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Thread: BayBeats Photographer

  1. #81

    Default Re: BayBeats Photographer

    Quote Originally Posted by kormmandos View Post
    The Thread Starter received the information through EMAIL. The only expense born by Esplanade is the effort to craft the email.
    Esplanade being a non-profit organisation means that they have to be extra careful about their resources.
    It doesn't make monetary sense for them to pay photographers, professional or otherwise, for the gigs which are mostly public and free.
    In simple terms, Esplanade spends the money on a festival like this fully knowing that it will never ever break even, let alone make profit.
    The important thing for them is the increased patronage to justify that it is an event worth putting up every year for the visitors to enjoy.
    So if you don't like how money is spent, then advise all the people you know to stop betting on 4D, Toto, Score, etc from Singapore Pools since they fund Esplanade.
    It's cool about being public and free thingy... but why the rights thingy? Shouldn't photogs retain their rights?
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  2. #82

    Default Re: BayBeats Photographer

    hmmm oh i didn't know it was a non-profit organisation. always though it was a business. if thats the case then i guess it is alright. except the overarching rights part.

  3. #83

    Default Re: BayBeats Photographer

    being a non-profit organisation does not immediately absolve them of responsibility. non-profits are at the end of the day still run like businesses, just that profit-making is not their chief aim. they still got to balance their books at the end of the day, and i believe they PAY talented people to do that, as well as to handle the other aspects of their operation.

    i applaud their efforts in injecting life into the arts scene here, but frankly, these still escape me:

    1. photography seems to be a fringe concern on the minds of the organisers, and i qualify this by the fact that they seem to demanding free service + zero recognition. why is this so? if the event is properly documented then won't they have more fodder for publicity next year?

    2. the insidious clause that 'all rights of pics taken belong to esplanade'. some of the CSers earlier stated the possible legal wrangling that might arise if pics are floated around without any control. however, it seems that only one or a few would be chosen so can't they simply sit down with the photographer(s) after the event and come to an agreement on what can or cannot be displayed? sure, a legal minefield is involved here but if more effort had been taken, i'm very sure that concessions can be made as to the photographer claiming his due credit and being allowed to showcase his work (deservedly so).

    hell, i shoot for free for student (i am one) publications but the whole experience is treated as a collaborative effort and everyone benefits in the end due to the exposure gained and CREDIT received, as well as a nice boost to our portfolios. this spirit of collaboration seems to be what the organisers are trying to achieve, yet it appears that there is only a one-way street leading towards this realisation without just consideration to the all the parties involved.

    i don't know about you guys but this seems like a slap in the face for photography in this country. so, music is art and photography isn't? (ok, i couldn't help that ) beautiful irony.

    please realise that none of this is targeted at the TS, who has raised a very pertinent topic, though unintentionally.
    Last edited by changster; 2nd July 2008 at 04:46 PM.

  4. #84

    Default Re: BayBeats Photographer

    For information only.

    BayBeats website and collaterals are done by a company called Hex:

    http://www.hex.sg/selected_showcase/index.html

  5. #85

    Default Re: BayBeats Photographer

    I wonder if they reserve the rights to the songs performed as well.

  6. #86
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    Default Re: BayBeats Photographer

    Why do you guys keep jumping on no recognition etc. It's stated that credit will be given to the photographers.

    In exchange for the pass and the given credit, the photog gives up the rights to the image. It is up to him/her to decide if that is a reasonable enough deal. For the full-time professional, this would usually be an unacceptable scenario, one still needs $ to buy rice and pay the bills.

    But for the budding photog venturing into gig photography, this is a good opportunity to touch base with organisers, bands, people-that-matter, etc. Passes to shows don't come free (even though Baybeats in itself is a free event). Being able to shoot behind the barrier is a real luxury for gig photogs. The mosh pit can get really rowdy with a high chance of your equipment getting damaged somehow. The jostling will also compound your problems.

    To secure a paid job to shoot a gig... you first need that nice looking portfolio. How best to get that? Sneaking cams in, jostling with the crowd is one way to go. But a great majority of the magnificent shots come from behind the barrier. How to get there? You need a pass. Plain and simple.

  7. #87

    Default Re: BayBeats Photographer

    oh the mosh last year when A Vacant Affair performed was awesome. more than 50 bodies are flying around, arms swinging around aimlessly and peole jumping. you dont want to be in the center of the circle pit when that happens cause you'll get your cameras whacked.

    but with the pass, you'll get to be in front of the crowd and not with the masses.
    Last edited by escapologist; 2nd July 2008 at 11:07 PM.

  8. #88
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    Default Re: BayBeats Photographer

    Also just to add on... as far as baybeats go, no offence to organisers and supporters, it doesn't have value in terms of $ for photogs to begin with.

