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Thread: What's with all the equipment chase, when composition is paramount ?

  1. #21

    Talking

    Originally posted by marcwang
    When it comes down to Porsche and Proton, its just damn different man. The thrills of a Porsche is to die for. Will work my ass off for it ! Oh well, it just clearly voices down to priorities. To some people, the silence of the AF-S just makes them high. Hehe, no offence.
    wat'z the difference btw wanting to buy a porsche or proton and wanting to buy a 300mm/f2.8 or a 300mm/f4 ..... ?? .....


  2. #22
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    Originally posted by mpenza
    It applies in many other parts of life too. There are people who buy Porsche and people who buy Proton. Both are just cars with 4 wheels.... There are also people who live in bungaloos and some who live in 1-room flats.
    bungaloos? a tropical igloo?

    marcwang, 2k for "shiokness" is nothing new. one of my cycling acquaintances spent, according to him, over 10 grand on his cannondale bike

    so far, very few hobbies can actually put cash into your pocket, most i know take the $$$ away...

    speaking about the excitement of framing, perhaps it's the actual framing via the lens for the slr's, and the lcd framing, that puts the "kick" into photography
    Last edited by sehsuan; 25th June 2003 at 10:06 PM.

  3. #23
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    Originally posted by marcwang
    When it comes down to Porsche and Proton, its just damn different man. The thrills of a Porsche is to die for. Will work my ass off for it ! Oh well, it just clearly voices down to priorities. To some people, the silence of the AF-S just makes them high. Hehe, no offence.

    Yeah, its just an issue I want to voice out. Hope it doesnt start a flame war. Let them have that extra f-stop, I'll keep the change and go on a holiday to take pictures.
    Originally posted by marcwang
    Thats an interesting viewpoint.
    I honestly beg to differ, less I'm sponsered or something. But still, interesting viewpoint. I guess you enjoy your life very well indeed. I ask some of my friends, why do u really need that F5, and the casually say .... its just damn shiok. Hmm... makes sense now. But $2K for shiokness... hmm.... .
    One one hand, you said the thrills of a Porche is something you could die for, and you are willing to work you ass off for it; on the other hand, you question the validity of someone paying $2k extra on a piece of camera equipment for "shiokness"...

    Don't you see that they are the same? It is just a matter of priorities.

    Your subject of the thread, to me, is the same as asking, "What's with all the car chase, if getting from point A to point B safely is paramount?"

    To your friend, the difference between an F5 and a Kodak disposable P&S is probably as much as the difference between a Porche and a Proton to you. He is willing to spend $2K anf you are willing to spend $!!!!!!! for what may very well be the same level of "shiokness".

    This has been said many times already. One does not have to justify to the rest of the world (except his wife...) the type of photographic equipment he buys and uses. The same applies to the rest of the word. We have no right to expect that a person's quality of photos matches up with the $$ he spends on his photographic equipment.

    - Roy
    As complexity rises, precise statements lose meaning and meaningful statements lose precision.

  4. #24

    Default

    Originally posted by sehsuan
    bungaloos? a tropical igloo?

    marcwang, 2k for "shiokness" is nothing new. one of my cycling acquaintances spent, according to him, over 10 grand on his cannondale bike

    so far, very few hobbies can actually put cash into your pocket, most i know take the $$$ away...

    speaking about the excitement of framing, perhaps it's the actual framing via the lens for the slr's, and the lcd framing, that puts the "kick" into photography
    Well unless your "hobby" is carwashing.

    then you can go wash other people's car and get paid doing so.


  5. #25
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    good one, Winston

    the other hobby to earn money is to... sell things!

    exception: selling 2nd handed camera stuff that you've once used...

  6. #26

    Default

    hmm.... i see the many point of views. which is good.

  7. #27

    Default What Marc has shown himself to be with his post

    I feel that this Marc guy is kinda "how lian" or haughty.

