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Thread: About charges for being in photographic competition...

  1. #1
    Senior Member zoossh's Avatar
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    Default About charges for being in photographic competition...

    saw a competition that allows 10 photo submission per person but each photo submission cost US$4, so if you want to optimise your chance of winning, that will cost you US$40 for your entry.

    is that the norm in competitions?

  2. #2

    Default Re: About charges for being in photographic competition...

    I've seen similar in various competitions, in different industries, in different countries.

    Seems it happens in many places. Why do you ask?

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    Senior Member zoossh's Avatar
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    Default Re: About charges for being in photographic competition...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dream Merchant View Post
    I've seen similar in various competitions, in different industries, in different countries.

    Seems it happens in many places. Why do you ask?
    cos i didn't know that...

  4. #4

    Default Re: About charges for being in photographic competition...

    Ah...well, I've seen it happen first (IIRC) back from the late 80s or early 90s in the USA mainly at high level competitions where awards usually spell a significant reason to demand a promotion and higher salary, and I guess SEA picked up on it much later.

    The concept of 'paying' for an increased number of chances to win is not new. It's been there all the while in the guise of lotteries and lucky draws.

    I guess some people think there might be something unethical about it, but the way it's generally viewed, it's only unethical if one party can out-buy opportunity more than another, or if the level of payment or purchases leverages an unfair advantage that may not be readily available to all interested.
    Last edited by Dream Merchant; 21st July 2008 at 02:33 AM.

  5. #5

    Default Re: About charges for being in photographic competition...

    such is the case all along in international salon, where there is a admin charge (abt usd10-15). and such competition dun hand out any prizes or cash. for the money, u can submit 4 entries and receive a catalog of winning entries at the end.

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    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: About charges for being in photographic competition...

    OT abit,

    I remember many many many years ago, a local professional photographers association holding a annual exhibition for their members, since at that time the association is still very new, didn't limit how many pieces of works for each member able to summit for the exhibition.

    One photographer take this opportunity, summit many pieces of his work for that year exhibition, turn a group exhibition become his own solo exhibition.
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  7. #7

    Default Re: About charges for being in photographic competition...

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    OT abit,

    I remember many many many years ago, a local professional photographers association holding a annual exhibition for their members, since at that time the association is still very new, didn't limit how many pieces of works for each member able to summit for the exhibition.

    One photographer take this opportunity, summit many pieces of his work for that year exhibition, turn a group exhibition become his own solo exhibition.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: About charges for being in photographic competition...

    Some competitions can cost as much as USD$10-20 per entry and there isn't any so called market rate really. In some cases, there is a limit on the number of entries you can submit to the organisation in a year.

    The competitions that I find are FOC in Singapore are usually an avenue for getting photos for a song for their own commercial use, ie, you'll noticed in their clauses things like "organisers reserves the right to the image anyhow, anywhere, anytime, on unlimited media, including those that might be invented in future throughout the universe". And all of us know, loading fees alone for commercial photography probably cost more than all the prize money. The way these folks do things here, is so darn cheap really.

  9. #9
    Senior Member zoossh's Avatar
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    Default Re: About charges for being in photographic competition...

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    OT abit,

    I remember many many many years ago, a local professional photographers association holding a annual exhibition for their members, since at that time the association is still very new, didn't limit how many pieces of works for each member able to summit for the exhibition.

    One photographer take this opportunity, summit many pieces of his work for that year exhibition, turn a group exhibition become his own solo exhibition.
    isn't it up to the organiser to select the works for exhibition??

  10. #10
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: About charges for being in photographic competition...

    Quote Originally Posted by zoossh View Post
    isn't it up to the organiser to select the works for exhibition??
    as a member, I was shock to see this, how can it end up this way, I'm not in position to say anything.

    anyway, at that time, the association is still very new, need alot supports from all it members, someone just take this opportunity to give his FULLY supports to the exhibition.
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  11. #11
    Senior Member zoossh's Avatar
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    Default Re: About charges for being in photographic competition...

    Quote Originally Posted by canturn View Post
    Some competitions can cost as much as USD$10-20 per entry and there isn't any so called market rate really. In some cases, there is a limit on the number of entries you can submit to the organisation in a year.

    The competitions that I find are FOC in Singapore are usually an avenue for getting photos for a song for their own commercial use, ie, you'll noticed in their clauses things like "organisers reserves the right to the image anyhow, anywhere, anytime, on unlimited media, including those that might be invented in future throughout the universe". And all of us know, loading fees alone for commercial photography probably cost more than all the prize money. The way these folks do things here, is so darn cheap really.
    but how often is gullible amateurs able to produce professional level works? i'm not implying anything as i truely didn't know the vast world outside. but i know for my works they are far below many in the bigger world outside cs (many good ones either seldom/dun post here, or dun even come into cs). sometimes i walk around the town seeing some exhibits, and there can be two kind of response to the standard of the entries... either "wow, i'm never be able to do that"... or "good takes. but i see better ones on the forum."

    now if i presume the competition of certain standard, then i would expect the top three to be classics. i have no classics, nothing that i can say hey, that stands out a winner, while decent shots, there is quite a number. i'll be happy enough to win one of the lower consolation prices, if lucky enough. but the competition states no such things. only D60 as the third price.

    now US$40 but almost 100% no chance of winning anything, i'm not sure if i'm really stingy (very likely i am). maybe keeping that for my next lens purchase of sigma 30mm f/1.4 or the next travel may be better. better be down to earth doing the practical stuff.

    by the way, the competition is from singapore international photography festival. sounds very prestigious right?... must have some very solid entries. think better be the spectator.
    http://am.sipf.com.sg/
    Last edited by zoossh; 21st July 2008 at 11:17 AM.

