The "I Can't Put My Finger To It But Something's Missing" Shot

[Zichar]

Have you ever had the moment whereby you feel like you've taken an excellent shot, but there seems to be something not quite right about it? That's not to say you don't love it, quite the contrary, it's one of your fav shot and yet...

So yeah, I love this one to bits. Even framed a large version of it for my colleague (she's pregnant, avoids eating fatty fish due to heavy metal poisoning). I acknowledge that the head should probably be sharper, though at that point in time I had to shoot and move my butt out of the way quick.

The PP done was partly the mood I was looking for: the interplay between life and death, man over beast, invoking sadness at the grotesque, an almost perverse fascination. It's like a traffic accident at the side of the road, you want to look but you don't want to look.
Pure B&W didn't quite work, the main subject was too dark for any meaningful dodging/burning. Full colour isn't too shabby, but rather cluttered. Perhaps the background should have been more blur.

What's your take on this, guys?

[edarkflame]

sorry but i can't seem to make out what is 'excellent' about this shot. i can only barely make out that the piece of thing is a fish. and there's a huge box on the wall that is too distracting and i don't know why you have to make one half in b/w and the other half in colour. a little undecided over there

[night86mare]

firstly, the half half conversion does not work. selective colour only works when you wish to bring focus using exemption of color from anything distracting from your subject. here, your primary subject is the fish. so your colorful background in the distance distracts from it.

i suggest *full* conversion to bnw.

other than that, i think the composition is a tad awkward. somehow it is theoretically sound, i.e. the fish acts as a leading line into the background, but i'm thinking moving to the left of where you were, and perhaps trying a lower+closer angle, and shooting vertically would work. alternatively, move to the left, and shoot to crop in a more "squarish" though not necessarily square ratio later on, something like 4:3 should be good here.

lastly, frankly, this looks like a scene in a fish market. there is nothing of the message you wish to convey.

[Parchiao]

Transition from B&W to colour?

[Zichar]

Originally Posted by edarkflame sorry but i can't seem to make out what is 'excellent' about this shot. i can only barely make out that the piece of thing is a fish. and there's a huge box on the wall that is too distracting and i don't know why you have to make one half in b/w and the other half in colour. a little undecided over there

Note personal feel of excellence One man's meat... hmm literally haha
The half-half was, as per write-up, meant to convey the bustling life inside and the still darkness outside. Guess that kind of failed Can see why it does actually, never really noticed it's really half-half. The symmetry wasn't intended.

[Zichar]

Originally Posted by night86mare firstly, the half half conversion does not work. selective colour only works when you wish to bring focus using exemption of color from anything distracting from your subject. here, your primary subject is the fish. so your colorful background in the distance distracts from it. i suggest *full* conversion to bnw. other than that, i think the composition is a tad awkward. somehow it is theoretically sound, i.e. the fish acts as a leading line into the background, but i'm thinking moving to the left of where you were, and perhaps trying a lower+closer angle, and shooting vertically would work. alternatively, move to the left, and shoot to crop in a more "squarish" though not necessarily square ratio later on, something like 4:3 should be good here. lastly, frankly, this looks like a scene in a fish market. there is nothing of the message you wish to convey.

I've got a vertical shot actually but felt that was worse because the fish, being long lying horizontally, messes up the scale of things, ratio with the door, etc. Echoing edarkflame's comment, perhaps it's the indecision that fails the shot: when I read, "here, your primary subject is the fish", I hesitated thinking "No, wait a minute..."

And yes it is a scene from a fish market. But the size of these creatures, well, it took them quite a while to grow this size. Just saddens me to see them lying on the cold floor, dragged around on wooden trolleys. Not that I'm always anthropomorphic about food...

[Zichar]

Originally Posted by Parchiao Transition from B&W to colour?

Full colour's lagi confusing and cluttered. Perhaps it's time to muck around with PS again. Confirm die if my CO sees me messing with 'the fish photo again' though, especially on a public holiday.