    This characteristic of him and other traits are all over his post. Can you see that?

    I visited his pbase website. How can I not missed his fine collection when his pbase site link with a much larger font size is screaming at me to visit. This is because Marc and many other guests in the guest book think that his pictures are not bad. I have to compliment MArc's fine pictures too. Marc's certainly got the composition skills. I am sure that will make him feel real good.

    Apart from that he also writes a blog and that larger than normal font size site link is also shouting at others to visit him and pay him some attention. Bloggers clamour for attention, that partly why they blog.

    Marc should also think strongly that he has arrived in the photographic skills and "photographic eye" department with just the use of standard lens and is lamenting that many other people who have great lens cannot even shoot close to what he can achieve. This is the message he is trying to tell subtlely with his post. In short, he is an ego head.

    One thing I agreed strongly with is from Roy
    "This has been said many times already. One does not have to justify to the rest of the world (except his wife...) the type of photographic equipment he buys and uses. The same applies to the rest of the word. We have no right to expect that a person's quality of photos matches up with the $$ he spends on his photographic equipment."

    No one has the right to judge anyone just because he does not shoot pictures with lots of compliments on his guest book.
    Marc, no one also has the right to stop you from shooting you mind off on how good a composer you are versus others with better lens. I am posting because everyone has the right to see that your post bears the footprint of a person with an inflated personality and an enlarged ego.

    Note: "I have been into photography for hmm.... 1 year now, still pretty new to it. You can call me a newbie, and I wont argue about that." Do I smell false humility and hyprocrisy here?

    MArc, a word of advice kid.... Take more pictures and enjoy the attention with your nice pictures and blog. Don't shoot yourself in your foot by showing off your huge ego.

    Originally posted by marcwang
    Hie people,

    I have been into photography for hmm.... 1 year now, still pretty new to it. You can call me a newbie, and I wont argue about that.
    There is this aspect about photography, that interest me, yet irks me at the same time ; the equipment. I just cant justify, both for myself and others, the crazy prices of equipment as you move up the line. Many people seem to indulge in expensive, ultra fast, ultra sharp lenses just for the sake of owning it. I sometimes wonder, do they actually need it. I just cant seem to understand spending one grand more for a lense which is one or 2 stops faster, not unless the buyer is mad rich. How sharp would I want my lense to be, when its hardly discernible, less to blow it up A3 size. Why would I need a f2.8 300mm lense, when a f4 300mm does the job just as well. How often do we take shots wide open ? Its true the more expensive lenses render better pictures, but the opportunity cost is huge. When the pictures turn out, the differences is hardly noticeable, and even if there is a difference, so what ? Its the composition that takes my breath away, not how sharp pictures are. Sharpness is important, but an average lense, taken well ... will be sharp enough to impress. The equipment chase is maddening. I just cant justify it, NOT UNLESS you are a professional who does photography for a living. I dont mean buying the crappiest lense out there, but even a nikon 28-80mm G lense can make impressive pictures. Sometimes the pictures people produce, just doesnt justify the lense. Perhaps its only human....... to lust over big, fast, extravagent stuff. Hmm.... its like buying a Mercedes S600 when a S320 does the job so frigging well... . Oh well, ... . I dont have that kind of dough. I'll just keep snapping.
    Last edited by 10Der; 26th June 2003 at 01:30 AM.

  8. #28

    Default

    Well well, thanks for complimenting my pbase webby. Sometimes, we just have to get things off our chest. I know I'm blunt, not that I love to be. I'm not tactful, that I wished I had. Sometimes we just want to voice opinions, sometimes we offend people. When I have something to say, I just blurt it, I see no reason hiding. Dont read too deep into my sentences for my language is not good 'nuff for discreet sarcarsm. Blunt, I may be, but boastful, I think not. Forgive my bluntness.


