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Thread: Singapore Photography Forum: Encouraging Photography or Encouraging Exploiting?

  1. #1

    Default Singapore Photography Forum: Encouraging Photography or Encouraging Exploiting?

    As mention, why was thread looking for ppl interested in photography to shoot a job for low rates or no pay allowed?

    A forum encouraging photography should make it clear in it's own that exploiting was not encouarged at all. It shd not be even allowed at all, appearing at service sections.

    Like models looking to exploit hobbyist, they cannot even pose and have yet to handle enough jobs to charge, yet they are allowed to start a thread wanting ppl to pay.

    All this is rubbish, a local photography forum shd not have such thread allowed in the first place. Rubbish will lead to more rubbish, in the end forums becomes a rubbish place...

    If $8 per hr was not call exploit, then this forums was kinda sick already.
    Eat breath LIVERPOOL!!!

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Singapore Photography Forum: Encouraging Photography or Encouraging Exploiting?

    Woah... i thought there was a thread few weeks back discussing a similar issue.

    I feel that this forum encourages freedom of action for both models and photographers to decide the type of shoots and rates involved. However this has led to many of us forum users to feel distasteful about how some of them are gearing towards "exploitation" as mentioned by TS.

    Personally, although I have not been to any of such model shoots before, but the emergence of quite a few threads in the service section caught my attention. I remembered in dec last year, there was a surge of young girls with zero or very little relevant modelling experience who wants to ply themselves as models for TFCD, which leads to payment due to "unexpectedly huge offers for TFCD". However recently, this has tamed down quite a bit due to the ongoing discussions regarding this matter.

    Regarding the idea of exploitation, some may feel that it is going out of hand. For example, just to shoot a wedding, someone may post and offer his services for like $10 per hour??? I'm not sure what is the stand of the moderators or the creators of this forum, do they intend to allow free expression (within social control) to allow unrestrictive mechanism of services to take place OR to have an iron grip on the topic posted? I feel that it is hard to monitor and pass judgement whether a post is beneficial to the forum community.

    All of us here are old enough to discern what is appropriate or not, whether a particular post amounts to exploitation of any kind... For me, I think the most we can do is to black list the person. Either via a consolidated thread or reviving and revamping the itrader function.

    There are all sorts of ppl in a forum, what more Clubsnap. I'm sure there are ethics abiding forummers while there are certainly black sheeps out there to ruin the name of photography... Point is... we can't stop them.

    So when such things happen, one word = SIGH
    Dun blame the camera...blame the one behind the viewfinder :bsmilie:
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  3. #3

    Default Re: Singapore Photography Forum: Encouraging Photography or Encouraging Exploiting?

    this issue has been drummed to death.

    but some things never change - in a sense you have to see that it will exist - there are doofs who leap like sheep into a fire, and there are people who are starstruck by xmms and will pay through the nose even though it is not warranted.

    this is life. it's a dog-eat-dog world. what you can do, is provide education such that the newbies will not provide cheap/free photography service, nor pay fees that are too extravagant given the experience/quality of models here.

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    Default Re: Singapore Photography Forum: Encouraging Photography or Encouraging Exploiting?

    一个愿打, 一个愿挨.
    怨得谁也

  5. #5

    Default Re: Singapore Photography Forum: Encouraging Photography or Encouraging Exploiting?

    The problems is to encourage photography, these is not the correct way, by having exploitation threads ard, it will be harmfull to alot of newbies.

    It's not correct at all.
    Eat breath LIVERPOOL!!!

  6. #6

    Default Re: Singapore Photography Forum: Encouraging Photography or Encouraging Exploiting?

    exploitation is relative and everything have it's price point relative to the person who buys.

    so what if a few xmm have part-time modelling in their holidays? is the industry on the whole going to collaspe? I don't think so, at most they shift overseas to a more sustainable envrionment.

    btw, have any sg models made to those international status yet? apologies if I'm ignorant.
    Gallery | Facebook Page Spreading the Good photography.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Singapore Photography Forum: Encouraging Photography or Encouraging Exploiting?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotoudavid View Post
    The problems is to encourage photography, these is not the correct way, by having exploitation threads ard, it will be harmfull to alot of newbies.