[night86mare]

Originally Posted by Zichar I've got a vertical shot actually but felt that was worse because the fish, being long lying horizontally, messes up the scale of things, ratio with the door, etc. Echoing edarkflame's comment, perhaps it's the indecision that fails the shot: when I read, "here, your primary subject is the fish", I hesitated thinking "No, wait a minute..."

firstly, don't understand why you're so concerned about the scale of things. if you use a wide angle lens, it is precisely because you would like to mess up the scale of things. you make no sense here, because even when it is in horizontal format, are you telling me that the scale is good? the fish is big as the market door?

secondly, then what is your primary subject? the idea? if that is so, then there is no subject.

lastly, i hope you didn't post this up hoping to get "very good!" "very nice!" "oh, but there's nothing wrong, dude, it's perfect!" comments; because frankly your response to any comment here seems to be a tad overly defensive.

[Zichar]

Originally Posted by night86mare firstly, don't understand why you're so concerned about the scale of things. if you use a wide angle lens, it is precisely because you would like to mess up the scale of things. you make no sense here, because even when it is in horizontal format, are you telling me that the scale is good? the fish is big as the market door? secondly, then what is your primary subject? the idea? if that is so, then there is no subject. lastly, i hope you didn't post this up hoping to get "very good!" "very nice!" "oh, but there's nothing wrong, dude, it's perfect!" comments; because frankly your response to any comment here seems to be a tad overly defensive.

Yikes, wasn't trying to be defensive. Sorry if I came across as such. Just fret a lot about how it should look and what's wrong, more worry than anything Maybe I shouldn't overanalyse too

[nigel84]

a few things i noticed at the first glance, firstly if the fish was supposed to be the main eye-catcher, it wasn't sharp. If the BG was supposed to be the subject it too wasn't sharp. And what told me it was a fish, was not because it looked like a fish, but because of the fin. Apparently all features of the fish were lost. If you were looking for something that really portrays life and death, there should be a scene which i believe commonly seen in the market. Eg. When the fish monger actually drags the dead fish along the floor. Take it in protrait mode. Or maybe a rarer sight, a still semi life fish held by the hook with its tail still fliping.

[espion]

u framed it for ur fren? He/she asked for it or u give/force it to him/her?

the missing thing is the "subject", ie what is the picture about.

And this is not what u say or try to impose into a picture, but what the picture say, or dont say. Try this test: dun title a picture, dun say anything about what u feel/think about it, and ask someone else to title it for you.

Right now the picture is not saying anything although it might ... like dead big tuna fish ... but then the tuna fish does not seem to be focal point in the picture but rather the empty space .... which does not say anything

So if I do the test for you, my title for this pic is empty space with a tuna distraction

[ndroo]

A complete b&w will probably look better. The PP you've done, does nothing in helping the photo which to me isn't bad if it's to document the actual scene at the market(?).

"the interplay between life and death, man over beast, invoking sadness at the grotesque, an almost perverse fascination. It's like a traffic accident at the side of the road, you want to look but you don't want to look" <-- maybe you are trying to hard to paint a picture there but I'm sure some (or most?) are not buying.

Just my honest thoughts.

[catchlights]

my goodness, you really print it and frame it up to give it to a pregnant woman?
That's very bad, you should give her a photo which very cheerful type, best is some cute cute baby photos, so she can looking forward to deliver her baby and forget about all the pains and suffering during pregnancy.

put yourself in her shoes, would you want to see a dead being laying motionless in a tragedy way frame up big big and see it everyday?

[espion]

maybe the pic actually says something ... it says a dead, unrecognisable body, whom no one wants, and everyone is distancing themselves from, as depicted by the faraway out of focused crowd and the big empty space ... an underlying tinge of the macabre perhaps inspired unconsciously by the horror movie genre ... r u a fan of the macabre?

the transition from B&W to colour is like a transition from death to life, something you want out of your mind to something you rather is reality ...

