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Thread: A challenge to all, to make our Portrait Forum second to none!

  1. #21
    Senior Member denniskee's Avatar
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    Default Re: A challenge to all, to make our Portrait Forum second to none!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesecake View Post
    it's never stated. there's no such rule.
    will it be implemented since cser thats of pro-level starts to say they want to bring up the std? if so, pls let me know so i dereg. myself as i belongs to the group who cant make it.
    photography makes one sees things from all angles.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Cheesecake's Avatar
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    Default Re: A challenge to all, to make our Portrait Forum second to none!

    Quote Originally Posted by denniskee View Post
    will it be implemented since cser thats of pro-level starts to say they want to bring up the std? if so, pls let me know so i dereg. myself as i belongs to the group who cant make it.
    the admins and moderators will have a discussion abt this issue that has been raised.


    ClubSnap is started for like-minded individuals with a love of fotography where they can gather, discuss and share their experiences, works and passion. - this will never change.

    pushing up the standard of fotography here isn't exactly a bad thing but we haf to keep in mind there're many of us here who are only interested to share their works.

    we'll see how it goes.
    You'll Never Walk Alone! - i have the best job in the world!

  3. #23
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    Default Re: A challenge to all, to make our Portrait Forum second to none!

    Quote Originally Posted by denniskee View Post
    will it be implemented since cser thats of pro-level starts to say they want to bring up the std? if so, pls let me know so i dereg. myself as i belongs to the group who cant make it.

    Me too

  4. #24
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    Default Re: A challenge to all, to make our Portrait Forum second to none!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesecake View Post
    zeitgeist...
    hehe can't spell

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    Default Re: A challenge to all, to make our Portrait Forum second to none!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesecake View Post
    the admins and moderators will have a discussion abt this issue that has been raised.


    ClubSnap is started for like-minded individuals with a love of fotography where they can gather, discuss and share their experiences, works and passion. - this will never change.

    pushing up the standard of fotography here isn't exactly a bad thing but we haf to keep in mind there're many of us here who are only interested to share their works.

    we'll see how it goes.
    To be fair this is an open forum so i dun see why the portraits area should only be exclusive to those who uphold a standard. We all started being crappy at one point or another. For people want to uphold a standard there's plenty of other places on the web for them to go. They're not the standard police so why should the mods and admins here be?

  6. #26

    Default Re: A challenge to all, to make our Portrait Forum second to none!

    Quote Originally Posted by TheQuestion View Post
    To be fair this is an open forum so i dun see why the portraits area should only be exclusive to those who uphold a standard. We all started being crappy at one point or another. For people want to uphold a standard there's plenty of other places on the web for them to go. They're not the standard police so why should the mods and admins here be?
    Guys, let me reiterate my original assertion again. I had never suggested that there should be a minimum standard set for all pictures before they can be posted. I had in fact said anyone can post anything within reasons.

    What I am saying is, if we truly want to be a second to none portrait forum, the membership must work on getting there. Where is there?

    We must comment honestly. We must give our opinion even if the comments may not be want the TS wanted to here. We must distinguished ourselves as a forum that gives meaningful and truthful feedback. If we continue the current ways, we will just be one of thousands out there.
    deadpoet
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    Default Re: A challenge to all, to make our Portrait Forum second to none!

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadpoet View Post
    Guys, let me reiterate my original assertion again. I had never suggested that there should be a minimum standard set for all pictures before they can be posted. I had in fact said anyone can post anything within reasons.

    What I am saying is, if we truly want to be a second to none portrait forum, the membership must work on getting there. Where is there?

    We must comment honestly. We must give our opinion even if the comments may not be want the TS wanted to here. We must distinguished ourselves as a forum that gives meaningful and truthful feedback. If we continue the current ways, we will just be one of thousands out there.
    which is why i said the zeitgeist needs to change. The local culture doesn't encourage frank and open speaking up. You want things to improve then you have to change the culture. Think you're up for it?

