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Thread: Comments directed to models, why not.

  1. #201

    Default Re: Comments directed to models, why not.

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    .....

    i do get mattlockś point, but i still cannot see the light (if there is any in it). to me it is like saying that you should criticise a lamp in a still life photograph - saying that the lamp is not photogenic, for example, is nonsensical to me, since the poor lamp had not bearing or control on its role in the photograph. same goes for a tree in landscape. it is *precisely* because these are objects in the photograph that i feel that there is no need to comment on them. if you do feel something about the object, and you do think that the photographer had some control in it, and believe me he did, then phrasing should be directed at the photographer. if the lamp is realy, really, really not photogenic, then you should tell the photographer that you think there is no picture here.

    ....
    Yes, I can and I will criticize the lamp, if the lamp is ugly. The lamp, an inanimate object, of course, will not know what I am talking about. However, the designer of this lamp, the maker of this lamp, and the photographer of this lamp will understand what I am saying, and the comments will be received by people who has control over the lamp.

    Back to a model. If the model is ugly, I will definitely say so directly. The model understand what I am saying, and may decide to change her looks, makeup or whatever to improve. Or she may choose to ignore me. At the end of the day, my comments towards the model will have a definite impact on subsequent photos. So, why not comment on the model?
    deadpoet
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  2. #202

    Default Re: Comments directed to models, why not.

    after 200 over posts on this topic, it seems like the whole thing is getting nowhere.

    the photographer definitely has a choice of who he shoots. please don't say he has no choice. he also has a choice of how he wants the model to look like. so what if its a group shoot? u can always take a break and have a rest.

    if the model is naturally born looking like a dog, i am sure the photographer knows that and probably has a specific idea how to make her look beautiful in her own special way. i am 100% sure that no one here will tell a photographer his plus size model is fat if the shot was done properly. end of the day, control lies within the photographer and what is the image or message he wants to send out to us, the audience.

    of course if the model is a walking fashion disaster and commits every fashion faux pas in the book, everyone will poke fun at that. its not personal and usually tongue in cheek. and most of the time, i think u must be mad to trust the fashion sense of most of the people here anyway.

    but again, the photographer should have been aware of this during the shoot and how he could turn the situation around. if he doesn't and the model ends up looking like my grandmother or her dog, barbs may seem directed towards the model but the photographer should know in his heart he was the one who screwed it up.

    everyone can make a pretty girl look good but the great can make the ugly beautiful. how many here can lay claim to that?

  3. #203
    Senior Member Sion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Comments directed to models, why not.

    Quote Originally Posted by flipfreak View Post
    ...everyone can make a pretty girl look good but the great can make the ugly beautiful. how many here can lay claim to that?
    But The Greatest is to make a man look more beautiful than a woman.
    Last edited by Sion; 4th June 2008 at 06:36 PM.

  4. #204
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    Default Re: Comments directed to models, why not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sion View Post
    But The Greatest is make a man look more beautiful than a woman.
    This one you have to go to Thailand.
    D∞X, 1-∞ mm F0.17. I like to show off my equipment list because I'm pro. My Flickr

  5. #205

    Default Re: Comments directed to models, why not.

    Quote Originally Posted by entropy_h View Post
    This one you have to go to Thailand.
    You know i really would like to see how well a photog could shoot a tranny and bring out their feminity on cam...to the point that they'd be able to fool the casual observer.

  6. #206

    Default Re: Comments directed to models, why not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sion View Post
    But The Greatest is to make a man look more beautiful than a woman.
    that would be a challenge.

  7. #207

    Default Re: Comments directed to models, why not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadpoet View Post
    Back to a model. If the model is ugly, I will definitely say so directly. The model understand what I am saying, and may decide to change her looks, makeup or whatever to improve. Or she may choose to ignore me. At the end of the day, my comments towards the model will have a definite impact on subsequent photos. So, why not comment on the model?
    i.e. you have just made a statement that

    a person has control over how she looks.

    even if you look like say, patricia mok, you can eventually one day look like er, keira knightley

  8. #208

    Default Re: Comments directed to models, why not.

    Quote Originally Posted by flipfreak View Post
    everyone can make a pretty girl look good but the great can make the ugly beautiful. how many here can lay claim to that?
    if you're talking about beauty in terms of aesthetics, no one.

    an ugly dog remains an ugly dog no matter how good the photographer is. but showing a side that makes the ugly dog beautiful.. now that's something i have to agree, only the great can do.

    pass martha to the gwcs roaming P&P, i think all of them will end up making her look extremely anorexic. give her to andrei dragan, and you get an award winning photograph.

  9. #209

    Default Re: Comments directed to models, why not.