    It's not correct at all.
    what's harmful? if they are only doing it for fun, no issue mah.

    the market is changing, it will be flooded with cam totting "photographers".
    Gallery | Facebook Page Spreading the Good photography.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Sion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Singapore Photography Forum: Encouraging Photography or Encouraging Exploiting?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotoudavid View Post
    If $8 per hr was not call exploit, then this forums was kinda sick already.
    This is not the question of exploitation. It's a matter of satisfaction.

    Some people are shooting for passion but never for money.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Singapore Photography Forum: Encouraging Photography or Encouraging Exploiting?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotoudavid View Post
    The problems is to encourage photography, these is not the correct way, by having exploitation threads ard, it will be harmfull to alot of newbies.

    It's not correct at all.
    well this is exactly like the charity conundrum.

    you see, when you give food and necessities to the poor, this may not be what they need - you aren't actually giving them what they WANT to get.

    so what are you giving them? whose wants are you fulfilling - your own.

    i understand how you feel, i also don't want photography to go the way of radioactive hdrs, have expressed it here before; but all you can do is express your view - you can only control yourself. if there are xmms there, there will be gwcs willing to shoot them. the best we can do is to not fuel their desire to shoot xmm. other than some innate primal desire being fulfilled, the fact that some of them are being ENCOURAGED to do so - i.e. when you see photographers getting exploited, there will be people arguing that it's their choice to be exploited; when you see xmm pictures, there will be people nosebleeding - all these add on and cause more and more gwc.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Singapore Photography Forum: Encouraging Photography or Encouraging Exploiting?

    Quote Originally Posted by CYRN View Post

    btw, have any sg models made to those international status yet? apologies if I'm ignorant.
    i'm pretty sure that if sion tried hard enough, and worked more, he would have a chance


  11. #11
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    Default Re: Singapore Photography Forum: Encouraging Photography or Encouraging Exploiting?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotoudavid View Post
    As mention, why was thread looking for ppl interested in photography to shoot a job for low rates or no pay allowed?

    A forum encouraging photography should make it clear in it's own that exploiting was not encouarged at all. It shd not be even allowed at all, appearing at service sections.

    Like models looking to exploit hobbyist, they cannot even pose and have yet to handle enough jobs to charge, yet they are allowed to start a thread wanting ppl to pay.

    All this is rubbish, a local photography forum shd not have such thread allowed in the first place. Rubbish will lead to more rubbish, in the end forums becomes a rubbish place...

    If $8 per hr was not call exploit, then this forums was kinda sick already.
    for us looking after Services, the general rule of thumb is as long as it is NOT ASKING SOMETHING FOR NOTHING (sans good-cause charity like the upcoming Myanmar fundraising), we generally exercise some leeway in not closing off these threads HOPING that people will exercise some form of common sense in NOT taking up these exploitive jobs.

    but, end of the day, people will still continue to post these pittance jobs becos there will be people who will do it.
    If Life worked on auto mode then manual mode for photography would have never existed. ― Deeksha Mittal

  12. #12

    Default Re: Singapore Photography Forum: Encouraging Photography or Encouraging Exploiting?

    If we really want to restrict green models, then we must also make sure that green photographers also cannot start a thread to advertise themselves liao lor. Otherwise people will complain of double standards. Next time, just ask the admin to bar photographers and models below two years of experience from advertising. You want that? You want to increase the mods' work load by going through all our login history and resume?
    Overall I think most photographers have eyes to see. Who is worth it and who is not is not difficult to see. This world has been unfair since the big bang. Beautiful girls still get some advantage although they may not have experience. Similarly, some photographers still can earn money although their shooting can't really make it. I guess you have seen very jialat photos in women's magazines.

