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Thread: DSLR prices are going down down down

  1. #21
    Senior Member zhapchit's Avatar
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  2. #22
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    Originally posted by Larry
    but then no amt of USM will save an out of focus image...
    Yep.

    Originally posted by YSLee
    nothing like a good heart pain to deliever a lesson that is remembered. Sad to say few share this sentiment.
    I get heart pain whenever I do a trashy shot on my Coolpix. And sometimes still so thick-skin to post it up.... heheheheheh.

    But to each their own. No point surfacing another digital vs film as its an endless story. Similarly dinky prosumer digicam vs SLR+L/ED lens.

  3. #23
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    Well if DSLR price really drop to a 'acceptable' level, no harm for newbie learning with it.

    Film SLR or Prosumer also can learn, just that One must be AWARE of the what you can learn from every shot.

    Just don't go too extreme on both ends:-

    Shooting film, must 'save' every shot, so never shoot new angles/compositions to learn from it.

    Shooting digital, no need money, anyhow shoot, come back post-process with so MANY photos...


    I'm still pushing and discovering the limit of my equipment, be it digital, SLR or point n shoots (like mjuII)

    My advice: have a camera with you always, you never know when you will need it. (HP camera dont't count )

  4. #24
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    Originally posted by FLiNcHY

    Fast forward back to singapore, my dad got back and instantly uploaded his photos onto the computer and they turned out nice and good. So he printed those meant with his collegue in them. His collegue on the other hand only handed him his photos days after they returned to singapore and the photos were really really bad.
    This has got nothing to do with whether film or digital would give u better photos or you would learn better with either one.

    It simply means that your dad's colleague would still produce lousy pics cos he's not good (even if you were to pass him a digital camera). Period.

  5. #25

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    Originally posted by lavenderlilz
    This has got nothing to do with whether film or digital would give u better photos or you would learn better with either one.

    It simply means that your dad's colleague would still produce lousy pics cos he's not good (even if you were to pass him a digital camera). Period.




  6. #26
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    Flinchy, your reasoning is flawed and you know it.

    Have the good grace to admit and conced instead of going on and on. All you will eventually do is to take away your own sense of credibility.

    Go shoot some rolls of film and maybe you'll uderstand what everyone is trying to tell you. If you have already done so, and still don't grasp what everyone is trying to say, then it's quite pointless to continue embarassing yourself any further.

    I don't think we need to insult your intelligence by telling you what you already know...

    Go figure.
    --
    "High Wired, Dream Sired"

  7. #27

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    The day when DSLR prices meet current SLR prices is coming..... But when?

  8. #28

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    Originally posted by Flinchy
    Looks like i'll be in for a major heart pain if i do use a film slr. But then again, that's what digital camera's are for. To take away all that frustration.
    That's cuz you've probably never used a film SLR. Given the sophistication of the metering system these days its rather difficult to screw up your shots exposure-wise unless its a really difficult lighting situation. As for being frustrated...yes I understand most people would be very eager to see their shots immediately after exposure. I would too. But as a film user I live with and accept that limitation. And as a non-professional, its not really a big deal to me.

    Fast forward back to singapore, my dad got back and instantly uploaded his photos onto the computer and they turned out nice and good. So he printed those meant with his collegue in them. His collegue on the other hand only handed him his photos days after they returned to singapore and the photos were really really bad.
    Sounds like more of an issue of the person behind the camera. Then again it could be the lab....then again it could be a thousand and one factors...and I'm really not to sure what you mean by "good" and "bad" without seeing any pictures to substantiate those criterion.

    Now, is it a matter of choosing to stick to the old ways of photography or to embrace technology, forget the basics and just get on with shooting and accepting that a good result can be achieved with little skill?
    Nope...the fundamentals behind taking good photographs will always be there, despite what technology can do for us. It'll be quite sad the day the camera composes the pictures for us while all we have to do is trigger the shutter. When that day comes....I'll start clubbing.

    Just like the driving of cars nowadays. People are learning how to drive automatically rather than starting with the basic fundamentals in manual. I know for singapore its still manual but in other places, the fundamental part of learning has been skipped and people just need to learn how to drive automatic.
    As above, despite having 2 systems of opearting a car, the fundamentals of driving a car (eg steering, estimation etc etc) still holds no matter what kind of car you drive.

    And everyone's happy with just automatic because it's so much easier and less work needs to be done. We are the slaves of laziness.
    Yup. But laziness won't get you pictures, no matter how cool or sate-of-the-art your camera is.
    Last edited by BraveHart; 11th July 2003 at 10:04 PM.

  9. #29
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    Originally posted by Snowcrash
    Film SLR or Prosumer also can learn, just that One must be AWARE of the what you can learn from every shot.
    That's for sure.

