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Thread: Giving credit to a photographer

  1. #21
    Senior Member Leong23's Avatar
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    Default Re: Giving credit to a photographer

    Quote Originally Posted by jkaiser View Post
    hmmm i shot for a theatre grp, paid, recently.. the photos came out in ST and ZB, both credited to the theatre grp.. i not sure how this works, but i think yea once they paid for it, photos become theirs. In fact they are oftern nice enuff to lemme use some shots for my portfolio...

    then again, what would i give to have my name in the papers haha!
    I used to shoot for theatre and dance group for their media release, they will normally credit me in their performance programme.

  2. #22
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    Default Re: Giving credit to a photographer

    going by the way the discussion is developing, i think it's a matter of courtesy... the agency can use ur photo w/o crediting u, since the photo in the eyes of the law no longer belongs to u. It's a matter of whether they are nice enuff to tell u or not.. they dun have to, but it's good if they do
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  3. #23
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Giving credit to a photographer

    Yup Jkaiser sums it up pretty well.

  4. #24
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    Default Re: Giving credit to a photographer

    Quote Originally Posted by jkaiser View Post
    going by the way the discussion is developing, i think it's a matter of courtesy... the agency can use ur photo w/o crediting u, since the photo in the eyes of the law no longer belongs to u. It's a matter of whether they are nice enuff to tell u or not.. they dun have to, but it's good if they do
    yup! ...agreed with u too!

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Giving credit to a photographer

    Quote Originally Posted by jkaiser View Post
    going by the way the discussion is developing, i think it's a matter of courtesy... the agency can use ur photo w/o crediting u, since the photo in the eyes of the law no longer belongs to u. It's a matter of whether they are nice enuff to tell u or not.. they dun have to, but it's good if they do
    Though it may be true, it's not a common practise for agency to call the photographer to inform or to credit the photographer unless they know that it was a TFCD shoot. Not very nice but that how it's done nowadays.

    At the heart of the matter, the model is the one who supply them with the image, we don't know what the model told the agency and as such can we blame the agency? Did she tell them to credit the photographer? In this case, the model paid for the shoot so she have the right to use it as she see fit, unless the contract between her and the photographer states otherwise.
    Last edited by yqt; 1st August 2008 at 06:23 PM.
    I get paid more shooting part time ...... damn, I should find more time to shoot part time

  6. #26
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    Default Re: Giving credit to a photographer

    Quote Originally Posted by Kimura_papaya View Post
    if the agency know the picture is done by mutabor, as courtesy should at least get the model to informed the photog. unless there is a written contract say that model can use picture freely or there is an agreement between model and photog (which in this case is sad, they doenst have).

    i assume when model hand in picture, the agency should know who is the photographer oredi.

    cheap and despicable, becos i find the model agency should have use own studio to shoot model pf instead of using other people picture.
    lets look at it this way.

    Years back many "agency" sent each and every model to the "agency's appointed photographer" to shoot their comcard. After shooting, they send it for printing. Model pay for all this which is about $300/-to $400/- of which the "agency" make at least $200/-. Other agencies look at the photos the model have. If it's reasonably presentable, they use it. Model paid about $100/- for printing.

    All this before anyone even sees the model. Who is the one who loss out in the end? Who got the better deal?
    Last edited by yqt; 1st August 2008 at 06:22 PM.
    I get paid more shooting part time ...... damn, I should find more time to shoot part time

  7. #27
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    Default Re: Giving credit to a photographer

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    Yup Jkaiser sums it up pretty well.
    which makes ts' griping even more hilarious considering he no longer has any claims to the shots since money changed hands.
    Opinions are like A-holes. Everyone's got one.

  8. #28

    Default Re: Giving credit to a photographer

    The Copyright Act Chapter 63 section 258, Rights Management Information may include (b) information that identifies the author of the work, which in this case is a watermark.

    However, section 260 seemed to be quite grey... As there is the possiblity that the owner and the author may be different person. It does not mention anything about whether the author can still exercise his rights for RMI.