  8. #28
    Senior Member denniskee's Avatar
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    Default Re: A challenge to all, to make our Portrait Forum second to none!

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadpoet View Post
    Guys, let me reiterate my original assertion again. I had never suggested that there should be a minimum standard set for all pictures before they can be posted. I had in fact said anyone can post anything within reasons.

    What I am saying is, if we truly want to be a second to none portrait forum, the membership must work on getting there. Where is there?

    We must comment honestly. We must give our opinion even if the comments may not be want the TS wanted to here. We must distinguished ourselves as a forum that gives meaningful and truthful feedback. If we continue the current ways, we will just be one of thousands out there.
    i thought we have critic corner for that, the rest of sub-forum is for us to sharing our work, be it good or bad? also, different people different std. i english not so good, what is within reason? whose reasons? is it yours or mine? i thought within reason is similar to min. std?

    remember a cser shoot him and friends having fun dancing on table (not in the pub though), i find it fun but some female cser find it offensive / cheap. so how?

    like some have posted in other thread, if u feel like giving comment, than give, if dont feel like it, just move on to the next. when individual wants their photo to be commented, they know there is a critic corner.

    edit : so does it mean that i can post photos to share if it is not within reason (whatever that might be). what if i am only a hobbist and not looking to advance my skill? cant i just post snap shots? it is not like i posted snap shot in critic corner.

    does it make sense "to upgrade the std of cs, lets do it to only portrait subforum"? if it doesnt, that means all subforum posting will also have to be within reason. will there any room for us who CMI?
    Last edited by denniskee; 15th June 2008 at 02:57 AM.
    photography makes one sees things from all angles.

  9. #29

    Default Re: A challenge to all, to make our Portrait Forum second to none!

    from an amateur poster point of view, I do believe everyone (99%) who post pics in CS tries his/her personal best to post the best shots he/she has. For me, I post my "best" shots to see how well other people like it. Sometimes the gets good response sometimes not so good but at least it helps me to judge how good my pics are. It is hard to get honest comments OFFLINE from people we know as they are just too polite to criticize. That I feel is a pretty impt function of the photo galleries of CS.

    I really hope that CS do not discourage people from posting pics, be it good or bad. I don't think the TS intention is to restrict postings though rather encouraging more GOOD/VARIETY photos to be posted. Currently I think 90% of the pics in portraits seem to be from organised mass workshops. Maybe a workshop forum is a good idea.

  10. #30

    Default Re: A challenge to all, to make our Portrait Forum second to none!

    Quote Originally Posted by denniskee View Post
    i thought we have critic corner for that, the rest of sub-forum is for us to sharing our work, be it good or bad? also, different people different std. i english not so good, what is within reason? whose reasons? is it yours or mine? i thought within reason is similar to min. std?

    remember a cser shoot him and friends having fun dancing on table (not in the pub though), i find it fun but some female cser find it offensive / cheap. so how?

    like some have posted in other thread, if u feel like giving comment, than give, if dont feel like it, just move on to the next. when individual wants their photo to be commented, they know there is a critic corner.

    edit : so does it mean that i can post photos to share if it is not within reason (whatever that might be). what if i am only a hobbist and not looking to advance my skill? cant i just post snap shots? it is not like i posted snap shot in critic corner.

    does it make sense "to upgrade the std of cs, lets do it to only portrait subforum"? if it doesnt, that means all subforum posting will also have to be within reason. will there any room for us who CMI?
    Dennis ... you missed the point.

    Anyone can post any pictures of any themes/genre or any quality. At no time did I advocate that only better quality pictures should be posted. "Within reasons" has to do with nudity. Since this server is in Singapore, we have certain guidelines we have to adhere to.

    Pictures that can make it or cannot make it is not the question here. The posting of pictures will continue on just the same. The change is to ask the members to give honest feedback, comments, opinions and criticism.