  12. #12
    Senior Member zoossh's Avatar
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    Default Re: About charges for being in photographic competition...

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    as a member, I was shock to see this, how can it end up this way, I'm not in position to say anything.

    anyway, at that time, the association is still very new, need alot supports from all it members, someone just take this opportunity to give his FULLY supports to the exhibition.
    do u mean that there isn't many who submit their entries but since one photographer submit many (i supposed are good shots too), the organiser took all of them and display them??

  13. #13
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: About charges for being in photographic competition...

    Quote Originally Posted by zoossh View Post
    do u mean that there isn't many who submit their entries but since one photographer submit many (i supposed are good shots too), the organiser took all of them and display them??
    yes, maybe at that time everyone is shy shy, or very busy. I dare not to show any photos, since I just a nobody at that time.
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  14. #14
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: About charges for being in photographic competition...

    btw, I still a nobody at this time....
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  15. #15

    Default Re: About charges for being in photographic competition...

    Quote Originally Posted by canturn View Post
    The competitions that I find are FOC in Singapore are usually an avenue for getting photos for a song for their own commercial use, ie, you'll noticed in their clauses things like "organisers reserves the right to the image anyhow, anywhere, anytime, on unlimited media, including those that might be invented in future throughout the universe". And all of us know, loading fees alone for commercial photography probably cost more than all the prize money. The way these folks do things here, is so darn cheap really.
    Yeah, Pro-Imaging has a Bill of Rights to try to educate photographers and hopefully shame organizers to do the right thing :
    The Bill of Rights for Photography Competitions
    http://www.pro-imaging.org/content/view/177/132/1/1/

  16. #16
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    Default Re: About charges for being in photographic competition...

    Quote Originally Posted by zoossh View Post
    but how often is gullible amateurs able to produce professional level works? i'm not implying anything as i truely didn't know the vast world outside. but i know for my works they are far below many in the bigger world outside cs (many good ones either seldom/dun post here, or dun even come into cs). sometimes i walk around the town seeing some exhibits, and there can be two kind of response to the standard of the entries... either "wow, i'm never be able to do that"... or "good takes. but i see better ones on the forum."

    now if i presume the competition of certain standard, then i would expect the top three to be classics. i have no classics, nothing that i can say hey, that stands out a winner, while decent shots, there is quite a number. i'll be happy enough to win one of the lower consolation prices, if lucky enough. but the competition states no such things. only D60 as the third price.

    now US$40 but almost 100% no chance of winning anything, i'm not sure if i'm really stingy (very likely i am). maybe keeping that for my next lens purchase of sigma 30mm f/1.4 or the next travel may be better. better be down to earth doing the practical stuff.

    by the way, the competition is from singapore international photography festival. sounds very prestigious right?... must have some very solid entries. think better be the spectator.
    http://am.sipf.com.sg/

    Few points to note, and sorry if I do OT a litte:

    1. You don't have to be professional to produce kick-ass images. A professional is one who does it for a living, and doesn't mean non-professional produces inferior shots that can't be used commercially.

    2. Despite these onerous clauses, some professionals still take part in these competitions. There was a recent one which I must have turned down at least 3 clients who asked me to shoot for them so that they can use the image for competition.

    3. If you're going to create images for competition, you should be gunning for the top, after all the effort you've put in. You'll never know what the judges are looking at for.

  17. #17

    Default Re: About charges for being in photographic competition...

    the purpose of imposing a fee for every image can serve 2 purposes:

    1. encourage the photographer to be critical of his own work

    2. discourage ppl from submitting "inferior" work, jus to try their luck

    imagine an free online competition (unlike submitting prints, which cost $$$) w attractive prizes. i am sure the response will be "over-whelming".

    one potential problem will be instead of choosing the winning entries, the judges will be busy weeding out the poor ones. such culling can cause good photos to be removed early in the competition.

    as for choosing between:

    1. entering the competition
    2. going on a tour
    3. getting a new lens

    why not survive on bread, on alternate days, for a yr and do all 3 ?
    Last edited by attap seed; 21st July 2008 at 09:16 PM.

  18. #18
    Senior Member zoossh's Avatar
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    Default Re: About charges for being in photographic competition...

    Quote Originally Posted by canturn View Post
    discourage ppl from submitting "inferior" work
    yup. i think purpose fulfilled in my case.

    Quote Originally Posted by canturn View Post
    3. If you're going to create images for competition, you should be gunning for the top, after all the effort you've put in. You'll never know what the judges are looking at for.
    it is a travel photography competition. such trips can't be rushed, unless one is doing salon type shots where things are planned out and rely less on luck and surprise.

    as for what the judges are looking for... if i presume they are really after real travel photographs and not for specific commerical purposes, they would be looking for something symbolic, original and aesthetically appealing.
    Last edited by zoossh; 22nd July 2008 at 02:15 AM.

  19. #19
    Senior Member zoossh's Avatar
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    Default Re: About charges for being in photographic competition...

    Quote Originally Posted by attap seed View Post
    as for choosing between:

    1. entering the competition
    2. going on a tour
    3. getting a new lens

    why not survive on bread, on alternate days, for a yr and do all 3 ?
    i can only do good photographs in good mood and well being...

    i'm not sure about that... does most forumers really cut down on daily expenses so as to get their dream lens?? i often see that being said, but i dunno how often it is being practised.

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