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Thread: Comments directed to models, why not.

  1. #161
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Comments directed to models, why not.

    Upz for this comment

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadpoet View Post
    I had mentioned to nightmare somewhere earlier on, I believe that the "protect the model movement", is all due to a fantasy. This fantasy is emotional. I believe many photographers become emotionally attached ( I am making a very clear distinction between ATTACHED and not attracted ) to the model one way or another. Why? I don't think the why is that important and there are probably too many reasons why.

    Photographers feel models in their pictures are perfect, and in fact, in their mind, models become perfect, models as in the person, and here lies the problem. The xmm is so beautiful, eyes so big, smiles so cute, so bubbly, so sweet ..... How can we, critics, dare to comment negatively on perfections.

    From the standpoint of a photographer, or an artist, the model, once transferred in real life onto a picture, as Mattlock had so succinctly put, from 3 dimensional to 2 dimensional, the model ceased to become a person, with blood and feeling, but is merely an object. Do we have a problem criticizing an object? I don't think that is a problem at all.

  2. #162

    Default Re: Comments directed to models, why not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadpoet View Post
    My thread is really NOT about how constructive the critiques should be, but more importantly, why some photographers get all twisted into s knot, when the viewers commented negatively regarding their models ...
    Different individuals react differently to comments, some of them will react negatively and get all twisted up no doubt. But if one really wants to comment and help, then i for one think that a properly worded constructive criticism will go a long ways towards mitigating a negative reaction for a start. If the person still gets all twisted up, then over time, he will be recognized as such and either people will "hentam" him or they dont bother with him anymore.

  3. #163

    Default Re: Comments directed to models, why not.

    Quote Originally Posted by xiaotinggg View Post
    well, i dont know if i get my point across, but i support commes to the model! yeh!
    Quote Originally Posted by Deadpoet View Post
    In a lot of ways, I am really surprised that this thread had been as civil as it had What happened is a rather eye opening experience in CS.
    Bravo xiaotinggg. I applaud u for making a stand on this issue. (if i m not mistaken, u are the only model who is participating in this discussion - but then i cant be sure cause i dont shoot xmm

    Yes Deadpoet, it just goes to show that CS members can lash it out as well as hold it in

  4. #164

    Default Re: Comments directed to models, why not.

    Im all with Deadpoet on this one, but goes out to everyone as a whole. We as photographers have already realised that among us there are always the more opinionated ones and just others who rant and make noise on CS with mediocre English and stupid emoticons, which does annoy me to hell but is not the point of contention in this case.

    Point being that - If you actually bother to put photos up here, then why self-censor the comments? Do you want to keep it like your Friendster testimonials whereby you only keep the nice comments about you from your friends, and hit the DELETE key when someone flames you on your wall? What are you trying to get at, be the most popular photographer on CS with the highest number of votes for every photo taken & without any detractors? Are you kidding? It is IMPOSSIBLE to impress everyone, so sow your oats elsewhere.

    Secondly, as per all petty comments. If you allow the initial comment to affect you so much, then you are no better than this "punani" guy to begin with. Try other methods, eg ignoring his unnecessary comment or better still, which is the way I prefer to do it, say something witty to shut him up, and let him know whos boss, instead of inserting some dumb emoticon *cue* and people will never take you seriously.

    Else if all fails, just rent a book from the library -How 2 deal with life.
    Canon 40D, 10-22, 35, 70-200
    http://theserialhobbyist.multiply.com

  5. #165
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    Default Re: Comments directed to models, why not.

    conclusion to everything that has been said? seems like the thread ought to be wrapped up soon and for everyone to move on.

  6. #166

    Default Re: Comments directed to models, why not.

    Quote Originally Posted by mrchua View Post
    conclusion to everything that has been said? seems like the thread ought to be wrapped up soon and for everyone to move on.
    the dead horse hasn't become puree yet so it rolls on...

  7. #167

    Default Re: Comments directed to models, why not.

    Quote Originally Posted by garou12 View Post
    the dead horse hasn't become puree yet so it rolls on...
    yeah man.
    Eat breath LIVERPOOL!!!

  8. #168

    Default Re: Comments directed to models, why not.

    Quote Originally Posted by fotoudavid View Post
    yeah man.
    the glue factory haven't come and pick up their raw material yet!

  9. #169

    Default Re: Comments directed to models, why not.

