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Thread: im sorry, but... ...

  1. #1
    halfagoodman
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    Default im sorry, but... ...

    dear all, after spending some time here in clubsnap, i find that i dont for into this new generation of photographers.

    i realise that a huge portion of photographers here are actually using this digital P&S and starting off with this, i hate to admit that i dont really recognise these ppl as photographers, but rather snappers.

    im not saying that a true photographer must carry a heavy duty SLR or use MF, but at least have used a SLR and have a general knowledge of photography, and not have a S30 or S40, shot a few digital pics which they luckily came past by and proudly proclaim themselves as a photographer.

    IMHO, i think that a good picture depends on 95% luck and 5% skills, and this perhaps apply to all photographers, excluding studio works.

    i feel that throughout these 2 mths that i have been in clubsnap, i have learnt nothing. i came here with the hope of meeting some ppl who share the same ideals and establish a friendly contact with them. but sadly, i didnt find any.

    1/2

  2. #2
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    Default Re: im sorry, but... ...

    errr...i think we've discussed something similar here :P

    http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthrea...&threadid=1194

  3. #3

    Default

    oh no, not again ...

  4. #4

    Default

    Pls be patient...take some time and really look at those photos which strike your eye and who the person is...maybe then u can contact them and see for yourself if they fit your expectations of a true photographer...

    Ultimately, a person with an SLR too might not be a photographer if he/she just snaps without thinking...

  5. #5

    Default Re: im sorry, but... ...

    Originally posted by halfagoodman
    i came here with the hope of meeting some ppl who share the same ideals and establish a friendly contact with them. but sadly, i didnt find any.
    well...there are many of these people. Did you try to make an effort? I did, and I've learnt a lot, and made new friends.

    if you are adamant about your definition of a photographer, that's ok, but I don't see more than a handful of us who call themselves photographers. Most of time, we take pics, got a few "lucky" (as you would put it) good ones, and we share with the people here. For the sake of appreciation, for the sake of self-fulfilment. But I don't see people calling themselves photographers because of that. I, for one, call myself an amateur in photography. I think most of us are more concerned with the fun and experience in taking photos, than the "title" imposed on us.

    Through the general photography chat and technical discussions and newbie sections, lots of knowledge were exchanged. Every day someone finds out more about what ISO is, what F stop is, how and when to use fill flash, what are the various types of metering, and the list never ends.

    Try to look beyond own ideas, and you'll find lots of gems in this forum. Cheers!
    Last edited by Tweek; 28th March 2002 at 05:36 PM.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: im sorry, but... ...

    Originally posted by halfagoodman
    but at least have used a SLR and have a general knowledge of photography
    just wondering is it really necessary to have used a SLR before someone can be called a photographer? It's similar to saying that someone needs to write programs on a mainframe before they can be called a programmer, or someone needs to use a wooden racket before they can be a tennis player.

    I thought you should be glad that more people are becoming interested in learning more about photography because of the convenience and cost savings brought by digital cameras. They might not be "photographers" now but they are at least taking a step towards it. Some may become great, some may just stay where they are but in the process they have enjoyed themselves.
    Check out my wildlife pics at www.instagram.com/conrad_nature

  7. #7
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    Oh no, here we go again....

    Remember, it's not the tool that matters, it's the person operating the tool.

    By definition, a photographer is a person who takes photographs. This is regardless of the type of camera he uses. There are some prominent photographers out there who uses nothing more than an Olympus mju II, or so I heard. And not all the good photographers uses SLRs. Even some of the National Geographic photographers don't use SLRs.

    What makes a (good) photographer is not the type/brand of camera/lenses he uses. It's his work that counts.

    Regards
    CK

  8. #8
    ClubSNAP Idol Adam Goi's Avatar
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    Default Re: im sorry, but... ...

    Originally posted by halfagoodman
    dear all, after spending some time here in clubsnap, i find that i dont for into this new generation of photographers.

    i realise that a huge portion of photographers here are actually using this digital P&S and starting off with this, i hate to admit that i dont really recognise these ppl as photographers, but rather snappers.

    im not saying that a true photographer must carry a heavy duty SLR or use MF, but at least have used a SLR and have a general knowledge of photography, and not have a S30 or S40, shot a few digital pics which they luckily came past by and proudly proclaim themselves as a photographer.

    IMHO, i think that a good picture depends on 95% luck and 5% skills, and this perhaps apply to all photographers, excluding studio works.

    i feel that throughout these 2 mths that i have been in clubsnap, i have learnt nothing. i came here with the hope of meeting some ppl who share the same ideals and establish a friendly contact with them. but sadly, i didnt find any.

    1/2
    If you can say yes to the 2 questions I have for you, then you've won your case.

