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Thread: Comments directed to models, why not.

  1. #181
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    Default Re: Comments directed to models, why not.

    Chill

    Have a beer everyone!!!!

    My model here did a great job!! Its all about casting la...

    It is easier to critique than to create ; www.razin-photography.com
    My studio is available for rent

  2. #182

    Default Re: Comments directed to models, why not.

    Quote Originally Posted by razor View Post
    Chill

    Have a beer everyone!!!!

    My model here did a great job!! Its all about casting la...

    ahaha old classic pic of yours that's been around for awhile now hasn't it?

  3. #183
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    Default Re: Comments directed to models, why not.

    Quote Originally Posted by garou12 View Post
    ahaha old classic pic of yours that's been around for awhile now hasn't it?
    classics will stand the test of time...
    It is easier to critique than to create ; www.razin-photography.com
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  4. #184

    Default Re: Comments directed to models, why not.

    Quote Originally Posted by razor View Post
    Chill

    Have a beer everyone!!!!

    My model here did a great job!! Its all about casting la...

    She looks aunty leh
    Canon EOS 66 | Kit Lens | Leung Sheung Wing Chun Singapore

  5. #185
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    Default Re: Comments directed to models, why not.

    Quote Originally Posted by peapilot View Post
    She looks aunty leh
    perhaps 2 bottles will change your vision...
    It is easier to critique than to create ; www.razin-photography.com
    My studio is available for rent

  6. #186

    Default Re: Comments directed to models, why not.

    Quote Originally Posted by razor View Post
    perhaps 2 bottles will change your vision...
    Beer googles! See the world thru the eyes of a drunk!

  7. #187
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    Default Re: Comments directed to models, why not.

    Quote Originally Posted by razor View Post
    Chill

    Have a beer everyone!!!!

    My model here did a great job!! Its all about casting la...



    The photographer & MUA also did a great job.

  8. #188

    Default Re: Comments directed to models, why not.

    Please tell me, should all this be commented?

    http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=381866

    http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=382052

    Of course, you can say they are not model, they are beauties with brain, and I'm OTOT but but but...really that much of a difference meh????...OMG!!!! Generally, they never failed every year to make me spray out my rice if I'm eating in front of the monitor. What's happening?

    Cheers!
    Last edited by cheeseme; 3rd June 2008 at 11:26 PM.

  9. #189

    Default Re: Comments directed to models, why not.

    Quote Originally Posted by cheeseme View Post
    Please tell me, should all this be commented?

    http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=381866

    http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=382052

    Of course, you can say they are not model, they are beauties with brain, and I'm OTOT but but but...really that much of a difference meh????...OMG!!!! Generally, they never failed every year to make me spray out my rice if I'm eating in front of the monitor. What's happening?

    Cheers!
    It's hard to say. Some photographers post, "Here are photos of one of my favorite contestants," which is an indication that the photographer didn't post for the C&C. (Technically, C&C should be given in the designated C&C thread.) In that case, I think it's fair game.

    It's "safer" to bash them in the Kopitiam forum.

    As for the awesome photo below, "it's all about casting". If that's the look you're going for, then people and comment all they want, but if it's what YOU want, then who cares what they say? Sticks and stones, people, sticks and stones...
    Available as a model, photographer, and art director/stylist.

  10. #190

    Default Re: Comments directed to models, why not.

    Quote Originally Posted by razor View Post
    perhaps 2 bottles will change your vision...
    i just had about that and she still looks like an aunty

  11. #191

    Default Re: Comments directed to models, why not.

    Quote Originally Posted by cheeseme View Post
    Please tell me, should all this be commented?

    http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=381866

    http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=382052

    Of course, you can say they are not model, they are beauties with brain, and I'm OTOT but but but...really that much of a difference meh????...OMG!!!! Generally, they never failed every year to make me spray out my rice if I'm eating in front of the monitor. What's happening?

    Cheers!

    Beauty pageant contestants are fair game. We can of course comment on that how they look. They want to claim the title of I am most beautiful. Actually, the standard for the contestants should be raised. After all, they al think they are beauty queen, and therefore, we should slam on the standard of beauty queens.

    Btw, not sure how they fare in real life, if based on these pictures, .
    deadpoet
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  12. #192
    Senior Member zac08's Avatar
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    Default Re: Comments directed to models, why not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadpoet View Post
    Beauty pageant contestants are fair game. We can of course comment on that how they look. They want to claim the title of I am most beautiful. Actually, the standard for the contestants should be raised. After all, they al think they are beauty queen, and therefore, we should slam on the standard of beauty queens.

    Btw, not sure how they fare in real life, if based on these pictures, .
    Believe me, your thumbsdown is very valid... I was there the other day and I dun know how they got up there in the first place.
    Michael Lim
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  13. #193

    Default Re: Comments directed to models, why not.