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    if you're talking about beauty in terms of aesthetics, no one.

    an ugly dog remains an ugly dog no matter how good the photographer is. but showing a side that makes the ugly dog beautiful.. now that's something i have to agree, only the great can do.

    pass martha to the gwcs roaming P&P, i think all of them will end up making her look extremely anorexic. give her to andrei dragan, and you get an award winning photograph.
    not talking abt real aesthetics la. no surgeons here. butchers maybe.

    martha? they won't even think of shooting her. she doesn't fit into their sense of beauty.

  10. #210

    Default Re: Comments directed to models, why not.

    Quote Originally Posted by flipfreak View Post
    not talking abt real aesthetics la. no surgeons here. butchers maybe.

    martha? they won't even think of shooting her. she doesn't fit into their sense of beauty.
    but she's beautiful!

  11. #211

    Default Re: Comments directed to models, why not.

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    but she's beautiful!
    everyone's beautiful but in cs, we want pretty.

  12. #212

    Default Re: Comments directed to models, why not.

    Quote Originally Posted by flipfreak View Post
    everyone's beautiful but in cs, we want pretty.
    pretty means nothing

  13. #213

    Default Re: Comments directed to models, why not.

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    pretty means nothing
    pretty is beautiful minus the substance.

  14. #214

    Default Re: Comments directed to models, why not.

    Wait wait wait.... please correct me if I'm wrong.

    YES
    DP
    Cheese

    NOT
    night86mare

    Right?
    Anymore?


    吃得了咸鱼,抵得了渴!- Those eat cheese can take the smell!
    Last edited by cheeseme; 4th June 2008 at 10:22 PM.

  15. #215

    Default Re: Comments directed to models, why not.

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    and thatś precisely what i am saying?

    you would not call a lamp ugly. it is not its fault, and if it is indeed ugly then the photographer should not shoot. if it is not actually ugly then the photographer screwed up his photograph, that is still nothing to do with the lamp being ugly.
    But what I mean to say is you CAN call a lamp ugly! It's a lamp, you can't change it and you can't blame the lamp for being ugly, but you can shoot it in a way to make it fit your shot.

    A model is different in that you CAN change her appearance to a certain extent. You can't blame the model for being the way she is or looking the way she does... If you cannot change her appearance to suit your photo.. er.. well, then she isn't suitable for your photo, i.e. either too ugly/auntie/etc. or just doesn't have the certain "look" you're going for.
    Available as a model, photographer, and art director/stylist.

  16. #216
    Senior Member
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    Default Re: Comments directed to models, why not.

    Quote Originally Posted by flipfreak View Post
    pretty is beautiful minus the substance.
    but how to capture & translate substance on a 2D pic? eg, bubbly personality?

  17. #217

    Default Re: Comments directed to models, why not.

    nightmare, I don't understand why you are so vehemently speaking up on this topic
    the closest thing I see to you taking a picture relating to a living creature's beauty is this
    http://www.pbase.com/night86mare/image/80401774

    I would suggest being more selective with your battles

  18. #218
    Senior Member zac08's Avatar
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    Default Re: Comments directed to models, why not.

    Quote Originally Posted by cheeseme View Post
    Wait wait wait.... please correct me if I'm wrong.

    YES
    DP
    Cheese

    NOT
    night86mare

    Right?
    Anymore?


    吃得了咸鱼,抵得了渴!- Those eat cheese can take the smell!
    I'm on the side of Yes, comments allowed but within limits.
    Michael Lim
    My Flickr Site

  19. #219

    Default Re: Comments directed to models, why not.

    I'm going to give me 2 cents on this as someone who is not really interested in "pretty" or "ugly"

    it is not every photographer's intention to create something pretty or beautiful

    it is not every photographer's intention to have their photos dissected when they post in Portraits and Poses. Some people are more sensitive to comments than others. there is nothing wrong with this. Different people have different comfort levels.
    As a poster, if you are uncomfortable with certain types of comments you can just say so and request that people acknowledge your requests.

    There are two ways to take comments: put yourself in the commentator's shoes and try to understand the main motivation of why they say what they say, or ignore what they say and do things the way you believe in.
    But to say "no we cannot say this or that" is just detrimental to our photographic community in the long run.

  20. #220

    Default Re: Comments directed to models, why not.

    Quote Originally Posted by garou12 View Post
    You know i really would like to see how well a photog could shoot a tranny and bring out their feminity on cam...to the point that they'd be able to fool the casual observer.
    I remember an example of a magazine print ad for a cigarette co once when I was shooting for mod agencies. The booker was gushing about how even the (Caucasian) male model, standing beside the 'female' (Thai) model had no idea, and was hitting on 'her' throughout the entire shoot. I saw the tear-sheet, and I swear, the 'female' model was a whole lot more captivating, and natural looking than most other Cat A models. Remember, I was not a 'casual observer', and neither were any of the industry professionals and we were all 'convinced'.

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