Help me choose!

[ricleo]

I currently own a 5D and a 70-400 F4L IS. Recently, I have come to realise that the 200mm focal length is a little too short for my requirements. There are a few options that I am considering at the moment, can you guys offer your opinions on the below?



Missed out on a chance to purchase a 100-400 earlier, so now have to look back to see if I should pay more for a newer 100-400 or get the alternative 1.4 extender + even a 450d

[Headshotzx]

200mm too short for you:

300mm f/4L IS - A great package, but 100mm might not be extremely different to you
400mm f/5.6L - A good package, but small aperture without IS means you'd need good support & good weather
100-400mmL - A good package, image quality not too good: I'd tick this off if I were you, since 100-200mm is already covered with your 70-200mm.

These are the ones that go for under S$2500.

[ricleo]

hmmm thanks for your response headshotz,

how about the option of getting the 450D + 1.4 extender?

400 F5.6, I did think about this before, but I place more importance on flexibility in framing the shot compared to the increase in image quality offered by a prime, and at F5.6 without IS, this is a pretty big minus for me.

300mm F4L IS, i guess the 100mm more does not seem enough for me , and the cost is much higher then the other options too.

Best regards,
Richard

[calebk]

What do you mainly need the longer range for? Indoor or outdoor applications? Specific usage?

[Headshotzx]

If you want to get a 450D just for the 1.6x, at least get the 40D, especially if you want to use it with a 1.4x cos the better autofocus will make focusing a lot faster/easier.

Tell you what, why not go get a 40D first? 1.6 x 200mm will give you 320mm, and you can work your way from there.

[elixir]

I have the same combi as you, the 5D and 70-200mm. Recently got the 300mm F4 IS with 1.4 extender. The reason why I didn't get the 100-400mmL is because it will make my 70-200L redundant, covering most of its range. Also, its optical quality is known to be not as good.

Quite happy with the optical and handling qualities of the 300mm lens. Will not hesitate to use the extender as well, as the image quality is still maintained. Only thiing is that AF is slower.

Best thing about the 300mm is that the minimum focusing distance is only 1.5m, even with the extender on. Good for some macro shots.

[ricleo]

True, a 40D makes sense also because it uses the same batteries and CF as the 5D hmmm.....i was thinking of the 450D mainly because a) its cheaper, b) its better live view implementation and c) the lighter weight + smaller size which makes it a convenient spare body to bring around.

I've no specific purposes for this lens, just find that in my general shooting, 200mm is lacking. Tried shooting some swans and their babies the other day, the 70-200 was great for the swans, but too short for their babies, end up cropping my 12mp 5D images to a 1-2 mp resolution. I'm not specifically into birding, but just like taking pictures of birds/planes on and off, as well as sunset pics, moon shots... I understand the limitations of the options i'm considering with regards to indoors/low light, and i'm not expecting to shoot indoor events with the combo.

I guess when i transitioned into the 5D from a 1.6 crop camera, i loved the wide angle at 16mm so much that i neglected to think about the long end. The 200mm seemed to be pretty sufficient when i was using the 1.6 crop, now i just want abit more haha....

[ricleo]

Originally Posted by elixir I have the same combi as you, the 5D and 70-200mm. Recently got the 300mm F4 IS with 1.4 extender. The reason why I didn't get the 100-400mmL is because it will make my 70-200L redundant, covering most of its range. Also, its optical quality is known to be not as good. Quite happy with the optical and handling qualities of the 300mm lens. Will not hesitate to use the extender as well, as the image quality is still maintained. Only thiing is that AF is slower. Best thing about the 300mm is that the minimum focusing distance is only 1.5m, even with the extender on. Good for some macro shots.

If i get the 100-400L, I will definitely sell off the 70-200 due to the duplicated focal length, and also because I will not be bringing out both lens at the same time

[Headshotzx]

Originally Posted by ricleo If i get the 100-400L, I will definitely sell off the 70-200 due to the duplicated focal length, and also because I will not be bringing out both lens at the same time

70-200mm > 100-400mm with far better image quality and built (70-200 doesn't extend).

If you get the 40D, you'll get 320mm. From then on, if you think it's still lacking, get the 1.4x tc. By this time you should be extremely satisfied already. But wait, what if you had just a spare bit of money to splurge on a prime? 300mm f/4IS is the way to go. Plus the 300mm can be coupled together with the 1.4x TC on the 1.6crop 40D to give you a whopping 672mm. Now don't tell me that that's still too short for you =)

Yes you can get the 450D, but since you have 'last gen' 5D tech, why not spend a bit more for the new-gen technology with better built and shooting speed? 40D man =)

[lennyl]

Originally Posted by Headshotzx If you want to get a 450D just for the 1.6x, at least get the 40D, especially if you want to use it with a 1.4x cos the better autofocus will make focusing a lot faster/easier.