    And yeap, I will heed your advise and take more pictures and be happy. Still a long way to go really, though I must say I would do better with an addition of a wide angle lense (Tamron 19-35mm wuld be good 'nuff)which I financially cannot justify as yet. No pun intended. Cheers.
    Last edited by marcwang; 26th June 2003 at 11:53 AM.

  9. #29

    Default Re: What's with all the equipment chase, when composition is paramount ?

    Originally posted by marcwang
    Hie people,

    There is this aspect about photography, that interest me, yet irks me at the same time ; the equipment. I just cant justify, both for myself and others, the crazy prices of equipment as you move up the line. Many people seem to indulge in expensive, ultra fast, ultra sharp lenses just for the sake of owning it. I sometimes wonder, do they actually need it. I just cant seem to understand spending one grand more for a lense which is one or 2 stops faster, not unless the buyer is mad rich. How sharp would I want my lense to be, when its hardly discernible, less to blow it up A3 size. Why would I need a f2.8 300mm lense, when a f4 300mm does the job just as well. How often do we take shots wide open ? Its true the more expensive lenses render better pictures, but the opportunity cost is huge. When the pictures turn out, the differences is hardly noticeable, and even if there is a difference, so what ? Its the composition that takes my breath away, not how sharp pictures are. Sharpness is important, but an average lense, taken well ... will be sharp enough to impress. The equipment chase is maddening. I just cant justify it, NOT UNLESS you are a professional who does photography for a living. I dont mean buying the crappiest lense out there, but even a nikon 28-80mm G lense can make impressive pictures. Sometimes the pictures people produce, just doesnt justify the lense. Perhaps its only human....... to lust over big, fast, extravagent stuff. Hmm.... its like buying a Mercedes S600 when a S320 does the job so frigging well... . Oh well, ... . I dont have that kind of dough. I'll just keep snapping.
    If you REALLY feel photography is really not about equipment, take the list of gears off your sig. Then don't need to justify your choice of lens/camera/tripod/etc anymore... Or wonder why other people have better/worse stuff than yours..

  10. #30
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    Default Re: Re: What's with all the equipment chase, when composition is paramount ?

    Originally posted by argent2
    If you REALLY feel photography is really not about equipment, take the list of gears off your sig. Then don't need to justify your choice of lens/camera/tripod/etc anymore... Or wonder why other people have better/worse stuff than yours..
    Nicely stated.
    --
    "High Wired, Dream Sired"

  11. #31

    Default

    hmm... its getting hot in here.

    I'm basically voicing down to the over emphasis of picture quality over photography itself. Photography was never meant to be perfect, and perfection was never guarantees a good picture. Seems like in many cases, we only talk about picture quality, composition almost comes second, when in fact it should be the other way round. The equipment chase is bringing photography into murky waters in many cases, not unless the photographer is focus. I'm not saying equipment aint important, just that we should start really taking pictures before talking abt real equipment. If I'm a brag, I wouldnt list my equipment, they are probably rubbish to many.

    This thread was never intended to be provoking. If it did provoke you, perhaps, we gotta think. I'm in photography, for the sake of beauty, not perfection. I hope some people get what I'm saying, rather than simply join in the crowd and start flaming. I'm only 21, money is hard to come by, and thats perhaps why I weigh my opportunities and maximise what I have.

  12. #32

    Default

    Originally posted by marcwang
    hmm... its getting hot in here.

    I'm basically voicing down to the over emphasis of picture quality over photography itself. Photography was never meant to be perfect, and perfection was never guarantees a good picture. Seems like in many cases, we only talk about picture quality, composition almost comes second, when in fact it should be the other way round. The equipment chase is bringing photography into murky waters in many cases, not unless the photographer is focus. I'm not saying equipment aint important, just that we should start really taking pictures before talking abt real equipment. If I'm a brag, I wouldnt list my equipment, they are probably rubbish to many.