    1. Have you participated any of our SEEDs/gatherings?
    2. Have you participated any of our photoshoots?

    If your answer is no, then I feel your 'assertion' is pretty hasty. Learning/sharing one's passion in photography cannot be done online, i.e. through the forum alone...

    Besides, photography means different to individuals; to some its art, to some is just snapping away, to some its owning the latest and most expensive equipment(which many will contest that being photography)...the point is, no one owns the definition of photography/photographer...to each of its own. As long you enjoy the experience, why do you care how others feel about it?

    Give yourself another chance; give clubsnap another chance and last but not the least, give photography another chance

    Hope to see you in our outings

  9. #9
    ClubSNAP Idol Adam Goi's Avatar
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    Fyi, I'm a eater (I eat what), sleeper (no need to elaborate) and many more and yes, I'm a photographer (get the drift?)...it's just that I'm a lousy one at the moment but I'll continue to find time to improve my kung hu, not forgetting to enjoy myself in the process!

  10. #10
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    Originally posted by Keito
    oh no, not again ...
    Our greatest fear have repeated itself
    Canon Lover :)

  11. #11
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    What about some press photographer? Some of then use DSLR (if i am not wrong) so what do you call them?? Non-photographer...the same concept applies what....if u use a DSLR and u don't like the picture you can just delete it.
    so is it still 95% luck?
    if yes why do the press still need them??

  12. #12
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    Originally posted by ckiang
    Oh no, here we go again....

    Even some of the National Geographic photographers don't use SLRs.

    What makes a (good) photographer is not the type/brand of camera/lenses he uses. It's his work that counts.

    Regards
    CK
    i had was a few issue of the national geo magzine (the last page) it tell us that this photographer is only using a E-10...so what do u think of this? is it luck that his picture was chosen

  13. #13
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    Originally posted by nicholas1986


    i had was a few issue of the national geo magzine (the last page) it tell us that this photographer is only using a E-10...so what do u think of this? is it luck that his picture was chosen
    Aiya, the last page is only an ad lar.

    National Geographic officially say they don't use digital cameras in their assignments, apparently due to reproduction quality issues. (Yes, not even D1X, 1D, etc).

    But yeah, even if they do choose to use a Canon S40 in their assignments, it doesn't make them a non-photographer.

    Regards
    CK

  14. #14
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    Default Re: im sorry, but... ...

    Originally posted by halfagoodman
    i realise that a huge portion of photographers here are actually using this digital P&S and starting off with this, i hate to admit that i dont really recognise these ppl as photographers, but rather snappers.
    Well I'm not a digital P&S user and it's time for you to have a reality check from the Ang Moh devil from Hell (me)

    Lesson 1 - Defining a photographer:

    According to the Cambridge Dictionary Online Edition a photographer is defined thus:

    photographer
    noun (C)
    A photographer is a person who takes photographs, either as a job or as a hobby.

    reference: Cambridge Dictionary entry

    Note that nowhere does it mention that the person has to have any knowledge of how to take a photograph, nor any skill nor anything else for that matter, it is merely the person who takes the photograph for either a job or hobby.

    While it is true that a photgraph is defined as being specifically taken by camera and film you must appreciate that dictionaries take up to 30 years to change the entry of a word once a new meaning has entered general useage. Therefore any rational person would expect the digtal medium to be included next time the word is examined by the lexicographers.

    Originally posted by halfagoodman
    im not saying that a true photographer must carry a heavy duty SLR or use MF, but at least have used a SLR and have a general knowledge of photography, and not have a S30 or S40, shot a few digital pics which they luckily came past by and proudly proclaim themselves as a photographer.
    Ahh more written garbage from you. Where do I start?

    How about "have used an SLR and have a general knowledge of photography" as this is as good a place to start.

    Hmm and those who only use TLR's, or View Cameras? or perhaps Pinhole Camera users? I'm quite sure that you'd be linched if you dared suggest your deadbeat theory at a Leica Rangefinder user meeting, or indeed anywhere else I can think of!

    What about the guy I met a few years ago in sub-Sahran Africa who uses a turn of the century 1/4 frame view camera and hand made glass plates? Isn't he a phoographer? Well by your definition he's not. However he just happens to be the towns professional photographer and probably knows a damn sight more than you do kiddo. And he's never used an SLR in his life as he can't afford one.

    Of course there are also the esoteric professional photographers whose work involves the use of such things as cold cameras, non focusable telescope cameras such as Schmidt Cameras and cryogenically cooled imagers etc. Yet again we have more examples of highly skilled professional photographers who don't use SLR's.

    The cold hard reality is that Anyone who takes a photograph by any means is a photographer however a narrow minded knob flogging moron might beg to differ.

