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Thread: im sorry, but... ...

  1. #41
    Megadark
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    What's "troll'?

  2. #42
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    Originally posted by halfagoodman
    hi, and this is my reply.

    first of all, yes, i've been reading the threads of clubsnap for the past few months before registering.

    i feel that photography is a very subjective art. some people shoot just for the sake of earning some keep to support their family, whilst others are shooting because they like photography.
    If you also believe that photography is subjective, calling it an art, then why do you think you can define a photographer by the equipment he uses?

    Originally posted by halfagoodman
    i had PM langzi, whom never posted a thread here ever since he was so badly flamed, and i was lucky to had PM him early. he said that instead of spending 20mins in clubsnap typing replies to some dumb thread, he would rather be surfing the web on other aspect of photography or go shooting some pics.
    Like what you did, langzi made a pathetic attack on the members of ClubSNAP without any valid justification for his claim. That's the reason his post was treated the way it was treated. langzi made 1 sweeping statement in his post, and you made 2 in your original post, and a few more in this latest post.

    In fact I feel that both his and your thread has been given much more attention than you deserve. I suggest that you put your ego and emotions aside for a while and try to read the posts carefully. You will learn something.

    Originally posted by halfagoodman
    i have a camera, fyi. EOS 300.
    That does not prove anything. I have 5 SLR bodies. Before you started this thread, I would not claim that I am a better photographer than you are.

    Originally posted by halfagoodman
    Ian, i think that you are basically using your experience to 'crush' ppl. you think that you have shot alot of pics and thus you have the most experience. well, some never made it, but i hope you are not one of them. so what if i have never shot 1/10th of your no. of film? does it matter??
    Both Ian's original and the edited reply to you, though not as compassionate as you would like it to be, are very insightful, informative and educational. If you actually read more of his other posts, you will notice that he does not go around "crushing' others with his experience. He is generally very helpful and I believe many of us has benefit from him (in a very friendly way). So there must be a reason for his attitude towards you. What do you think that reason is?

    While the others are most likely trying to learn something from his post, your only response is another pathetic attempt to strike back. Please try to read his post again carefully. If you do not agree, then refute his arguments specifically.

    Originally posted by halfagoodman
    so whayt if i have never posted my shots here? does it matter?? why rae you guys so eager to see the pics that others have taken as a confirmation of them taking pictures??
    To post or not to post, it is your choice. No one can force you to.
    On the other hand, whether the others believe that you are a competent photographer, it is not your choice. If you want people to regard you as a good photographer (which is again your choice), the only way to convince others by posting your work (good ones), and/or by participating in intelligent discussions.

    If you have not done either, then don't expect anyone here to take you as a serious photographer. The most you can get is the benefit of doubt, provided you do not ruin that by doing/saying something stupid.

    Originally posted by halfagoodman
    nicholas1986, taking 1 yr to learn DOP is too slow. nevermind, you are stil young...cannot blame.
    How long did it take you to learn DOP? What is DOP by the way? From your statement, I take it that it has taken you much shorter than a year to learn that, so I am challenging you to give a good definition of DOP.

    I have not heard of DOP. The closest I can think of is DOF. I initially thought it might have been a typo in nicholas1986's post, but since you have confirmed that you have learnt DOP in a short time, then please educate me. There is always something new to learn.

    On what basis did you make your claim about nicholas1986's age? From your other post I know that you have recently just got your O level results. I would then guess your age to be 16. If nicholas was born in 1986 (deducing from his nick), then that makes both of you at about the same age. Even if you have to repeat every year in secondary school that would only make you 19 years old. By the way age has nothing much to do with the capability and speed of learning.

    Originally posted by halfagoodman
    i saw the poll on how many years of experience the ppl here have, and was surprised to see that a huge portion had 1 yr or less of experience...i shot since sec 1 till now....
    So you have what, like 4 years of shooting experience? Again, that does not prove anything unless you can show us your work. Otherwise, it is just an empty claim.

    Originally posted by halfagoodman
    im not trying to be proud, but pls look through some of the threads like by nicholas1986. its like he is the god pf photography and that he knows all the whoo ha of photography.
    You have not shown us anything that you can be proud of, but you have shown us that you are arrogant. I looked through some of nicholas1986's recent posts. I do not get the impression that he is holding an almighty attitude. At least he has not made any sweeping statements without backing information.

    Originally posted by halfagoodman
    i admit that i have never went for any SEED or outings, as i prefer to shoot pics alone, w/o the disruption of other ppl. most photograhers, when they reach a stage, would start this habit. dont tell me that henri cartier bresson went shooting with all his friends....im not comparing myself to him, mind you.

    1/2
    If you prefer to shoot alone, and regard fellow photographers as nothing more than "disruptions", that is your choice. Some day if you get interested in sports photography such as football, you will have to hire the entire statdium and 2 football teams to play specially for you so that you can shoot the pictures alone without disrruptions.