    Quote Originally Posted by zac08 View Post
    Believe me, your thumbsdown is very valid... I was there the other day and I dun know how they got up there in the first place.
    some of them i even wonder how bad the contestants were for the ones to have made it to the semis!

  14. #194

    Default Re: Comments directed to models, why not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadpoet View Post
    What we are doing here, or more accurately, what I am advocating here is, what commercial and art photographers/models, have been dealing with their entire careers in real live. Only diff is, we here on CS or other similar internet societies, can hide behind our nicks, where the real pros, they have to face all the criticisms head on. Worst, the criticisms are nastier, and the consequences more dire.

    I had mentioned to nightmare somewhere earlier on, I believe that the "protect the model movement", is all due to a fantasy. This fantasy is emotional. I believe many photographers become emotionally attached ( I am making a very clear distinction between ATTACHED and not attracted ) to the model one way or another. Why? I don't think the why is that important and there are probably too many reasons why.

    From the standpoint of a photographer, or an artist, the model, once transferred in real life onto a picture, as Mattlock had so succinctly put, from 3 dimensional to 2 dimensional, the model ceased to become a person, with blood and feeling, but is merely an object. Do we have a problem criticizing an object? I don't think that is a problem at all.
    well i still do not agree with you but i have to agree on some of these points. they are probably not true for some people though - i did make my statement based on my own principles and viewpoints rather than a desire that xiaoting would actually eventually help me do my much-touted national stadium tfcd suggested in one of those kopitiam threads (if you do not get the joke, never mind).

    that said, yes, a lot of people here perhaps have such an attachment - personally i do not feel that canonised is one of them.. but it is an increasing problem. and after all, i cannot speak for anyone else save myself.

    i do get mattlockś point, but i still cannot see the light (if there is any in it). to me it is like saying that you should criticise a lamp in a still life photograph - saying that the lamp is not photogenic, for example, is nonsensical to me, since the poor lamp had not bearing or control on its role in the photograph. same goes for a tree in landscape. it is *precisely* because these are objects in the photograph that i feel that there is no need to comment on them. if you do feel something about the object, and you do think that the photographer had some control in it, and believe me he did, then phrasing should be directed at the photographer. if the lamp is realy, really, really not photogenic, then you should tell the photographer that you think there is no picture here.

    and then again, i have never ever done model photography so like i have mentioned before, perhaps the huge amount of time making no-human-involved photographs might have moulded this direction of thinking. after all, when there is no other human factor then we only have ourselves to blame.

    like i said, this might be based on differing life views so essentially i have sounded out my points, you have yours, others have said their piece, and i do not think that we can really convince each other otherwise.. so long as both parties could agree that there is merit in each otherś arguments then that is all that is needed to be said - then now is the time to do what ortega has suggested, i.e. agree to disagree. cheers.
    Last edited by night86mare; 4th June 2008 at 12:08 PM.

  15. #195

    Default Re: Comments directed to models, why not.

    Quote Originally Posted by zac08 View Post
    Believe me, your thumbsdown is very valid... I was there the other day and I dun know how they got up there in the first place.
    Sad to say, the standard to MSW and MSU has deteriorated so much over the years.

    There are too many pagent contest going on and in almost every models profile, you will see them crowned as the winner or at least runners up for some dunno what pagent. All these pagent boost their ego and make them belief they are "special"!

  16. #196
    Senior Member Leong23's Avatar
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    Default Re: Comments directed to models, why not.

    Quote Originally Posted by mystudio View Post
    Sad to say, the standard to MSW and MSU has deteriorated so much over the years.

    There are too many pagent contest going on and in almost every models profile, you will see them crowned as the winner or at least runners up for some dunno what pagent. All these pagent boost their ego and make them belief they are "special"!
    I fully agreed!

  17. #197

    Default Re: Comments directed to models, why not.

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post

    i do get mattlockś point, but i still cannot see the light (if there is any in it). to me it is like saying that you should criticise a lamp in a still life photograph - saying that the lamp is not photogenic, for example, is nonsensical to me, since the poor lamp had not bearing or control on its role in the photograph. same goes for a tree in landscape. it is *precisely* because these are objects in the photograph that i feel that there is no need to comment on them. if you do feel something about the object, and you do think that the photographer had some control in it, and believe me he did, then phrasing should be directed at the photographer. if the lamp is realy, really, really not photogenic, then you should tell the photographer that you think there is no picture here.
    Actually, criticizing a lamp is valid. Many times I have looked at my photos and thought to myself, Why didn't I shoot that fence from the other angle?? or why didn't I shoot the other umbrella?? (in a row of umbrellas). Most of the time it is the attention to detail or lack thereof that makes or breaks a photo. Depending on the idea you want to convey, a scenic shot could be done on a sunny day or a cloudy day or a rainy day. Weather is not something you can control, nor is the dispersion of light due to the positions of the clouds, etc.