    ^^ After reading/glancing through 9 pages of comments, guess majority of ppl here agree that models can be commented in pictures yea. And i totally agree with it. Xiaoting is really cute and pretty in real life, so those pictures really didnt do her justice lo. =/ However, since these forums are for people to share their thoughts and improve, kinda shocking that yamapi was deregistered.
    I really like to see photog/models commenting on my pictures, so that it is easier for me to improve. Although many a times comments/critics were harsh, it really helped me learn. And I think it's normal for photog to be defensive against his model. =) I rmbed my first photoshoot and the comments i receive, the photographers asked me to take it easy and stuff.
    Anw, in this case abt canonised pic, hmm, i feel that the "auntie" remark wasn't thrown to at xiaoting, rather than the photog, cause most of us knows that xiaoting is a bubbly model. ^^V Sooo, critics are still to the phtog in this photog forum.

  10. #170
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Comments directed to models, why not.

    2nd model who says its fine to comment on models Good to know. Upz Jocelyn

  11. #171

    Default Re: Comments directed to models, why not.

    Quote Originally Posted by honeyJK View Post
    ....
    Anw, in this case abt canonised pic, hmm, i feel that the "auntie" remark wasn't thrown to at xiaoting, rather than the photog, cause most of us knows that xiaoting is a bubbly model. ^^V Sooo, critics are still to the phtog in this photog forum.
    Exactly!!! But seem like everything from the start become only between the model's and the commenter's problem. Haha, this is the point, which dunno why I could not swallow. Perhaps, it's also the deregistered thingy adding on it.

    Nevertheless, life goes on.
    Cheers!
    Last edited by cheeseme; 1st June 2008 at 11:54 PM.

  12. #172
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    Default Re: Comments directed to models, why not.

    Quote Originally Posted by honeyJK View Post
    Xiaoting is really cute and pretty in real life, so those pictures really didnt do her justice lo. =/ However, since these forums are for people to share their thoughts and improve, kinda shocking that yamapi was deregistered.

    Anw, in this case abt canonised pic, hmm, i feel that the "auntie" remark wasn't thrown to at xiaoting, rather than the photog, cause most of us knows that xiaoting is a bubbly model. ^^V Sooo, critics are still to the phtog in this photog forum.
    ahem, not every CSer personally know every model. maybe a benefit of doubt can be given? (speaking for those who are into model photography)

    does this mean i should not comment on a personal capacity. or would those who do not know models personally be refused comment?

    did i open a can of worms?
    Last edited by sORe-EyEz; 2nd June 2008 at 12:15 AM.

  13. #173

    Default Re: Comments directed to models, why not.

    The reasons there are so many wannabes out there who Cannot Make It are:

    1) photographers post unconstructive comments like, "Wah nosebleed!" and "Such a sweet face!", and
    2) whenever people post negative comments about the models, other people come to their rescue. (IMHO, I would never ever shoot xiaotingg myself, and that lends to my point.)

    Such opinions are subjective and should be kept to oneself if one can't come up with a tactful way to post them. It helps no one by posting your opinion of the appearance of the model. The evidence is in the photos, and photographers can judge for themselves. Many photographers like Annie Leibowitz, I personally don't think she deserves the celebrity. What does that mean? It means I don't think she deserves the celebrity. It doesn't mean I'm stupid or a bad photographer.

    The exception would be, say, "You didn't DI the acne off her face," or "Her choice of clothes/makeup/hair makes her look auntie," both of which are not personal attacks on the model, but commentary on the judgment of both the model and the photographer.

    A solution to this might be a two-prong attack:

    1) Models really considered their value to the community and if they can't take the heat, they should stay out of the kitchen.
    2) Photographers need to decide what comments are worth paying attention to and what comments should be ignored.

    Common sense is the least common sense...
    Last edited by Triazolium; 2nd June 2008 at 12:15 AM.
    Available as a model, photographer, and art director/stylist.

  14. #174

    Default Re: Comments directed to models, why not.

    Quote Originally Posted by honeyJK View Post
    I really like to see photog/models commenting on my pictures, so that it is easier for me to improve. Although many a times comments/critics were harsh, it really helped me learn. And I think it's normal for photog to be defensive against his model. =) I rmbed my first photoshoot and the comments i receive, the photographers asked me to take it easy and stuff.
    Anw, in this case abt canonised pic, hmm, i feel that the "auntie" remark wasn't thrown to at xiaoting, rather than the photog, cause most of us knows that xiaoting is a bubbly model. ^^V Sooo, critics are still to the phtog in this photog forum.
    The problem with this is, as sore-eyez pointed out, is we don't know these models on a personal level. If you know that xiaotingg is really a "bubbly" model and obviously other photogs don't, then take comfort in the fact that you know something others don't and leave it at that. Coming to the passionate defense of someone you know whom others don't is a waste of energy on the defenders' part, as well as to everyone who reads that crap.