    While it is true that the copyright now belongs to the model since it was a commissioned shoot, it neither meant that the new copyright owner have the rights to alter or to remove the Rights Management Information which in this case is a watermark.

    Having your watermarks removed without your permission is quite immoral and unethical IMO. What's worst can be having someone else's name over your picture.
    See this case: http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=333907

    Sorry I can't help much because I'm also having many other problems.
    I am NOT a PROfessional photographer and photography is NOT my hobby

  9. #29
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Giving credit to a photographer

    This is what I like about online forums - people bringing up new points of view for discussion

    Anyway for the sections you brought up, in the Copyright Act:

    Owner means the person who owns copyright to the work.
    Author in relation to a photograph, means the person who took the photograph.

    I read this to mean that only the owner of the copyright in the work can take action to enforce rights under Section 260, not the author.

    Hence the statement "While it is true that the copyright now belongs to the model since it was a commissioned shoot, it neither meant that the new copyright owner have the rights to alter or to remove the Rights Management Information which in this case is a watermark." may not be accurate.

    Whilst I can understand the frustration felt by photographers over the need to protect their watermark, the sad fact is that the law does not provide any legal protection to such watermarks. Once you have sold your rights, you can't get it back. It's the same as a sale of a product, once you bought something, the original maker cannot stop you from doing anything you want with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Youhong View Post
    The Copyright Act Chapter 63 section 258, Rights Management Information may include (b) information that identifies the author of the work, which in this case is a watermark.

    However, section 260 seemed to be quite grey... As there is the possiblity that the owner and the author may be different person. It does not mention anything about whether the author can still exercise his rights for RMI.

    While it is true that the copyright now belongs to the model since it was a commissioned shoot, it neither meant that the new copyright owner have the rights to alter or to remove the Rights Management Information which in this case is a watermark.

    Having your watermarks removed without your permission is quite immoral and unethical IMO. What's worst can be having someone else's name over your picture.
    See this case: http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=333907

    Sorry I can't help much because I'm also having many other problems.
    Last edited by vince123123; 2nd August 2008 at 10:14 AM.

  10. #30

    Default Re: Giving credit to a photographer

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    Whilst I can understand the frustration felt by photographers over the need to protect their watermark, the sad fact is that the law does not provide any legal protection to such watermarks. Once you have sold your rights, you can't get it back. It's the same as a sale of a product, once you bought something, the original maker cannot stop you from doing anything you want with it.
    What you are saying is probably true, and you know a lot more than me at least on it, but, how is the law then different from DVD's, CDs, software etc where they state that you are only allowed to view it? Cannot rent, make extra copies etc.. conditions of sale comes also with conditions of use.

    Thus: sale for DVDs etc does not grant you the right to do what you like but only to view.. ?? Why not for photos.. "cannot remove watermark", cannot enlarge etc etc..

    I am sure there are going to be some differences, but where??

    Many thanks

    -- Marios

  11. #31
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    Default Re: Giving credit to a photographer

    Quote Originally Posted by marios_pittas View Post
    What you are saying is probably true, and you know a lot more than me at least on it, but, how is the law then different from DVD's, CDs, software etc where they state that you are only allowed to view it? Cannot rent, make extra copies etc.. conditions of sale comes also with conditions of use.

    Thus: sale for DVDs etc does not grant you the right to do what you like but only to view.. ?? Why not for photos.. "cannot remove watermark", cannot enlarge etc etc..

    I am sure there are going to be some differences, but where??

    Many thanks

    -- Marios
    Hope you don't mind I give my 2cts worth

    As was mentioned, that's the condition of the sale.

    If it's stated in the contract between the photograpger that she can't remove the watermark, can't let a third party use the image, can't PP the image, etc, that she can't do it. In the absent of any conditions, it would be considered an uncondition sale, subjected to present laws of the land, ie; can't credit another photographer for the creation of the image.
    Last edited by yqt; 2nd August 2008 at 12:16 PM.
    I get paid more shooting part time ...... damn, I should find more time to shoot part time

  12. #32

    Default Re: Giving credit to a photographer

    Quote Originally Posted by yqt View Post
    Hope you don't mind I give my 2cts worth

    As was mentioned, that's the condition of the sale.

