The future of 1.6X body and EFS lenses

[muvouser]

Prices are coming down for full frame cameras.

What is the future of our 1.6X cropped sensor camera, and conversely the value of EFS lenses?

Will we be seeing full frame camera as the norm specs for consumers soon? (ie. $2000 body FF body)

[MarkTan89]

I think they would just get cheaper and cheaper so more and more people can easily join the DSLR fray

[twnll]

1.6X for PnS, 1.3X for Amateur and Prosumer DSLR, FF for Advanced Prosumer and Pro cameras

[Rockyboy]

Originally Posted by twnll 1.6X for PnS, 1.3X for Amateur and Prosumer DSLR, FF for Advanced Prosumer and Pro cameras

1.6x for pns ... wow..

[gryphon]

Originally Posted by twnll 1.6X for PnS, 1.3X for Amateur and Prosumer DSLR, FF for Advanced Prosumer and Pro cameras

1.6X for PnS, then PnS will be very fat cameras

[Benosaurous]

Originally Posted by twnll 1.6X for PnS, 1.3X for Amateur and Prosumer DSLR, FF for Advanced Prosumer and Pro cameras

lol for dslr to replace PnS, that will never happen, no matter how cheap they are. Because the PnS community are those who are self image conscious, they only want something portable, easy to use, and most importantly look nice on them, the quality wise is their least priority.

But cheaper APS-C means more people who are interested into photography coming into the market, that means $$$$ for canon. Though what i will really suggest to them, is to make a very light and portable (size wise) dslr (1000D is not close enough), they can tune down all the specs, this is to attract the ladies. Even 450D is heavy and bulky for them, thats what my female friends said.

[m3lv1nh0]

I think soon everyone that has a slight interest in photography would be able to afford a DSLR. I can imagine going to a wedding where half of the guest is using DSLR to shoot the couple. Than groom will come here to complaint that the guest's picture is nicer than the main photographer..

[mismis]

Originally Posted by gryphon 1.6X for PnS, then PnS will be very fat cameras

The Sigma DP-1 is already using an SLR sensor.

I think Sigma's idea is brilliant, just that the DP1 could have been executed alot better. Maybe the likes of canon to implement the idea into a better final product

[KY1977]

I think ppl will not stop at FF by then. MF will be in trend next.

[Snoweagle]

Originally Posted by mismis The Sigma DP-1 is already using an SLR sensor. I think Sigma's idea is brilliant, just that the DP1 could have been executed alot better. Maybe the likes of canon to implement the idea into a better final product

It's not. The DP-1's sensor is smaller than an APS-C sized sensor.

[kiwi2]

I foresee that 1.6x crop sensors are here to stay for a very significantly long time, and hence, EF-S lenses also.

Contrary to what most think, I think FF cams are still expensive. It's just that consumers these days perhaps have become richer or are more willing to burn their pockets on gadgets.(think how many times a typical Singaporean changes his cellphone whether he really needs it or not)

A rough "my own" gauge I use to check on what is "FF affordable" is to compare DSLR prices with those back when film SLR cams were alive. For $1.5k or so, you can get a solid semi-pro to pro EOS3. FF DSLRs are clearly not there yet. Even the present, more expensive and outdated 5D is no where in comparison to the robust nature and built of the cheaper EOS3.

If FF cam prices are dropping, then consequently, prices of crop-sensor cams will drop even further. There is always a market for hobbyists out there to invest in them rather than FF. For eg, if one day, perhaps in 8 or more years time, a brand new, just released FF cam hits around $2k, an APS-C cam may cost close to only $600 or so. Surely there's a market for them.

Hobbyists and some advanced amateurs may not want to pay more than 3 times the price for FF. It also gives them the "consumer psychology" to readily change camera bodies often without feeling the pinch. That's good marketing IMHO. There'll also probably be a lot more EF-S lenses being produced that will give excellent image quality in addition to being more affordable.

[unseen]

It'll only be a matter of time before Canon allows 1.6x lenses on full frame bodies.
Look at nikon's brilliant implementation. With one brilliant stroke they enabled 100% backward compatibility.

[CanonS3IS]

Seriously, there is no need for anyone to be alarmed or even interested in this topic. Canon will never drop off their 1.6, 1.3 crop series and their EFS counter parts. Reason being is that no matter how attractive full frames are, the 1.6x are still much appreciated by bird shooters and other tele (animal) lovers. having said that full frame will be the preferred camera type for portrait and landscape shooters.

As for the EFS range, their future seems optimistic as well.... this lenses provide canon marketing opportunities for economic lenses without branding them "L" and therefore non competing with the "L" line. good examples include 17-55 EFS which has price worthy of an "L" but because its an EFS lens, "pro" shooters might avoid it altogther and therefore canon has an opportunity to release an "L" in time to come..... (Tough being a canongrapher.....)

All the above are just my 2 cents....