    This thread was never intended to be provoking. If it did provoke you, perhaps, we gotta think. I'm in photography, for the sake of beauty, not perfection. I hope some people get what I'm saying, rather than simply join in the crowd and start flaming. I'm only 21, money is hard to come by, and thats perhaps why I weigh my opportunities and maximise what I have.
    Have you seriously considered what you are saying? Bear in mind that all the above opinions are solely yours and are not absolutes.

    The thing is that you are now seeing the world through your own perspective and circumstances, have you tried visualizing the world through the eyes of others?

    What appears sufficient or less critical to you is only valid for you and YOU alone. There are other people with other opinions, needs and interests. It is obvious from the onset that you are not a sports/action shooter and would hence question the need for fast lenses which are sharp wide open.

    Perhaps if you tried thinking on the other side of the fence, you wouldn't be so troubled by your many queries.

  13. #33
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    Originally posted by marcwang
    hmm... its getting hot in here.

    I'm basically voicing down to the over emphasis of picture quality over photography itself. Photography was never meant to be perfect, and perfection was never guarantees a good picture. Seems like in many cases, we only talk about picture quality, composition almost comes second, when in fact it should be the other way round. The equipment chase is bringing photography into murky waters in many cases, not unless the photographer is focus. I'm not saying equipment aint important, just that we should start really taking pictures before talking abt real equipment. If I'm a brag, I wouldnt list my equipment, they are probably rubbish to many.

    This thread was never intended to be provoking. If it did provoke you, perhaps, we gotta think. I'm in photography, for the sake of beauty, not perfection. I hope some people get what I'm saying, rather than simply join in the crowd and start flaming. I'm only 21, money is hard to come by, and thats perhaps why I weigh my opportunities and maximise what I have.
    Hot? In here? Trust me Marc, it has barely warmed up yet.. but before you go on, i hope you realise that althought you may percieve there might be a culture of equipment being more important pictures, you need to understand that quite afew of us are hard at work correcting that mentality by sharing our critiques and such instead of chatting abt equipment...

    At the same time, there has been initiatives by different CS'ers organising shoots and gatherings, trying to impart, share and exchange ideas and concepts...

    So if you truly wish to make your point, you can also contribute but helping out and sharing...
    Last edited by Wolfgang; 26th June 2003 at 02:28 PM.
    --
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  14. #34

    Default

    Lastly,

    What other people do with their money and hobby is their own perogative. Trying to impose your view on others or to be judgemental on the purchasing decisions on others simply smacks of elitism or photo-nazism.

    Afterall, who died and went to heaven and made you the final arbiter of what is to be?

    If you would care to do a search there have been numerous threads about this topic since time immemorial. Often these are started out of the blue by individuals who may be undergoing some personal conflict and seek an outlet for their inner frustration.

    Reading all the past threads would probably yield the answers that you seek.

  15. #35
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    Originally posted by marcwang
    Well well, thanks for complimenting my pbase webby. Sometimes, we just have to get things off our chest. I know I'm blunt, not that I love to be. I'm not tactful, that I wished I had. Sometimes we just want to voice opinions, sometimes we offend people. When I have something to say, I just blurt it, I see no reason hiding. Dont read too deep into my sentences for my language is not good 'nuff for discreet sarcarsm. Blunt, I may be, but boastful, I think not. Forgive my bluntness.


    And yeap, I will heed your advise and take more pictures and be happy. Still a long way to go really, though I must say I would do better with an addition of a wide angle lense (Tamron 19-35mm wuld be good 'nuff)which I financially cannot justify as yet. No pun intended. Cheers.
    The issue I have with what you've said has nothing to do with your bluntness or lack of tact. It has to do with your half cooked attack against people who indulge themselves in owning and using high end photographic equipment while you brag about your own yearning for a Porche.

    Attributing the reaction of others towards you to your so called "bluntness" or "tactlessness" is just another lame tactic to avoid admitting that you initial argument is invalid.