    If it's stated in the contract between the photograpger that she can't remove the watermark, can't let a third party use the image, can't PP the image, etc, that she can't do it. In the absent of any conditions, it would be considered an uncondition sale, subjected to present laws of the land, ie; can't credit another photographer for the creation of the image.
    Thank you I guess it is best then to go with the eyes open then BEFORE doing agreeing rather getting shocks AFTER delivering. Many thanks to all of you for sharing and educating us lot!

  13. #33
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    Default Re: Giving credit to a photographer

    Quote Originally Posted by jkaiser
    hmmm i shot for a theatre grp, paid, recently.. the photos came out in ST and ZB, both credited to the theatre grp.. i not sure how this works, but i think yea once they paid for it, photos become theirs. In fact they are oftern nice enuff to lemme use some shots for my portfolio...

    then again, what would i give to have my name in the papers haha!
    i juz did a shoot of an event: Pitch '08, with my friend in Ngee Ann poly yesterday F.O.C ...and probably one of our pictures will be on the ST...but i was wondering if the pic did go on the papers, will ST put the credits for the photos to Ngee Ann poly or to either of us?

    srry duno if i ask it correctly...heh
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  14. #34
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Giving credit to a photographer

    Yqt pretty much got it spot on.

    For DVDs, there are additional terms of sale (usually printed on the reverse side).

    Quote Originally Posted by marios_pittas View Post
    What you are saying is probably true, and you know a lot more than me at least on it, but, how is the law then different from DVD's, CDs, software etc where they state that you are only allowed to view it? Cannot rent, make extra copies etc.. conditions of sale comes also with conditions of use.

    Thus: sale for DVDs etc does not grant you the right to do what you like but only to view.. ?? Why not for photos.. "cannot remove watermark", cannot enlarge etc etc..

    I am sure there are going to be some differences, but where??

    Many thanks

    -- Marios

  15. #35
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Giving credit to a photographer

    Depends on what you discussed with ST on your photo.

    Quote Originally Posted by maswu View Post
    i juz did a shoot of an event: Pitch '08, with my friend in Ngee Ann poly yesterday F.O.C ...and probably one of our pictures will be on the ST...but i was wondering if the pic did go on the papers, will ST put the credits for the photos to Ngee Ann poly or to either of us?

    srry duno if i ask it correctly...heh

  16. #36
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    Default Re: Giving credit to a photographer

    Quote Originally Posted by maswu View Post
    i juz did a shoot of an event: Pitch '08, with my friend in Ngee Ann poly yesterday F.O.C ...and probably one of our pictures will be on the ST...but i was wondering if the pic did go on the papers, will ST put the credits for the photos to Ngee Ann poly or to either of us?

    srry duno if i ask it correctly...heh
    more than likely if u have nothing in writing you're screwed.
    Opinions are like A-holes. Everyone's got one.

  17. #37
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    Default Re: Giving credit to a photographer

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123
    Depends on what you discussed with ST on your photo.
    nothing was discussed. I simply handed over the pics to someone in charge of the event.
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  18. #38
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Giving credit to a photographer

    Were you the official photographer engaged? Or just a passerby?

    Quote Originally Posted by maswu View Post
    nothing was discussed. I simply handed over the pics to someone in charge of the event.

  19. #39
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    Default Re: Giving credit to a photographer

    i was the official photographer...but nothing was discussed cuz i didnt deal directly with ST...it was thru the event commitee...
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  20. #40
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Giving credit to a photographer

    Then the question is whether it was a commissioned work or not. Did you receive any advantage of any sort (it does not have to be money) in taking photos for them? Say special access to certain places? A buffet reception at the end? Or anything at all?

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