[Zichar]

You don't really know her, but my relationship with my friend is, umm, quirky Haha. In fact it's hanging in her office and she seems to like it. Not sure if she's the kind who goes for cutesy stuff. Digression aside, back to the picture, the fish isn't exactly the main subject, but the scene is. If that makes any sense at all. And to further compound that, I'm glad you took some time to think of what it's trying to say, espion. Never did think of it that way myself either but it is an interesting perspective.
But the fact that I have to use so many words to tell the tale, instead of letting the picture do that, well, means I've failed

Oh I have quite a few blur shots of my time in the market: I agree that would have made a great shot - the guys had these hooks and yeah, they really dragged the fishes across the floor. Never thought of that at that time, shucks

Plus, showed it to some other friends. Most commented the tail fin stuffed in the gills is rather confusing, i.e. can't quite tell it's a fish until you look carefully.

Hope night86mare isn't still mad. I'm sorry if I said something out of line here. Tried to be descriptive of my thoughts. Really meant no malice.

[night86mare]

Originally Posted by Zichar Hope night86mare isn't still mad. I'm sorry if I said something out of line here. Tried to be descriptive of my thoughts. Really meant no malice.

nah, i'm not pissed off, why would i be?

it's never personal, don't take it too hard, just have nothing more to say.

[Zichar]

Thanks If you don't mind me asking a lil' OT, do you use a tablet to do your PP work? I took the liberty of checking out your gallery, your pictures are really good especially the mix of colours.

[night86mare]

Originally Posted by Zichar Thanks If you don't mind me asking a lil' OT, do you use a tablet to do your PP work? I took the liberty of checking out your gallery, your pictures are really good especially the mix of colours.

nope, i don't.. just a simple ol' mouse. the only work close to requiring tablet that i do is just multiplying the sky slightly. since most of my horizons are pretty clearcut, just using the shift key and the mouse and a lot of vigorous left right movement is sufficient.

[wxwayne]

TS, I kinda liked the shot. It could have been better if you had shot more of the face of the fish so there will be a clearer point of interest. I don't think the half-BW worked though, it takes away the attention from the tuna, which i assume is your subject.Maybe u want to experiment with the people in the background in BW while the fish in colour? but its an interesting shot of the fish market, don't let the comments of others get to you. Don't be too concerned over the technicals the rule of thirds etc, they are just guides, photography is an art. I think Espion was a little overly critical, a lot of people seem to be on this forum to be bitter. A good photo's not something mechanical you achieve by applying all the rules and what's not. Techniques while important should be place a limit on creativity. I appreciate your experiment with the half BW, even if the effect did not turn out well. Keep Shooting!

[nigel84]

Originally Posted by wxwayne TS, I kinda liked the shot. It could have been better if you had shot more of the face of the fish so there will be a clearer point of interest. I don't think the half-BW worked though, it takes away the attention from the tuna, which i assume is your subject.Maybe u want to experiment with the people in the background in BW while the fish in colour? but its an interesting shot of the fish market, don't let the comments of others get to you. Don't be too concerned over the technicals the rule of thirds etc, they are just guides, photography is an art. I think Espion was a little overly critical, a lot of people seem to be on this forum to be bitter. A good photo's not something mechanical you achieve by applying all the rules and what's not. Techniques while important should be place a limit on creativity. I appreciate your experiment with the half BW, even if the effect did not turn out well. Keep Shooting!

I beg to differ, what Espion had done was remarkably well. He had questioned TS beyond the initial chain of thoughts. And to disagree with you even more would be the fact that a lot of people seem to be bitter on this forum. Remember success is always bitter sweet. And usually the best medicine is bitter. On the contrary, if TS had posted something with immense potential, it would had brought praises from all over the place. I agree with rules are meant to be broken, but not till you are adapt with them. Bending the rules are at times playing with fire. You really have to handle them well. Lastly, blocking of comments and not having them sink into your head might be a one way direction to failure. As each harsh negative comment that comes makes you think even harder on why had you not done this, why not that? It really does train you to think before you reach your destination of your next shoot, trains you to think on your feet when you are right on the spot, train you to handle tricky situations with limiting factors and not forgetting training you to be a better photographer. Without such valuable inputs from others, it might not trigger the photographer's sense in oneself. And the learning trail continues....