    Originally posted by Snowcrash
    Shooting film, must 'save' every shot, so never shoot new angles/compositions to learn from it.
    Shooting digital, no need money, anyhow shoot, come back post-process with so MANY photos...
    This is not necessarily the case. Just a matter of self-discipline, if that is a harsher description. I've seen film shooters who compose on the fly. And digital (prosumer-class) shooters who do likewise. Same goes for laziness....

    My advice: have a camera with you always, you never know when you will need it.
    Haha. YES! But make sure its armed and ready to shoot (film/CF/batts)! I missed a cute kid just cuz my batts were flat....

  10. #30

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    Originally posted by lavenderlilz
    It simply means that your dad's colleague would still produce lousy pics cos he's not good (even if you were to pass him a digital camera). Period.
    I beg to differ. Such is the ease of use of a digital camera that if it were to just be used as a point and shoot camera, satisfactory results can be achieved by virtually anyone.
    But if u give a SLR camera to anyone, not everyone will be able to achieve satisfactory results.

    Wolfgang, that was my intended point. I was not trying to force anyone to accept my views nor talking in an inflammatory tone.

    Why is it everytime i try to just give my views, i get greeted by a reply of cynicism from you?

    I'm just saying that digital photography fast forwards the process of learning photography itself. Comparing it to learning how to drive automatic these days and learning to drive manual in the past.

  11. #31

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    Originally posted by BraveHart
    That's cuz you've probably never used a film SLR. Given the sophistication of the metering system these days its rather difficult to screw up your shots exposure-wise unless its a really difficult lighting situation. As for being frustrated...yes I understand most people would be very eager to see their shots immediately after exposure. I would too. But as a film user I live with and accept that limitation. And as a non-professional, its not really a big deal to me.



    Sounds like more of an issue of the person behind the camera. Then again it could be the lab....then again it could be a thousand and one factors...and I'm really not to sure what you mean by "good" and "bad" without seeing any pictures to substantiate those criterion.



    Nope...the fundamentals behind taking good photographs will always be there, despite what technology can do for us. It'll be quite sad the day the camera composes the pictures for us while all we have to do is trigger the shutter. When that day comes....I'll start clubbing.



    As above, despite having 2 systems of opearting a car, the fundamentals of driving a car (eg steering, estimation etc etc) still holds no matter what kind of car you drive.



    Yup. But laziness won't get you pictures, no matter how cool or sate-of-the-art your camera is.
    Your views however, are not those shared by the general public. The average joe on the street will marvel at the vastly improved picture quality of the digital camera as compared to his old film point and shoot camera.
    The average joe will be amazed at the speed in which he can view his photos
    The average joe will realise that it is actually possible to edit his photos to make them look better
    The average joe will realise that he can take an almost unlimited amount of photos, now that he does not need to buy rows and rows of film to take his photos and spend money developing them to find that some of his pics turn out bad.
    The average joe is not searching for the perfect shot, he just wants to take photos.

    These factors will make the average joe switch to a digital cam.
    Just like driving, technology has made photo taking a much easier task, producing better results with lesser effort.

  12. #32
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    Originally posted by Azure



    This is not necessarily the case. Just a matter of self-discipline, if that is a harsher description. I've seen film shooters who compose on the fly. And digital (prosumer-class) shooters who do likewise. Same goes for laziness....

    Hey Azure, don't misquote me, The sentence before that:

    "Just don't go too extreme on both ends:-"

    Just to clarify.

  13. #33

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    Originally posted by FLiNcHY
    Your views however, are not those shared by the general public. The average joe on the street will marvel at the vastly improved picture quality of the digital camera as compared to his old film point and shoot camera.
    The average joe will be amazed at the speed in which he can view his photos
    The average joe will realise that it is actually possible to edit his photos to make them look better
    The average joe will realise that he can take an almost unlimited amount of photos, now that he does not need to buy rows and rows of film to take his photos and spend money developing them to find that some of his pics turn out bad.
    The average joe is not searching for the perfect shot, he just wants to take photos.

    These factors will make the average joe switch to a digital cam.
    Just like driving, technology has made photo taking a much easier task, producing better results with lesser effort.
    Hrm... sounds like it's time you should try holding a film slr...

  14. #34

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    Originally posted by FLiNcHY
    I beg to differ. Such is the ease of use of a digital camera that if it were to just be used as a point and shoot camera, satisfactory results can be achieved by virtually anyone.
    But if u give a SLR camera to anyone, not everyone will be able to achieve satisfactory results.
    me beg to differ .....

    uzing a DC az a P&S doeznt mean that u can get satizfactory rezultz all the time .....

    juzt my TCW .....