    You can't really criticize a lamp for being what it is, but you can always question each element's contribution to a photo.
    Available as a model, photographer, and art director/stylist.

  18. #198

    Default Re: Comments directed to models, why not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Triazolium View Post
    Actually, criticizing a lamp is valid. Many times I have looked at my photos and thought to myself, Why didn't I shoot that fence from the other angle?? or why didn't I shoot the other umbrella?? (in a row of umbrellas). Most of the time it is the attention to detail or lack thereof that makes or breaks a photo. Depending on the idea you want to convey, a scenic shot could be done on a sunny day or a cloudy day or a rainy day. Weather is not something you can control, nor is the dispersion of light due to the positions of the clouds, etc.

    You can't really criticize a lamp for being what it is, but you can always question each element's contribution to a photo.
    and thatś precisely what i am saying?

    you would not call a lamp ugly. it is not its fault, and if it is indeed ugly then the photographer should not shoot. if it is not actually ugly then the photographer screwed up his photograph, that is still nothing to do with the lamp being ugly.

  19. #199

    Default Re: Comments directed to models, why not.

    Quote Originally Posted by mystudio View Post
    Sad to say, the standard to MSW and MSU has deteriorated so much over the years.

    There are too many pagent contest going on and in almost every models profile, you will see them crowned as the winner or at least runners up for some dunno what pagent. All these pagent boost their ego and make them belief they are "special"!
    deteriorated?! they had standards to begin with in the first place?!

  20. #200

    Default Re: Comments directed to models, why not.

    no worries. i seem to have lost track of this thread in the meantime.

    re: model's feelings... nah, not saying that's what you're advocating. i mentioned it on my way to my next point (about whether or not commenting on the subject is relevant)

    i do know what you're saying - you feel that comments on the subject of the photograph don't help you improve as a photographer.

    there are, of course, all kinds of useful and not useful comments, and what determines their usefulness is not whether the comment is on the subject or not, but the spirit in which the comment is given, and the spirit in which it is received.

    and what i think you're saying here is that often comments on the models are given/taken in a manner that is not useful. they are at best meaningless and worse, can lead to pointless flaming. this, i can definitely agree with

    where you and i differ is this: you feel that because of the high rubbish quotient involved with these statements, they should be banned/discouraged. as for me, i'm a bit more inclined to let people say what they want, even if i don't like it.

    somehow this just reminds me about chewing gum: some people like to chew it, but many of them stick it everywhere, it dirties up our city, buses, trains and is costly to clean up. causes so many problems and the only good thing is that some people like to chew... why not just ban it right?

    as for my feeding of trolls... well, i didn't even realise i was

    i try my best (and i admit, i find this very difficult) to not go into an argument/discussion assuming that i am right. often i find in the course of discussion that my own logic is not faultless.

    anyway, i'm pleasantly surprised. this thread has made it through quite a number of pages far more sensibly than i dared hope.

    airport = you're back in sg?

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    sorry bro, not that i didn't want to reply, but i only saw this at 2 am when i was supposed to start walking to take the bus to the airport.

    anyways - when did i say that commenting on the model shoudl be barred because of any of her feelings? i don't give a damn what models feel, frankly, if i shoot one ever, which is highly unlikely, i will respect her as a person; otherwise if i see a model in a photograph i would probably give her as much respect as i would give the rocks i photograph at punggol. she's just part of a photograph. my main point, which i have repeated myself quite a few times, but everyone seems to be mixing up my opinions with everyone else's - is that what the bloody model looks like has zero to do with photographer - unless he can control it. if a model is ugly, then the photographer can take her from a better angle, if one EXISTS; if a model is pretty, then so what? giving such comments amount to treating the hpotographer like an absolute idiot, from my point of view. it is just like how people who only care about asking what equipment and lens was used to shoot this photograph, when posted photograph is WEB SIZED, is wasting the photographer's time.

    indeed, i do acknowledge your point that such statements MIGHT have merit in improving the photographer. it is also a double edged sword. you have photographers AND you have photographers. you are giving a GOOD situation where your photographer happens to think positively and critically. in a BAD situation, this photographer moves on and blames everything else other than himself. since people seem to do that for his photographs too. model not sharp enough? equipment af sucks. landscape underexposed? wa lau, my camera metering system lousy. model look like aunty? cos she look like aunty la, where got my fault, i cannot make aunty look like xmm what. i'm sure you get what i'm driving at.

    and that, in short, is why such statements should be barred, they end up creating threads like these, where trolls will lurk. the ones who don't care about critique, only about creating some sensational thing where they can vent personal vendettas. to be honest i'm quite curious why you are joining in feeding such trolls too. don't need to even explain basic logical fallacies to them.. if you have followed kopitiam long enough, every bloody post they ever make in response eventually is in essence, an ad hominem rant.
    Black lens, white Lens, can take picture is a Good lens

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