    Now to part 2 of your statements above:
    and have a general knowledge of photography, and not have a S30 or S40, shot a few digital pics

    Woah what a load of excrement that is. A general knowledge of photography, now that's a rich one, so does this mean that if I were to ask you the following questions (which are after all general knowledge questions) and if you can't answer them that you are no longer a photographer?

    Q1 - What is Thiocarb and where is it used?
    Q2 - The Scheimpflug Principle is what?
    Q3 - Who was the largest producer of film in the world in 1900?
    Q4 - What is the darkroom techniqued used to produce sharpness enchanced images called and how is it performed?
    Q5 - What is the formula for calculating the effective guide number when using multiple flash units?

    I doubt if 1 in 100 amateurs or professionals could answer all of those questions without looking up the answers, and since you are so high and mighty, can you answer them off the cuff? I doubt it!

    A general knowlege of photography develops with time it is not a perquiste of being a photographer and it is not essential.

    As for specifying which cameras are and aren't acceptable, well what can I say? I hereby decree that all users of Linhof Technikas are the only true photographers in the world? Absurd isn't it? and guess what? So is your statement about the S30 or S40 users not being photographers.

    Originally posted by halfagoodman
    IMHO, i think that a good picture depends on 95% luck and 5% skills, and this perhaps apply to all photographers, excluding studio works.
    Ahh such a limited understanding of reality.

    Luck does play it's part in photography, in particular being at the right place and at the right time. However that's about all the luck there is in photography. The rest (about 90%) is down to pure skill and being able to work with what ever circumstances you are dealt.

    A cold reality check here, Studio work is actually very easy to do. You have such luxuries as adjustable lighting, static or near static subjects in most cases. Of course one must not forget the studio photographers friend, the Polaroid Back. This time and labour saving device allows the photographer to preview lighting and exposure as well as composition before taking the final frame proper.

    While those poor sods who shoot wildlife, sports, news, landscapes and so on get to deal with what ever they are dealt. There's no time for polaroid backs if your shooting motor sports, or for that matter soccer, wildlife or indeed the majority of ourdoor photography, news or other non studio based work.

    Finally I'd suggest you come back with your half assed theories in a few years time when you've shot 1/10th of the amount of film I have and then tell me all about skill versus luck.

    Originally posted by halfagoodman
    i feel that throughout these 2 mths that i have been in clubsnap, i have learnt nothing. i came here with the hope of meeting some ppl who share the same ideals and establish a friendly contact with them. but sadly, i didnt find any.
    With an attitude like yours that's not surprising, you should learn a bit of humility, open your eyes and look at the work others are producing, ask a few questions and maybe some of the more knowedgable posters here such as Jed, Sriram, Red Dawn or myself might answer you, however a pathetic attack like the one you've posted here will be treated with the true contempt it deserves.

    The Ang Moh has spoken.
    Last edited by Ian; 29th March 2002 at 03:05 PM.
    The Ang Moh from Hell
    Professional Photography - many are called, few are chosen!

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    wonder what camera is he using?
    he expects to learnt something within 2 months
    guess what...i took 1 year to lernt DOP
    WHATS TwO MOnTHS

  16. #16

    Default

    Originally posted by nicholas1986
    wonder what camera is he using?
    he expects to learnt something within 2 months
    guess what...i took 1 year to lernt DOP
    WHATS TwO MOnTHS
    err..... i think his 2 months refer to his chit chatting about HOW to take photo here. Dun think he've a camera yet

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  18. #18
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    I must say I agree to some extend of what Ian have said.

    You should be more pro-active if you want to learn.

    Judging that you have only 10 post in 2 months, I won't be surprise that you learn nothing.

    I'm a newbie myself. I started less than 2 months. My first outing with the great guys here is a week after I got my first digital camera(c700uz).

    You will not learn much if you just stay at home and read what ppl post. Rather you should come out with us for shootings or post questions here.

    From here, I got to know megaweb very well and been going out wif him on some trips and learnt a great deal from him. Thru him I also know a lot of people in this forum and channel dc&p.

    From the amount of post I've posted( i also started coming here ard 2 mths ago), you can see I've chalk up quite a large number of posting. Even you exclude all the crap post I post, even 10% will yield 70+ post.

    Now, I don't claim I am professional photographer.. but I can be at least proud enuf to claim I'm a photographer.

    Cheers..
    Canon Lover :)

  19. #19
    Senior Member zhapchit's Avatar
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    Default Re: im sorry, but... ...

    Originally posted by halfagoodman

    i feel that throughout these 2 mths that i have been in clubsnap, i have learnt nothing. i came here with the hope of meeting some ppl who share the same ideals and establish a friendly contact with them. but sadly, i didnt find any.

    1/2

    erm, registered in march 2002? 2 mths?

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Re: im sorry, but... ...

    Originally posted by zhapchit



    erm, registered in march 2002? 2 mths?
    mayb he was reading b4 he reg

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