    Originally posted by halfagoodman
    btw, is there any photography forum based in Sg where ppl like me and langzi can hang out?
    Doesn't seem like you need a forum.

    Adam has been very kind to offer you an invitation to meet with the members here, hoping that he can change your perception about the forum, and make your stay here more enjoyable and meaningful. I really salute him for his effort. Why don't you give it a try, and attend one of the gatherings and see for yourself?

    - Roy
    As complexity rises, precise statements lose meaning and meaningful statements lose precision.

  3. #43

    Default Re: reply

    Originally posted by halfagoodman
    i have a camera, fyi. EOS 300.
    Big deal. I know of many kids having SLRs.

    Originally posted by halfagoodman
    Ian, i think that you are basically using your experience to 'crush' ppl. you think that you have shot alot of pics and thus you have the most experience. well, some never made it, but i hope you are not one of them. so what if i have never shot 1/10th of your no. of film? does it matter?
    Why is it you have the impression that Ian is crushing you? Do you have a brain to logically think properly over his reply to your post?

    Originally posted by halfagoodman
    so whayt if i have never posted my shots here? does it matter?? why rae you guys so eager to see the pics that others have taken as a confirmation of them taking pictures?
    I am sure we are not eager to see your shots. But this is a photography forum. When someone like you comes along, all talk and no show is BS.

    Originally posted by halfagoodman
    nicholas1986, taking 1 yr to learn DOP is too slow. nevermind, you are stil young...cannot blame.
    DOP? Whats that?

    You have just been accepted into Poly, Kid. Who are you to say that nich is young? He may well have more knowledge than you or perhaps you are jealous.


    Originally posted by halfagoodman
    i saw the poll on how many years of experience the ppl here have, and was surprised to see that a huge portion had 1 yr or less of experience...i shot since sec 1 till now...
    Each and everyone here have their learning curves and commitment. That does not make you better than them.

    Originally posted by halfagoodman
    im not trying to be proud, but pls look through some of the threads like by nicholas1986. its like he is the god pf photography and that he knows all the whoo ha of photography.
    Personal Attack. If you are not happy with him, bring this somewhere else. It only reflects on you.

    Originally posted by halfagoodman
    i admit that i have never went for any SEED or outings, as i prefer to shoot pics alone, w/o the disruption of other ppl. most photograhers, when they reach a stage, would start this habit. dont tell me that henri cartier bresson went shooting with all his friends....im not comparing myself to him, mind you.
    You want to be alone. You don't need friends. You don't want to share your knowledge. Be humble kid, bring yourself down to earth and open up. Proud and arrogant is not the way to go. Not forgetting ignorant.

    Originally posted by halfagoodman
    btw, is there any photography forum based in Sg where ppl like me and langzi can hang out?
    There are so many forums and discussion list all over. You do not have to limit yourself to Singapore. You want to be alone and think so highly of yourself, why do you still need a forum?
    You do not need to hang out anywhere, perhaps you can consider hanging yourself if you still does not come down to earth.
    Last edited by JasK; 30th March 2002 at 06:38 AM.

  4. #44
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    I've been monitoring this thread and haven't said anything, because after the Nicholas and Leonard threads, I'm not so sure what to say anymore. Might also have something to do with the fact that I no longer have 24/7 net connection, at least not for a couple of weeks.

    Something in Roy's post just got me needing to say something.

    Leonard is, I believe, 17. Nicholas is 16. And I find out in Roy's post that 1/2 is all of 16. Now, anybody who's been around this forum some time will know that I'm not keen to be politically incorrect. But this seems to much of a coincidence now for me to keep my gob shut, which I'll probably regret.

    Three youngsters (and I don't use that term lightly, seeing as I'm not 24 myself), who don't seem to know better. I have absolutely nothing against youth, (or at least, I hadn't before), and Leonard's initial furore I took as a flash in the pan, Nicholas's follow up as co-incidence, but a third incidence?

    Is Singapore breeding a rash of young photographers who feel the world owes them a living and they are better than the rest? Without meaning to be arrogant (I have never felt it necessary to say anything of this nature before), but I feel that I am a decent enough photographer who has been mixing it at the sharp end of the business and the art. I don't feel any need to slam the people on clubsnap for being [1] primarily digital photographers [2] technically inexperienced, etc.

    How come professionals like Ian who have lots of experience and technical know-how don't condemn the rest of the people on Clubsnap, but it is the young inexperienced visitors who feel it is their civic duty to do so? And let's face it, I'm still completely unsure about the experience, aesthetic skill or technical know-how of any of the three, and from what I've seen from their postings, Leonard and Nicholas are certainly not as advanced as some of the people on this forum.

