie, eats lots of popcorn and drink coke. See how people put on weight...

    Then (a couple of days later) I would have looked at the photos that I took, and looked for some other good wedding photos (from a book or from some of the people in clubsnap whose wedding photography you like). I would have compared what I have done and what others have done and challenged myself to improve, based on the comparison, not on imitation, and not based on your friend's on and off. You should also ask some other people to look at these photos and ask them for advice how to improve. Buy them a cup of coffee lah $1.10 well spend!

    As with regards to your friend.. He is not your problem

    -- Marios

  19. #19

    Default Re: Wat wull u do if u were in my shoe.

    Quote Originally Posted by noob sniper View Post
    that is was how i feel too , coz when i reach my friend house , he was infront of his computer looking at all his wedding outdoor photo and i notice some of those photo were not taken by me , but he said those photo shoot look bad that why they hire me , now come to think of it , maybe u r right i fail them on the outdoor and they get me replaced , if this is the true reason i gratz that i walk away instead of making a fool outta myself ...... on and off i cant stop thinking abt it asking myself this i know am not that good compare to most of the bro and sis here is cs , and am i too lousy or not up to the job or maybe my shooting style did not suit their taste ? frankly speaking thinking of it my heart turn cold .
    Well learn from it and maybe take your pictures and let some neutral parties evaluate them if you really want to. No point asking your friend, he is not going to be honest with you.

    Sometimes it could also have nothing to do with your skills. There could be many factors.. one of the most common.... bride is indecisive.... wishy washy and put it this way, first experience with a wedding. Bride is demanding... want the "perfect" wedding to remember for life.... so maybe she

    1) was not happy in the first place, her hubby asked a friend to do it... she wanted some professional photographer.
    2) Her friends or relatives find out about you and tell her that she is crazy... should get professional photographers.
    3) Her friends say your pictures suck.... cos you are non professional not because you are not good.

    So relax and don't worry about it.... and may I add, the way your friend is changing photographers? Means he don't really know what he wants or he is not willing to pay for the kind of standards he is expecting.... so he ask you a friend to do it. It's like you want to hit 350km on the track, but u cannot afford a F1 car ,so u get lancer then you get a lexus and finally a wrx and you keep complaining it's the car, its the road conditions but not realising you will never hit 350km per hour because you are not getting the right car.
    Last edited by aeskywan; 26th July 2008 at 04:53 PM.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Wat wull u do if u were in my shoe.

    i think most ppl in sg without interest in photography has that common mindset that good photos can be cheap....well they're wrong, what you pay is what you get.
    wedding is a once a lifetime thing, want good stuff better be prepared to pay more.

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