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Thread: A challenge to all, to make our Portrait Forum second to none!

  1. #41
    Senior Member denniskee's Avatar
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    Default Re: A challenge to all, to make our Portrait Forum second to none!

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadpoet View Post
    Dennis ... you missed the point.

    Anyone can post any pictures of any themes/genre or any quality. At no time did I advocate that only better quality pictures should be posted. "Within reasons" has to do with nudity. Since this server is in Singapore, we have certain guidelines we have to adhere to.

    Pictures that can make it or cannot make it is not the question here. The posting of pictures will continue on just the same. The change is to ask the members to give honest feedback, comments, opinions and criticism.

    All too often, a series of pictures posted are clearly CMI. However, many here, will blindly go forth and shower praises.

    All these hypocritical comments, I surmise, is a key reasons why many of the better photographers are no longer posting.


    We, the members, must demonstrates that we know what is a good picture and what is a bad one. Praise the good pictures, criticize the the bad ones.

    Yes, we are trying to overcome cultural hurdles here. Who say it will be easy, especially if the goal is second to none.
    oh i c now what u mean, sorry i mis-understood.
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  2. #42
    Senior Member denniskee's Avatar
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    Default Re: A challenge to all, to make our Portrait Forum second to none!

    Quote Originally Posted by yanyewkay View Post
    just split the Portraits sections into "Beginner" and "Professional/Advance"

    Beginner: for all snapshots/learners wanting comments to improve. Critique corner isn't as good because photogs cannot post a series of photos but allowed only ONE photo. For those who cannot stand to see lousy snapshots or portraits can just skip this section.

    Professional/Advance: For all seasoned shooters who want to showcase their skills and works. Need not be "professionals" earning money from photography but can also be "Advanced" shooters who have good directorship over the models instead of the models "auto-posing" for them. Consolidated good quality works in here for all to drool over and give their 3 thumbsup.
    hi yk

    like that does it mean all other galleries subforum also should have 2 sections? i thought of this last night, but i feel no need to go to such extend for all, including protrait subforum.

    last time no critic corner, so there were unhappy csers would dont like their work to be commented and those who want their work to be critic dont get quality feedback. so critic corner was created so those who want their work to be critic can get honest feedback and for those who just want to share can post in the other subforum.
    Last edited by denniskee; 15th June 2008 at 11:03 AM.
    photography makes one sees things from all angles.

  3. #43
    Moderator nightwolf75's Avatar
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    Default Re: A challenge to all, to make our Portrait Forum second to none!

    Quote Originally Posted by yanyewkay View Post
    just split the Portraits sections into "Beginner" and "Professional/Advance"

    Beginner: for all snapshots/learners wanting comments to improve. Critique corner isn't as good because photogs cannot post a series of photos but allowed only ONE photo. For those who cannot stand to see lousy snapshots or portraits can just skip this section.

    Professional/Advance: For all seasoned shooters who want to showcase their skills and works. Need not be "professionals" earning money from photography but can also be "Advanced" shooters who have good directorship over the models instead of the models "auto-posing" for them. Consolidated good quality works in here for all to drool over and give their 3 thumbsup.
    interesting suggestion UK.

    *speaking as a normal CSer* - the way i see it, i rather people improve their comments. with the proliferation of cameras nowadays, it is inevitable that we also see the proliferation of wat we normally call XMM pics - just snaps of some pretty looking young things. can CS discourage it? heck... i think Moses had a easier time parting the Red Sea than to encourage people to put some thot into creating a pic...

    the problem is not with pics (the way i see it). rather it is the way comments are given. they are either saccharine or acerbic, without reason as to why. or, if reasons are given, they are given with such 'god'-like authority (that the person giving the comments are right) that no room for negotiation is given - it is 'my way or the highway' mentality. as someone pointed out earlier, if any form of rebuttal is given to the original commentor, it usually degenerates into another flamewar becos both parties think that the other is a moron. and then the moderator(s) step in, shut down the thread, give warnings/infractions to the parties involved... which then degenerate into yet-another 'the moderators/Admins are morons' angsty thread in kopitiam. so who 'wins' in the end? nobody. and CS, as a whole, is worse off in the end.

    a lot of seasoned pros, who once post and share their works and gave helpful comments to others, no longer post here. AFAIK from talking to some of them, they are sick of what CS has become due to the 'one-manupship' in giving comments. again, we are worse off becos those who really can shoot no longer share, leaving people like us groping in the dark as to how they did it.

    those who like to comment/critique, who can say they are good enuf to be an authority and paragon of skills/technique? CS is set up for people to learn and share from each other. that starts of giving helpful comments (not just high quality pics... else then wat is left to say, rite?), seasoned with salt, not acid. there are many ways to critique without either being mindlessly sweet or exceedingly acerbic. if you have nothing to say about the pic, then leave the pic alone. there are many others in other galleries to view and admire.
    Last edited by nightwolf75; 15th June 2008 at 10:57 AM.
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  4. #44
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    Default Re: A challenge to all, to make our Portrait Forum second to none!