    By the way, the differnece between someone who just blurts out when he has something to say, and someone who thinks through his ideas, and making sure what he says makes sense and is meaningful before he says it, is the level of maturity. Guess which one is more mature?

    Originally posted by marcwang
    Many people seem to indulge in expensive, ultra fast, ultra sharp lenses just for the sake of owning it. I sometimes wonder, do they actually need it.
    Originally posted by marcwang
    When it comes down to Porsche and Proton, its just damn different man. The thrills of a Porsche is to die for. Will work my ass off for it ! Oh well, it just clearly voices down to priorities. To some people, the silence of the AF-S just makes them high. Hehe, no offence.
    I would like to hear how you rationalize your willingness to "work your ass off" for a Porche. Do you actually need it?
    As complexity rises, precise statements lose meaning and meaningful statements lose precision.

  16. #36
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    Originally posted by Zerstorer
    ...
    It is obvious from the onset that you are not a sports/action shooter and would hence question the need for fast lenses which are sharp wide open.
    agreed!

    Wolfgang, i think he's based in Australia. how he help? fly over, help out and fly back?

  17. #37

    Default Marc: Stop airing your views on this no more

    Kid,

    it will do you more good to just finish it off here.

    the more you justify yourself and the topic, the more loopholes you exposed for people to flame you. one thing is for sure, people already knew you have an ego problem and undergoing an education down-under at 21 years old learning to be so blunt and shooting your head off in all directions when you feel like it... you better change before you grow older.

    I knew Western education is vocal... I did not see Western education as vocal and one-sided. Perhaps it is only in your character.. to just see it in your own perspective and blare it out loudly only to face so many people who strongly disagree. You better change before you grow older. The world is not just about you, your own perspectives and your blog log.

    Or like what Wolfgang said go contirbute and share your skills and pictures.. Create your audience and make them audience enjoy your pictures.


    Originally posted by marcwang
    hmm... its getting hot in here.

    I'm basically voicing down to the over emphasis of picture quality over photography itself. Photography was never meant to be perfect, and perfection was never guarantees a good picture. Seems like in many cases, we only talk about picture quality, composition almost comes second, when in fact it should be the other way round. The equipment chase is bringing photography into murky waters in many cases, not unless the photographer is focus. I'm not saying equipment aint important, just that we should start really taking pictures before talking abt real equipment. If I'm a brag, I wouldnt list my equipment, they are probably rubbish to many.

    This thread was never intended to be provoking. If it did provoke you, perhaps, we gotta think. I'm in photography, for the sake of beauty, not perfection. I hope some people get what I'm saying, rather than simply join in the crowd and start flaming. I'm only 21, money is hard to come by, and thats perhaps why I weigh my opportunities and maximise what I have.

  18. #38
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    Ok, alright.. brakes on, lets not get personal here aye?

    Our young friend here obviously just wanted to share his view and whatever his intentions may be ( the path to hell is often paved with good intention though ) lets just hope what we have shared here will allow all of us to learn something...

    Now, Marc, wherever you may be, you can always help still, by offering constrcutive critiques when you come across a shot, by sharing how to use your F80 (which is very decent compared to my F601) with other newbies who might have the very same camera...

    So, let's just take a step back, breath and move on...
    --
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  19. #39

    Default Brakes applied...

    Screeched.....
    Brakes applied.

  20. #40
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    Hi

    every now and then such postings turn up, which reflects nothing more than insecurity on the part of such posters themselves...

    Marc, how can anyone take u seriously when u're lusting after a Porsche? So that means secretly you do lust after what you cannot get, and u're getting frustrated, so u vent out in a public forum on the pretext of pictures being more important than than the equipment......

    u need to take ur own advice and go out and take more pictures instead of worrying about (other pple's) equipment....

    oh btw why do u need a F80? Wouldn't a F65 do just as well? Wat's with the F80 that you can't do with a F65?

    David Teo
    View my work and blog at http://www.5stonesphoto.com/blog

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