    All too often, a series of pictures posted are clearly CMI. However, many here, will blindly go forth and shower praises.

    All these hypocritical comments, I surmise, is a key reasons why many of the better photographers are no longer posting.


    We, the members, must demonstrates that we know what is a good picture and what is a bad one. Praise the good pictures, criticize the the bad ones.

    Yes, we are trying to overcome cultural hurdles here. Who say it will be easy, especially if the goal is second to none.
    deadpoet
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  11. #31
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    Default Re: A challenge to all, to make our Portrait Forum second to none!

    I find that a big problem is the need for people to be able to accept constructive criticism, and also have the ability to agree to disagree.

    often we find ridiculous 'wars' that are pure wordplay and picking on "you said this", which then degenerates into meaningless discussion. however, from participating in some overseas forums, i find that different opinions are accomodated, and there is no need to force the other person to see or conform to a certain point of view.

    it struck me that this could be a by-product of the singaporean education system at work. we were taught in school that there is only one correct answer. all other answers are not acceptable. hence, even in discussions, we feel the need for everyone to agree that there is only one correct point of view. you either believe what i say, or you're wrong and i can call you names until you bow down to me.

    sometimes i find it hard to comment on the pictures in the portraits sections. actually, make that most of the time. the photos look normal, nothing to scream about because they're just like asking my girlfriend to go to the park with me and shooting some pictures. what's there to comment on? you comment on the posing, they say "oh it's a group shoot, i cannot control posing". comment on OOF shots, wiseguys chip in "must all photos be sharp?". some 'models' look less than pretty, and actually detract from the image. then they say "don't comment on the model". but it's the final image that matters. everything is fair game, i believe.

    ok, i better shut up now before someone says "why you talk so much? see your pictures leh. never see you post before, still come and slam everyone."
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  12. #32
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    Default Re: A challenge to all, to make our Portrait Forum second to none!

    Quote Originally Posted by antacid View Post
    I find that a big problem is the need for people to be able to accept constructive criticism, and also have the ability to agree to disagree.

    often we find ridiculous 'wars' that are pure wordplay and picking on "you said this", which then degenerates into meaningless discussion. however, from participating in some overseas forums, i find that different opinions are accomodated, and there is no need to force the other person to see or conform to a certain point of view.

    it struck me that this could be a by-product of the singaporean education system at work. we were taught in school that there is only one correct answer. all other answers are not acceptable. hence, even in discussions, we feel the need for everyone to agree that there is only one correct point of view. you either believe what i say, or you're wrong and i can call you names until you bow down to me.

    sometimes i find it hard to comment on the pictures in the portraits sections. actually, make that most of the time. the photos look normal, nothing to scream about because they're just like asking my girlfriend to go to the park with me and shooting some pictures. what's there to comment on? you comment on the posing, they say "oh it's a group shoot, i cannot control posing". comment on OOF shots, wiseguys chip in "must all photos be sharp?". some 'models' look less than pretty, and actually detract from the image. then they say "don't comment on the model". but it's the final image that matters. everything is fair game, i believe.

    ok, i better shut up now before someone says "why you talk so much? see your pictures leh. never see you post before, still come and slam everyone."
    you've made some very good points. This isn't photo.net nor does it claim to be and it has a loooooooooooooooong way to go if it wants to aspire to be. All i have to say is to anyone trying to change the system here why expand all that effort and energy when you could be using that to go out and shoot more?

  13. #33
    Senior Member zac08's Avatar
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    Default Re: A challenge to all, to make our Portrait Forum second to none!

    Quote Originally Posted by pisduck View Post
    from an amateur poster point of view, I do believe everyone (99%) who post pics in CS tries his/her personal best to post the best shots he/she has. For me, I post my "best" shots to see how well other people like it. Sometimes the gets good response sometimes not so good but at least it helps me to judge how good my pics are. It is hard to get honest comments OFFLINE from people we know as they are just too polite to criticize. That I feel is a pretty impt function of the photo galleries of CS.