    By the way, "bubbly" does not equal "pretty". The former is an adjective for personality, while the latter is for appearance.
    Last edited by Triazolium; 2nd June 2008 at 12:20 AM.
    Available as a model, photographer, and art director/stylist.

  15. #175

    Default Re: Comments directed to models, why not.

    A wise chef will choose his ingredients properly. As much as the skill of the chef is important, the quality and choice of the ingredients affects the overall dish.

    As a part-time kitchen assistant, I never see the chef present dishes that can't pass their own standard. Anything below acceptable standard will be dump - wasting food is neligible compared to serving bad food to customers. That's professionalism.

    Likewise, a good photographer should choose his/her subject of photography carefully so as to bring out the best for the photograph. In this case, the right facial features, dressing, makeup etc are to be taken into consideration when choosing the model to shoot. Decide whether they are "portfolio material", because a wrong choice just tanish your own portfolio.

  16. #176
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    Default Re: Comments directed to models, why not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenova View Post
    A wise chef will choose his ingredients properly. As much as the skill of the chef is important, the quality and choice of the ingredients affects the overall dish.

    As a part-time kitchen assistant, I never see the chef present dishes that can't pass their own standard. Anything below acceptable standard will be dump - wasting food is neligible compared to serving bad food to customers. That's professionalism.

    Likewise, a good photographer should choose his/her subject of photography carefully so as to bring out the best for the photograph. In this case, the right facial features, dressing, makeup etc are to be taken into consideration when choosing the model to shoot. Decide whether they are "portfolio material", because a wrong choice just tanish your own portfolio.
    photography for some a hobby, for others a livelihood. even then there are many levels of skills, i do not think such comment is fair as there are limitation in budget, time, skills (photographic). in time some do improve, even if the model is the same. perfection takes time, for some a longer time than others.

    neither would it be fair that only a top chef of the year gets acccolades while the rest down the line are told to switch careers.
    Last edited by sORe-EyEz; 2nd June 2008 at 01:04 AM.

  17. #177

    Default Re: Comments directed to models, why not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadpoet View Post
    In a lot of ways, I am really surprised that this thread had been as civil as it had What happened is a rather eye opening experience in CS.

    To Canonised, we will always disagree on many things, and you are correct, I came from a very different culture and up bringing. I am also more passionate about what I do than most. I am glad you identified the difference of hash comments vs personal attacks. As our model had said it succinctly, I really feel the auntie comments was not a personal attack. Granted, with his checkered background, I was not surprised that he was once again, banished from our realm. He did in fact pointed out with very few words, what the image portrayed. I will stop here on this issue.

    The rest, we all will take different stands, and that is fine. What I am trying again and again, a no comment request, just for the model, is still absurd. This is not the way to stop personal attacks.

    To our model, who was calm and composed in the eye of the storm, I am impressed. Call me in a few years, I will do a killer shoot for you.



  18. #178

    Default Re: Comments directed to models, why not.

    ya everyone assumed that msot of photographers have took my photos before, which i have lost count with so many photographers that i have e fortune to work in CS



    thats why everyone is coming to my defense




    i guess things shld just been wrap up everyone has expressed in someway or another
    their views and points, but seriously if u first reathis thread with the mind of comments shld not be targeted to the model, after reading thru this tedious nine pages, will your mind still change? it will not, same goes to the latter.




    SInce there is no obvious rules of what is correct or wrong, i think everyone shld leave at it.
    As a model i believe that every model has the heart to take any comments be it positive or negative fired at her, and if a photographer wanted to protect the model's feeling, he or she should have tak the responsibility of ensuring no comment directed at the model written near the model's potrait photography.

  19. #179

    Default Re: Comments directed to models, why not.

    As long as there are money-hungry vain XMMs and as long as there are GWCs, there will be this problem.

    Sure, reading this thread will not change people's minds in a day, a year, or ten years, but if more people are aware of the circumstances, I will be pacified. You can't make an idiot less stupid, but you can help an idiot do fewer stupid things.

    Once I have access to a sniper rifle with silencer, then I will snipe all money-hungry vain CMI XMMs and GWCs myself and all this BS will be done away with.
    Available as a model, photographer, and art director/stylist.

  20. #180

    Default Re: Comments directed to models, why not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Triazolium View Post
    As long as there are money-hungry vain XMMs and as long as there are GWCs, there will be this problem.

    Sure, reading this thread will not change people's minds in a day, a year, or ten years, but if more people are aware of the circumstances, I will be pacified. You can't make an idiot less stupid, but you can help an idiot do fewer stupid things.

    Once I have access to a sniper rifle with silencer, then I will snipe all money-hungry vain CMI XMMs and GWCs myself and all this BS will be done away with.
    Evil....but i like

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