    Now, like I said above, I have absolutely nothing against youth. I don't prejudge someone because they're young. Half, when I first read that you were looking to run away with Langzi to some other place on the Net, I thought to myself, good, you two go, you deserve each other. Suddenly, I find out from Roy's post that you're about his age. And I'm now thinking to myself, it figures...

    Go, go read up stuff from other more "useful" areas of the Net. I've done it myself, and it's very good advice particularly if you learn to practice what you preach. I've been down that road myself, reaped the benefits, so please do. But there is absolutely nothing that requires you to lambast everyone on clubsnap and letting them know that they are completely incompetent photographers, when you don't know all that much yourself. I wouldn't dream of telling the general public on clubsnap that, and unless you know more than I do, and have more experience than I do, I suggest you don't either.

    Now after all that, read my signature, it's there for a reason. In this case, it may take a bit of modification, but the basic tenant stands. I have no quibble whatsoever with people (young or old) who know absolutely nothing. I have no quibble with someone who knows nothing constantly asking questions; we were all once at that stage. My problem comes with idiots who don't really know a lot but think they do. In this case, people who think they're better than the rest of us. Even if this were the case, which I highly doubt, the arrogance and immaturity leaves a lot to be desired.

    Now, as with always, Langzi and Nicholas I believe are still around, and as far as I'm concerned are welcome to stay around. If they started asking the right questions without asking the wrong ones, I've got no problems. The same applies to yourself, Half, should you choose to hang around. I guess that's just me, a sucker for punishment.
    On a personal rant, sometimes, when I have to correct some numbskull who thinks they know more than they actually do, and goes around misleading people, I get dragged into the muck. Kelvinty and that unsharp mask issue comes to mind. So I'd much prefer if you didn't start getting personal. While I deal in specifics in this post, I am not directing any of this at you personally, Half, just this post of yours. Should that nonsense cease, then I have no problem with, no pun intended, your good self.

    Leonard and Nicholas, let me apologise for having to dredge the two of you up into this thread; as far as I'm concerned, the two of you have "done your time" and the old threads should be laid to rest. I'm more than happy to help either of you should you need my help and if I can help. At least until either of you two say anything pretentious or downright stupid again (not that I'm saying that you will); but that goes for everyone. Possibly even Ian.

    Until then, good shooting.

  5. #45
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    Originally posted by Jed
    Three youngsters (and I don't use that term lightly, seeing as I'm not 24 myself), who don't seem to know better. I have absolutely nothing against youth, (or at least, I hadn't before), and Leonard's initial furore I took as a flash in the pan, Nicholas's follow up as co-incidence, but a third incidence?

    Is Singapore breeding a rash of young photographers who feel the world owes them a living and they are better than the rest? Without meaning to be arrogant (I have never felt it necessary to say anything of this nature before), but I feel that I am a decent enough photographer who has been mixing it at the sharp end of the business and the art. I don't feel any need to slam the people on clubsnap for being [1] primarily digital photographers [2] technically inexperienced, etc.

    How come professionals like Ian who have lots of experience and technical know-how don't condemn the rest of the people on Clubsnap, but it is the young inexperienced visitors who feel it is their civic duty to do so? And let's face it, I'm still completely unsure about the experience, aesthetic skill or technical know-how of any of the three, and from what I've seen from their postings, Leonard and Nicholas are certainly not as advanced as some of the people on this forum.
    Ahh the Digital Master has awoken and his fury hath no bounds I see

    Seriously though Jed I too have been pondering along the same lines, 3 trolls by 3 users of around the same age is a bit more than a co-incidence methinks.

    Perhaps one of the readers of this thread may be able to help here but I seem to recall 1-2 years back on AP that there was talk of a lecturer in SG who was urging his students to attack all ideas and conceptions in photography. I wonder if the 3 stooges all come from the same school and lecturer perhaps?

    For the public record the reason I do help younger photographers and don't look down on them is because everyone has to start somewhere and thanks to the net the amount of half baked methods and theories pertaining to photography has multiplied many thousand fold. To be honest I don't envy anyone starting out today as there is a real shortage of quality pragmatic advice online and even less in most photography books. I for one am constantly appalled by the lack of fundamental information most books now contain.

    Finally Jed, u know damn well that I pick your brains on matters digital and appreciate all the help you've given me over the months in dragging the old dinosaur (me) kicking and screaming in to the 12st C. in terms of going digital and you can bet your last buck that I'l be picking your immense digital knowledge more in coming months.
    The Ang Moh from Hell
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  6. #46
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    Not all 17yrs olds are like them.. I'm one of them that aren't(at least i think i don't ) Right guys? heheeh...

    I think age doesn't matter.. it's character.. if you have a bad character.. even when u are 90yrs old.. you will not be likeable.

    Cheers !
    Canon Lover :)

  7. #47

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    Aiyoh...lets stop arguing and be juz happy people taking photos.
    One-North Explorers
    | Leave nothing but footprints, take nothing but photos |

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