The 450D, due to a higher resolution sensor, should give about 10% higher apparent zoom, if all things are equal. Meaning, at same focal length with same lens, with 40D and 450D, shooting same subject from same spot, if the subject is 100 pixels wide on the 40D, it will be 110 pixels wide on the 450D. I am not sure whether you will get more details with the 450D though (I haven't really paid much attention to the 450D).

Personally I'd go for the 40D and sacrifice that 10%. The ergonomics of the xxD is closer to a 5D.

There are also non Canon choices to consider, such as Tamron 200-500mm f/5.6-6.3 (AF slow from reviews), the Sigma 50-500mm and the Sigma 80-400mm.

[calebk]

Originally Posted by lennyl The 450D, due to a higher resolution sensor, should give about 10% higher apparent zoom, if all things are equal. Meaning, at same focal length with same lens, with 40D and 450D, shooting same subject from same spot, if the subject is 100 pixels wide on the 40D, it will be 110 pixels wide on the 450D. I am not sure whether you will get more details with the 450D though (I haven't really paid much attention to the 450D). ....

Where did you theorise this from? Both have the same 1.6x crop factor and produce the same perceived 320mm frame with a 200mm lens mounted.

Thought of why when you use 50mm on 350D, 400D, 450D, 20D, 30D or 40D, you still get the *same* field-of-view?

The only real difference you get when using a higher res sensor is that it allows you to end up with a larger remaining image after cropping.

[Headshotzx]

@ Lennyl- I believe the thread starter is trying to achieve a smaller native field-of-view without the aid of cropping. He already stated that he unintentionally reduced a 12mp shot to a 2mp shot by cropping what he wanted.

[lennyl]

Originally Posted by calebk Where did you theorise this from? Both have the same 1.6x crop factor and produce the same perceived 320mm frame with a 200mm lens mounted. Thought of why when you use 50mm on 350D, 400D, 450D, 20D, 30D or 40D, you still get the *same* field-of-view? The only real difference you get when using a higher res sensor is that it allows you to end up with a larger remaining image after cropping.

Guess I did not explain clearly enough. They have the same field of view, no disagreement from me here. But since more photosites (pixels) cover the same field of view, if you standardize everything to the same DPI (or PPI) you will have a slightly larger image.

Another way to think of it - if you take a 450D image, and crop away 20% of the pixels on the edge to produce a 10MP image, the FOV will be 1.1x compared to a 40D.

I guess "apparent zoom" is a poor choice of words but I don't know what else to call it.

[lennyl]

Originally Posted by Headshotzx @ Lennyl- I believe the thread starter is trying to achieve a smaller native field-of-view without the aid of cropping. He already stated that he unintentionally reduced a 12mp shot to a 2mp shot by cropping what he wanted.

The 5D has much larger photosites compared to a 40D or 450D even though it has higher resolution than a 40D.

The 450D, however, has smaller photosites as well as higher resolution compared to a 40D. If the amount of details is higher with a 450D (big IF here) then you can crop to the same size as a 40D image, and end up with a higher magnification. He's already cropping (though done in camera instead of on computer) by using a 1.6x camera over a full frame.

[Headshotzx]

...yeeaaah ok I get what you mean, but I doubt ricleo is referring to that.

[ricleo]

yup, everyone's correct here....if i get the 450d over the 40d, there will be slightly more cropping ability...but I don't believe the resolution advantage will be great...

Anyway....any idea what's the price of a 40d body only vs 450D kit? Been in London for too long and have not been keeping up with the local prices haha....

[lennyl]

Originally Posted by Headshotzx ...yeeaaah ok I get what you mean, but I doubt ricleo is referring to that.

Well it looks like the resolution is not one of his considerations though (and I agree 40D is a much better choice between the two cameras except for the price).

Off topic, 40D is available from B&H and a few other reputable stores for US$940 now. That's below S$1300 - may wipe out the 450D's price advantage? (Edit : posted before TS - guess it is no longer off topic )

Singapore Canon body and kit prices available from this sticky.

[calebk]

Ahh sorry lenny. Misunderstood.

The 40D body and 450D kit's prices are really close. Even locally, its only about S$400-S$500 difference between the two.

[Headshotzx]

There's a instant-rebate program for 40D in the US.

[bernstein1234]

Originally Posted by Headshotzx There's a instant-rebate program for 40D in the US.

Too bad its only for US citizens only and not internationally