    Quote Originally Posted by denniskee View Post
    hi yk

    like that does it mean all other galleries subforum also should have 2 sections? i thought of this last night, but i feel no need to go to such extend for all, including protrait subforum.

    last time no critic corner, so there were unhappy csers would dont like their work to be commented and those who want their work to be critic dont get quality feedback. so critic corner was created so those who want their work to be critic can get honest feedback and for those who just want to share can post in the other subforum.
    I don't think the other sections need it because photogs and commentors from the other sections have less trouble accepting comments as compared to potraits section.

    I believe it is largely due to the human factor involved.
    “How fortunate for leaders that men do not think.” - Adolf Hitler

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    Default Re: A challenge to all, to make our Portrait Forum second to none!

    Quote Originally Posted by nightwolf75 View Post
    CS is set up for people to learn and share from each other. that starts of giving helpful comments (not just high quality pics... else then wat is left to say, rite?), seasoned with salt, not acid. there are many ways to critique without either being mindlessly sweet or exceedingly acerbic. if you have nothing to say about the pic, then leave the pic alone. there are many others in other galleries to view and admire.
    I would surely like it to be that way
    “How fortunate for leaders that men do not think.” - Adolf Hitler

  6. #46

    Default Re: A challenge to all, to make our Portrait Forum second to none!

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadpoet View Post

    All too often, a series of pictures posted are clearly CMI. However, many here, will blindly go forth and shower praises.

    We, the members, must demonstrates that we know what is a good picture and what is a bad one. Praise the good pictures, criticize the the bad ones.
    I just want to add that the following are examples of absolutely pointless and stupid C&C:

    "Nice shot!" (How is it a nice shot?)
    "Nose bleed!" (No explanation needed.)
    "She looks auntie." (Let's use a universally understood term here, since this forum has visitors from the whole SEA region as well as Australia and others. FYI, I have aunties who are quite pretty, okay.)
    "This shot CMI lah." (How? It may be obvious to some but not to others, especially newbies.)

    The important questions are HOW and WHY. WHY do you say it's good/bad? HOW do you think it can be improved? Even if you don't have much expertise in the area, it's okay to toss your suggestions into the ring so that old dogs and newbies alike can comment, learn, and understand.
    Available as a model, photographer, and art director/stylist.

  7. #47
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    Default Re: A challenge to all, to make our Portrait Forum second to none!

    i think we just need to be more polite and courteous in our comments. you can criticize something as bad as you want, as long as you're being polite and respectful. that's one thing i like about some of the better forums i visit.

    i once told my boss his entire project was going in the wrong direction, and he took it well and we went on to work together to improve it, because i told him in a respectful and factual manner. you can get away with alot of things if you keep that in mind. heh heh.

    if everyone practises responsible posting and self-censorship, there's no need for mods at all. then the mods can concentrate on getting rid of spammers and enjoying themselves instead of having to act like adults in a chaotic playground full of brats. aren't we all sick of having some sort of governing authority in everything we do?

    my mother used to tell me, "if you have nothing good or useful to say, then don't say anything." i didn't always listen to her, but there are times i wish i had. so, can we make an effort to listen to my mother here?
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  8. #48

    Default Re: A challenge to all, to make our Portrait Forum second to none!

    Quote Originally Posted by yanyewkay View Post
    just split the Portraits sections into "Beginner" and "Professional/Advance"

    Beginner: for all snapshots/learners wanting comments to improve. Critique corner isn't as good because photogs cannot post a series of photos but allowed only ONE photo. For those who cannot stand to see lousy snapshots or portraits can just skip this section.

    Professional/Advance: For all seasoned shooters who want to showcase their skills and works. Need not be "professionals" earning money from photography but can also be "Advanced" shooters who have good directorship over the models instead of the models "auto-posing" for them. Consolidated good quality works in here for all to drool over and give their 3 thumbsup.
    Bro, how come only have these 2 options? Me newbie how? Newbie is not even beginner leh.