[CYRN]

Originally Posted by twnll 1.6X for PnS, 1.3X for Amateur and Prosumer DSLR, FF for Advanced Prosumer and Pro cameras

Originally Posted by Rockyboy 1.6x for pns ... wow..

Originally Posted by gryphon 1.6X for PnS, then PnS will be very fat cameras

Originally Posted by Snoweagle It's not. The DP-1's sensor is smaller than an APS-C sized sensor.

Didn't P&S used to be 1.0x

[CYRN]

Originally Posted by unseen It'll only be a matter of time before Canon allows 1.6x lenses on full frame bodies. Look at nikon's brilliant implementation. With one brilliant stroke they enabled 100% backward compatibility.

That is, if they can prevent the mirror from hitting the rear element of EF-S lenses.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by CYRN Didn't P&S used to be 1.0x

YES YES but they were a fair bit bigger... the small trend was started by APS cameras... but it is possible to make a 1.6x crop PnS that is smallish, but it will need to be thicker than the current crop of 25mm thick cameras with 1/2.5" sensors, and I think they will be about 35-40mm thick, unless they use a mirror arrangement.

[Russ]

When I bought a EOS 1000F with 35-80 lens in 1992, it cost $500 with lens. The EOS-1 in mid 1990s was about $2,500. Is that how low DSLRs will be in the future? - don't forget inflation... but then the Canon AV-1 in 1980 was about $500 too ....

I think in 3 years' time:
- Tiny PnS will still be around, costing $300-600
- Prosumer PnS such as the G9 or higher end Nikons et al will be no more - they used to
cater to serious amatuers who could not afford DSLRs but by then you just buy a DSLR
- Entry level APS-C DSLRs will be $600-800
- More advanced APS-C DSLRs will be $900-1,200
- FF DSLRs will be $1,500-2,000
- Pro FF DSLRs will be $2,500-3,000 (1Ds category)
- 1.3x DLSRs (EOS 1D series is about the only one around) may just be squeezed out, especially with the Nikon approach

[cosycatus]

beg to differ.......

Originally Posted by Russ When I bought a EOS 1000F with 35-80 lens in 1992, it cost $500 with lens. The EOS-1 in mid 1990s was about $2,500. Is that how low DSLRs will be in the future? - don't forget inflation... but then the Canon AV-1 in 1980 was about $500 too .... I think in 3 years' time: - Tiny PnS will still be around, costing $300-600 Latest range from nikon already at $199 boasting specs that cost $600-$800 just 2-3 years ago. - Prosumer PnS such as the G9 or higher end Nikons et al will be no more - they used to cater to serious amatuers who could not afford DSLRs but by then you just buy a DSLR It will still be there...infact, i think this is a growth segment. A prosumer does everything from parties to travels to fitting into a small bag so i can shoot everywhere. I can even shoot macro with it. I really dun like to use SLRS except for work. When i am having fun, i dun like heavy stuff on my hands. Image one day, u have a good 10 megapixels camera with exceptional noise control ( maybe 20d level), the zoom is threaded ( instead of a W-T button), AF is damn fast ( or maybe range finder style)...and with the small sensor, lens is a F2.0-F3.0 like the old G and series and it's small to fit into a pouch...would you be entice to get it? i will. We are seeing variants of it...( like GX100, P50, G9) but currently this are still not good enough. Given it a few more years... - Entry level APS-C DSLRs will be $600-800 already at that level le.... - More advanced APS-C DSLRs will be $900-1,200 and already AT that level le. - FF DSLRs will be $1,500-2,000 pray it will hit that level - Pro FF DSLRs will be $2,500-3,000 (1Ds category) dun bet on it... - 1.3x DLSRs (EOS 1D series is about the only one around) may just be squeezed out, especially with the Nikon approach

[maswu]

Originally Posted by CanonS3IS .........Reason being is that no matter how attractive full frames are, the 1.6x are still much appreciated by bird shooters and other tele (animal) lovers. having said that full frame will be the preferred camera type for portrait and landscape shooters.

How come bird and animal shooters appreaciate 1.6x crop dslr? how does it help them?

[Benosaurous]

i will think Russ is nearer with his prediction, rather than working on prosumer range, nikon and canon will rather work on dslr, to make them much smaller, crippled them to be lower range but more stylish, lighter and smaller. And then produce smaller and lighter lens to fit the category, this will definitely bring them more sales (from selling lens) than having a better prosumer camera which cost around the same price as an entry dslr, (and doesnt generate more sales then)

pns range will keep between 400-600 especially the good ones, their quality may be up to compare with the prosumer, better iso, better optics but still as stylish (nikon is nowhere near, canon is somewhere there), light and portable. pns is all about easy to use and look nice, teens are willing to pay 600 for a stylish one with medicore functions than somewhich which looks kinda orbiang but good functions. (proven by casio exlim)

in short i feel the prosumer will be squeeze out of competition when the lighter and more portable dslr enter the market.