    I really hope that CS do not discourage people from posting pics, be it good or bad. I don't think the TS intention is to restrict postings though rather encouraging more GOOD/VARIETY photos to be posted. Currently I think 90% of the pics in portraits seem to be from organised mass workshops. Maybe a workshop forum is a good idea.
    Somehow, I can't be sure if they actually do CRITIQUE their own work first.

    If we could actually sit back and think about the pictures we have taken at another perspective, quite a lot of the shots would not have appeared.

    If we want to be better, we have to sit back and think about the level of the work first. And if you think they can't make it, why still bother to show them??
    Michael Lim
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    Default Re: A challenge to all, to make our Portrait Forum second to none!

    What's CMI? Pardon the question.

  15. #35
    Senior Member Cheesecake's Avatar
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    Default Re: A challenge to all, to make our Portrait Forum second to none!

    Quote Originally Posted by theveed View Post
    What's CMI? Pardon the question.
    CMI = cannot make it.
    You'll Never Walk Alone! - i have the best job in the world!

  16. #36
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    Default Re: A challenge to all, to make our Portrait Forum second to none!

    Quote Originally Posted by theveed View Post
    What's CMI? Pardon the question.
    TheVeed: its abbr for Cannot Make It.
    Canon 7D, canon 50mm f1.8; 18-135, sigma 30 f1.4, tamron 17-50 VC. East shooter. ;)

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    Default Re: A challenge to all, to make our Portrait Forum second to none!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesecake View Post
    the admins and moderators will have a discussion abt this issue that has been raised.


    ClubSnap is started for like-minded individuals with a love of fotography where they can gather, discuss and share their experiences, works and passion. - this will never change.

    pushing up the standard of fotography here isn't exactly a bad thing but we haf to keep in mind there're many of us here who are only interested to share their works.

    we'll see how it goes.
    Precisely, the main reason I posted some pics was to share some taken during a photo shoot. Just for fun, some not-so-serious shots.

    When you post, folks are free to comment. But by just saying "very bad", what is the point, without elaborating or giving explanation of what is bad, why is bad and how to improve. And to some, pics are always bad, only some are not so bad, not that bad, etc.

    Worst still, there are those who just say it's bad, and add that it is so bad that he doesn't know where to start to comment. Well, ain't that just a waste of bandwith, power and everybody's time?
    Last edited by smallaperture; 15th June 2008 at 10:14 AM.
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  18. #38
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    Default Re: A challenge to all, to make our Portrait Forum second to none!

    Quote Originally Posted by theveed View Post
    What's CMI? Pardon the question.
    CMI is the acronym for cannot make it.
    I love big car, big house, big lenses, but small apertures.

  19. #39
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    Talking Re: A challenge to all, to make our Portrait Forum second to none!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesecake View Post
    HOLD IT!!!


    where like-minded individuals with a love of fotography can gather, discuss and share their experiences, works and passion.
    not dramatic enough. The "HOLD IT!!!" must cover the whole screen.
    Therefore, this is a bad post.
    “How fortunate for leaders that men do not think.” - Adolf Hitler

  20. #40
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    Default Re: A challenge to all, to make our Portrait Forum second to none!

    just split the Portraits sections into "Beginner" and "Professional/Advance"

    Beginner: for all snapshots/learners wanting comments to improve. Critique corner isn't as good because photogs cannot post a series of photos but allowed only ONE photo. For those who cannot stand to see lousy snapshots or portraits can just skip this section.

    Professional/Advance: For all seasoned shooters who want to showcase their skills and works. Need not be "professionals" earning money from photography but can also be "Advanced" shooters who have good directorship over the models instead of the models "auto-posing" for them. Consolidated good quality works in here for all to drool over and give their 3 thumbsup.
    “How fortunate for leaders that men do not think.” - Adolf Hitler

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