    Anyway, then those who giving comments and critiques must be in the same level lor, if not, how can they give? Again, who will "label" them which level for them????????

    People, no one can please everybody lor but we can EVERYBODY LuB EVERYBODY!!! Respect is all we need.
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  9. #49

    Default Re: A challenge to all, to make our Portrait Forum second to none!

    Quote Originally Posted by antacid View Post
    i think we just need to be more polite and courteous in our comments. you can criticize something as bad as you want, as long as you're being polite and respectful. that's one thing i like about some of the better forums i visit.

    i once told my boss his entire project was going in the wrong direction, and he took it well and we went on to work together to improve it, because i told him in a respectful and factual manner. you can get away with alot of things if you keep that in mind. heh heh.

    if everyone practises responsible posting and self-censorship, there's no need for mods at all. then the mods can concentrate on getting rid of spammers and enjoying themselves instead of having to act like adults in a chaotic playground full of brats. aren't we all sick of having some sort of governing authority in everything we do?

    my mother used to tell me, "if you have nothing good or useful to say, then don't say anything." i didn't always listen to her, but there are times i wish i had. so, can we make an effort to listen to my mother here?
    ((=
    Human just like a mirror. Reflects what people react etc..... Of cos sometime there is some broken mirror lor as we know nothing is perfect in life, jsut too good to be true.
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  10. #50
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    Default Re: A challenge to all, to make our Portrait Forum second to none!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tupi Guy View Post
    Bro, how come only have these 2 options? Me newbie how? Newbie is not even beginner leh.

    Anyway, then those who giving comments and critiques must be in the same level lor, if not, how can they give? Again, who will "label" them which level for them????????

    People, no one can please everybody lor but we can EVERYBODY LuB EVERYBODY!!! Respect is all we need.
    those got win prize before one can only go into the Professional League...

    well, those who are guilty of doing the 'nice pics, nosebleed' stuff ain't here anyway... we can argue until the sun explode also same thing will happen again...

    Well, its good to share, but please be considerate to other ppl's eyes.

    [Save the EYES project 2008]

    oh ya, when u say everybody lub everybody hor, i got better one... Ironman, please drop your weapons and your defensive shield... Hulk, please change back to Bruce Banner... Then we won't have any war inside these sections already...
    Logging Off. "You have 2,631 messages stored, of a total 400 allowed." don't PM me.

  11. #51

    Default Re: A challenge to all, to make our Portrait Forum second to none!

    Quote Originally Posted by Del_CtrlnoAlt View Post
    those got win prize before one can only go into the Professional League...

    well, those who are guilty of doing the 'nice pics, nosebleed' stuff ain't here anyway... we can argue until the sun explode also same thing will happen again...

    Well, its good to share, but please be considerate to other ppl's eyes.

    [Save the EYES project 2008]

    oh ya, when u say everybody lub everybody hor, i got better one... Ironman, please drop your weapons and your defensive shield... Hulk, please change back to Bruce Banner... Then we won't have any war inside these sections already...
    Even those prize winner or "PrO", so what? It does mean what they say will be "right" or "wrong" it just a matter of where we standing from, right? Just like you have said, "we can argue until the sun explode also same thing will happen again..."
    Dreams at Photoaid! Contact me, pls!

  12. #52
    Senior Member Leong23's Avatar
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    Default Re: A challenge to all, to make our Portrait Forum second to none!

    If change, why stop at portrait section....other section also got a lot of CMI photo......

  13. #53
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    Default Re: A challenge to all, to make our Portrait Forum second to none!

    Soon we will see an hierarchy in CS.

    'Pro', 'Amateur' and 'Newbie'.....What about 'Maestro' ?

  14. #54
    Senior Member Sion's Avatar
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    Default Re: A challenge to all, to make our Portrait Forum second to none!

    Quote Originally Posted by Del_CtrlnoAlt View Post
    those got win prize before one can only go into the Professional League...
    Should go by monthly earnings.

    $50,000 and above - Super Pro
    $25,000 and above - Real Pro
    $10,000 and above - Active Pro
    $5,000 and above - Just Pro
    $1,000 and above - Also Pro

    Which category are you?

    Please produce income tax returns as proof.

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    Default Re: A challenge to all, to make our Portrait Forum second to none!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sion View Post
    Should go by monthly earnings.