    No wire agency will want a photo of the largely unheard of local indie bands. The big music mags aren't interested. In a pinch, local mags like Lime might get interested. but if they do, they will send their own staff photog down with press credentials.

    So basically really, demanding to be paid for this sort of event hmmm... I think it might be pushing it a little. Get the experience. Get the contacts. So when the big names come into town... it would be easier to get in as a free-lancer if you know someone.

  9. #89

    Default Re: BayBeats Photographer

    Quote Originally Posted by escapologist View Post
    oh the mosh last year when A Vacant Affair performed was awesome. more than 50 bodies are flying around, arms swinging around aimlessly and peole jumping. you dont want to be in the center of the circle pit when that happens cause you'll get your cameras whacked.

    but with the pass, you'll get to be in front of the crowd and not with the masses.
    yep..i got caught in that very pit..was right up against the barrier..getting crushed..trying to breathe and snap at the same time..
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  10. #90
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    Default Re: BayBeats Photographer

    Ah... You should try getting drenched from head to toe by a fire hose like at some of the gigs I shot while overseas. That is why I seldom bother to bring my gear if I had not gotten a prior nod from the organisers and a proper pass.

    The mosh pit is no place for breakable objects!

  11. #91

    Default Re: BayBeats Photographer

    Quote Originally Posted by Yatlapball View Post
    Ah... You should try getting drenched from head to toe by a fire hose like at some of the gigs I shot while overseas. That is why I seldom bother to bring my gear if I had not gotten a prior nod from the organisers and a proper pass.

    The mosh pit is no place for breakable objects!
    Yup.. my 10 - 22mm lens cracked during a moshpit.. haha.. but im still going in despite that i knew somehow again my 10 - 22mm will crack or split into half. haha.

  12. #92

    Default Re: BayBeats Photographer

    Oh wow. It's getting hot in here, yea? I didn't expect that this thread is going to be so controversial. *sigh*

  13. #93

    Default Re: BayBeats Photographer

    Seriously, i didn't know that things were gonna be like this. I just thought that it would be nice to share it with everyone here.

    Quote Originally Posted by changster View Post
    please realise that none of this is targeted at the TS, who has raised a very pertinent topic, though unintentionally.

  14. #94

    Default Re: BayBeats Photographer

    I know how it's like. Been there, done that. It's a total mayhem!

    Quote Originally Posted by Am3thyst View Post
    yep..i got caught in that very pit..was right up against the barrier..getting crushed..trying to breathe and snap at the same time..

  15. #95

    Default Re: BayBeats Photographer

    I guess, that will be a bit too much. Hehe!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Aspect View Post
    I wonder if they reserve the rights to the songs performed as well.

  16. #96

    Default Re: BayBeats Photographer

    I can't imagine myself in that mosh pit trying hard to take a good shot. It's useless. I rather mosh with the crowd WITHOUT my camera than letting the crowd whack my camera.


    Quote Originally Posted by escapologist View Post
    oh the mosh last year when A Vacant Affair performed was awesome. more than 50 bodies are flying around, arms swinging around aimlessly and peole jumping. you dont want to be in the center of the circle pit when that happens cause you'll get your cameras whacked.

    but with the pass, you'll get to be in front of the crowd and not with the masses.

  17. #97

    Default Re: BayBeats Photographer

    Quote Originally Posted by Yatlapball View Post
    To secure a paid job to shoot a gig... you first need that nice looking portfolio. How best to get that? Sneaking cams in, jostling with the crowd is one way to go. But a great majority of the magnificent shots come from behind the barrier. How to get there? You need a pass. Plain and simple.
    Guys applying for the job, please do check that it's ok to use the photos in your own portfolio.

  18. #98
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    Default Re: BayBeats Photographer

    I find it very amusing that people still let large organisations like this walk all over them. Just because you charge doesnt mean you lack passion, and just because you have passion doesnt mean you should do it for free. So long as their are naive photographers, like pretty much everyone who thinks this is a good oppertunity and a great idea around, there will always be someone around to exploit you. I also agree that we cant stop people applying for such ridiculous 'jobs', its your own choice, but just stop and think about what your doing for one minute. This is only a good oppertunity for the esplanade, they get some free photos, and heck, some of them may even be good.

  19. #99
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    Default Re: BayBeats Photographer

    Quote Originally Posted by kormmandos View Post
    Esplanade being a non-profit organisation means that they have to be extra careful about their resources.
    They spent $13 million on the opening night alone a few years ago.

    You were saying something about being extra careful with their resources??

  20. #100
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    Default Re: BayBeats Photographer

    Simply put it: I don't want to pay and I want a good one. Go and don't come back until you meet my requirements.

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