  15. #35

    Talking

    Originally posted by FLiNcHY
    Your views however, are not those shared by the general public. The average joe on the street will marvel at the vastly improved picture quality of the digital camera as compared to his old film point and shoot camera.
    The average joe will be amazed at the speed in which he can view his photos
    The average joe will realise that it is actually possible to edit his photos to make them look better
    The average joe will realise that he can take an almost unlimited amount of photos, now that he does not need to buy rows and rows of film to take his photos and spend money developing them to find that some of his pics turn out bad.
    The average joe is not searching for the perfect shot, he just wants to take photos.

    These factors will make the average joe switch to a digital cam.
    Just like driving, technology has made photo taking a much easier task, producing better results with lesser effort.
    then ..... ?? .....


  16. #36

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    recently i got my hands on a dslr.. 10d
    spent a whole day shooting with it intensively for some job
    and i have to say

    I MISS MY FILM POINT N SHOOT!
    i use an excellent pentax espio 140m and i think i can do miracles with it as compared to the dslr.

    ive used film and digital slr and compact pns
    i feel that as a beginner.. i love film
    i agree that nothing will ever beat the quality of film. its impossible to recreate or replace the kind of supreme quality from film. but film lies in the hand of many other stops before coming back to u in prints. the developing? the printing? the kind of lost comes in the form of digital recreation. i would go for digital for the fact that its cheaper in developing. nothing more. but i much rather learn darkroom processes and eliminate the risk in involving other people in the creation of my art :P and it wont be that much more expensive and theres NO EXCUSE for bad photographs in the future

    if a photographer is good, even a broken point and shoot can be better than the best DSLR in the wrong hands. *shrugs*

  17. #37

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    Originally posted by FLiNcHY
    Your views however, are not those shared by the general public. The average joe on the street will marvel at the vastly improved picture quality of the digital camera as compared to his old film point and shoot camera.
    The average joe will be amazed at the speed in which he can view his photos
    The average joe will realise that it is actually possible to edit his photos to make them look better
    The average joe will realise that he can take an almost unlimited amount of photos, now that he does not need to buy rows and rows of film to take his photos and spend money developing them to find that some of his pics turn out bad.
    The average joe is not searching for the perfect shot, he just wants to take photos.

    These factors will make the average joe switch to a digital cam.
    Just like driving, technology has made photo taking a much easier task, producing better results with lesser effort.
    I agree, so if you want to stay at the level of competency of an average joe can obtain, you're by all means welcome to wallow in the depths of mediocrity.

  18. #38
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    I love all my CANON cams... Be it Point n Shoot Digicam, SLR or DSLR... Muack muack...

    Its all within the photographer... if they r gd means they r gd... dun blame on cameras... LOL

    I've seen work from a DSLR and a normal PS digicam.. its lies wif e SKILLS... not e camera...

  19. #39

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    Originally posted by YSLee
    I agree, so if you want to stay at the level of competency of an average joe can obtain, you're by all means welcome to wallow in the depths of mediocrity.
    You fail to understand that the population that own digital cameras do not compose fully of photography savvy individuals such as yourself.

    For every photo savvy individual like you, there are 10 average joes who choose to purchase that cheap fujifinepix A100, or nikon 2500 because my above mentioned reasons have appealed to their needs.

    With little photography knowledge, only knowing how to point and shoot, yet able to get better results than what they would have gotten with their old film cameras (not talking solely abt SLR).

    That in itself is reason enough to go digital.

  20. #40
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    Originally posted by FLiNcHY
    You fail to understand that the population that own digital cameras do not compose fully of photography savvy individuals such as yourself.

    For every photo savvy individual like you, there are 10 average joes who choose to purchase that cheap fujifinepix A100, or nikon 2500 because my above mentioned reasons have appealed to their needs.

    With little photography knowledge, only knowing how to point and shoot, yet able to get better results than what they would have gotten with their old film cameras (not talking solely abt SLR).

    That in itself is reason enough to go digital.
    hmmm i'm afraid i'll have to disagree with you about that...

    digital technology hasn't made it easier for the average Joe to take better photos. the only difference i see is the medium - meaning it's digital 'film' now and not negative/slide film. there isn't any extra technology in digital that makes for better photos (other than arguably instant review and variable ISO). the same technology used to measure exposure is still there - same metering modes, same auto settings, same type of optics...

    e.g. if i were to give 2 people a digital cam (say, a Fuji A100) and a film PnS like a Yashica T Zoom (also cheap and good), i dare say the results would be the same. a blurred shot in the A100 would probably be a blurred shot in the Yashica T Zoom, while a beautifully exposed pix using the A100 would also be similarly taken with the Yashica.

    point is, for every nice shot taken with a digicam, there is a equally gorgeous shot taken with a film PnS. i'll accede though that people are generally more willing to try and experiment with digicams than film cams.

    i think that's what every1 is trying to say here. a crappy shot would still be a crappy shot regardless of equipment used... no need to be defensive. it's just a difference in viewpoint.

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