    $50,000 and above - Super Pro
    $25,000 and above - Real Pro
    $10,000 and above - Active Pro
    $5,000 and above - Just Pro
    $1,000 and above - Also Pro

    Which category are you?

    Please produce income tax returns as proof.

    Me = 'Starving artist wannabe'

  16. #56
    Senior Member Sion's Avatar
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    Default Re: A challenge to all, to make our Portrait Forum second to none!

    Quote Originally Posted by nightwolf75 View Post
    CS is set up for people to learn and share from each other. that starts of giving helpful comments (not just high quality pics... else then wat is left to say, rite?), seasoned with salt, not acid. there are many ways to critique without either being mindlessly sweet or exceedingly acerbic. if you have nothing to say about the pic, then leave the pic alone. there are many others in other galleries to view and admire.
    Let these 3 words carved on the stone at the entrance leading to the steps to CS Temple in the high mountain:

    "Learn and Share"

    If we forget that then the blood the pineering CS Sifu have shed to fight for the spirit and freedom to learn and share will be all in vain.

    Remember Miyagi Sensei?

    "Miyagi: [he taps his head] Karate here.
    Miyagi: [he taps his heart] Karate here.
    Miyagi: [points to his belt] Karate never here. Understand?"

    So no need to want to be second to none as long as we treat fellow CS brothers with the purest of heart and the deepest sincerity, we are second to none already.
    Last edited by Sion; 15th June 2008 at 12:55 PM.

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    Default Re: A challenge to all, to make our Portrait Forum second to none!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sion View Post
    Let these 3 words carved on the stone at the entrance leading to the steps to CS Temple in the high mountain:

    "Learn and Share"

    If we forget that then the blood the pineering CS Sifu have shed to fight for the spirit and freedom to learn and share will be all in vain.

    Remember Miyagi Sensei?

    "Miyagi: [he taps his head] Karate here.
    Miyagi: [he taps his heart] Karate here.
    Miyagi: [points to his belt] Karate never here. Understand?"

    So no need to want to be second to none as long as we treat fellow CS brothers with the purest of heart and the deepest sincerity, we are second to none already.
    u got possessed? suddenly u not speaking like yourself...
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  18. #58
    Senior Member Sion's Avatar
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    Default Re: A challenge to all, to make our Portrait Forum second to none!

    Quote Originally Posted by Del_CtrlnoAlt View Post
    u got possessed? suddenly u not speaking like yourself...
    Yeah that's the trouble.

    I have been trying to speak like you.

  19. #59
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    Default Re: A challenge to all, to make our Portrait Forum second to none!

    at the risk of being flamed here, I also find that Deadpoet's comments, whilst certainly honest, are severely lacking in tact.

    There were criticisms of other CSers comments like "nosebleed", etc, which offer no constructive ability. Similarly, Deadpoet has made comments to the effect of "... your entire series of shots is HORRIBLE..." which is really unhelfpul as well, not to mention hurtful.

    While it's true that CSers shouldn't overdo the sugary comments when undeserved, sometimes it's just people's way of trying to be a little bit encouraging. After all, a large proportion of CSers are amateurs and beginners, so to receive comments on your photos like "... all your photos are terrible..." might likely discourage them from pursuing their hobby further.

    I am personally of the opinion that one can be critical whilst still being encouraging, even though the photo might truly be ghastly in your eyes. I don't feel that I'm personally qualified to critique someone else's photos yet, but if I were to comment, I might say something like "I quite like the expression of your model, but in future you must try to pay attention to _______ and ________ ........" I feel that such a comment serves the dual purpose of offering constructive criticism whilst being mildly encouraging as well.

    If there are members who really like a no-holds-barred type of commentary, perhaps the moderators might have to consider separate sub-forums or any other options.

  20. #60
    Moderator nightwolf75's Avatar
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    Default Re: A challenge to all, to make our Portrait Forum second to none!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sion View Post
    Let these 3 words carved on the stone at the entrance leading to the steps to CS Temple in the high mountain:

    "Learn and Share"
    actually.... it is. i quote from the forum banner.

    "Welcome to ClubSNAP, the largest, dedicated photography discussion site in Singapore with more than 53,000 members from Singapore, South East Asia and other parts of the world. Members are encouraged to share knowledge, discuss ideas and forge new friendships with others who have a similiar passion and interest in photography. "

    just dat most of us set our browsers to auto login that we miss the message...
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