    Some people here clearly are biased against people who shoot xmms. Because they are so good now, they become proud and they forget that they started out shooting xmm! Some even seldom shoot portraits and they dare to criticize people here! Shoot xmms means primal desire? Where did you get that hallucination? If shooting xmms means primal desires, then shooting landscape means autism liao lor. Anyway, there are all sorts of people in the world. I respect that. Some people are expressive - they express their likes and emotions. However some are too serious and angelic. For example, one word 'nosebleed' can make them boil to arc welding temperature. The word 'nosebleed' is a commonly-used word in China and Taiwan. Now I never use it in Clubsnap (as I know there are lots of ngeow people here ), but I use the word a lot when I am in Chinese websites.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Singapore Photography Forum: Encouraging Photography or Encouraging Exploiting?

    Quote Originally Posted by leejay View Post
    Some people here clearly are biased against people who shoot xmms. Because they are so good now, they become proud and they forget that they started out shooting xmm! Some even seldom shoot portraits and they dare to criticize people here! Shoot xmms means primal desire? Where did you get that hallucination? If shooting xmms means primal desires, then shooting landscape means autism liao lor. Anyway, there are all sorts of people in the world. I respect that. Some people are expressive - they express their likes and emotions. However some are too serious and angelic. For example, one word 'nosebleed' can make them boil to arc welding temperature. The word 'nosebleed' is a commonly-used word in China and Taiwan. Now I never use it in Clubsnap (as I know there are lots of ngeow people here ), but I use the word a lot when I am in Chinese websites.
    i think this personal attack is very unwarranted - note that i never said that anyone shooting xmm is problematic. have you seen me showing anything but respect to kongo? i think if one must shoot xmm, then one should try to shoot like kongo. or a few other people here who obviously know what they are doing.

    if you shoot and snap and shoot and snap and never improve, then what are you shooting xmm for, i ask you? to pass time? can la, but don't spoil market for everyone else, and don't post up inferior pictures and expect praise.

    if you must shoot xmm, by all means, but doesn't mean you just snap snap snap away and don't learn anything. or are you taking this a bit too personally beacuse you think you fall into the category of gwc?

    i think some of us have a lot of better things to do than to look at POORLY taken pictures of xmm when there are much better in comparison. it is also a fact that if no gwc around, then the market will naturally return to a state where the xmm will not anyhow charge because no gwc to anyhow pay and meet the demand for their supply.

    btw, when i was talking about blatant encouragement, yours was the name that came to the top of the list. poorly taken, poorly composed, poorly DI'ed, wherever these photos can be found, no doubt sure will have your name there saying "very good job" despite 8 other people slamming the thread. being nice to newbies is fine - maybe even sugarcoating so that they don't go all discouraged is also good in its own way. but to just turn a blind eye and heap nothing but praise to pictures which have so much room for improvement, i think that is as bad as you telling a kid who's failling school that he has a fine attitude and that he can be a big businessman for sure. we need moderates, not soft touching sugar candy cane handout daddies.

    lastly - "hardly even shoot portrait" means cannot criticize. ok lor, i hardly make movies myself means cannot criticize movie. i hardly paint means cannot criticize paintings. then you hardly make humans means you cannot criticize anybody else leh. i really wonder where you got this logic from.
    Last edited by night86mare; 13th May 2008 at 08:35 PM.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Leong23's Avatar
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    Default Re: Singapore Photography Forum: Encouraging Photography or Encouraging Exploiting?

    Wah... So defensive

    Didn't post xmm photo doesn't meant people don't shoot or can't shoot portrait.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Singapore Photography Forum: Encouraging Photography or Encouraging Exploiting?

    Quote Originally Posted by Leong23 View Post
    Wah... So defensive

    Didn't post xmm photo doesn't meant people don't shoot or can't shoot portrait.
    anyhow, shoot xmm or not..

    PLEASE HELP OUT AT THE PHOTOAID coming this weekend

    rather than vent frustration about your own life, vent frustration about other people..

    DO SOMETHING POSITIVE. BE HAPPY AND MAKE OTHERS HAPPY

    thread link here

    p.s. caps to grab people's attention hor

  16. #16

    Default Re: Singapore Photography Forum: Encouraging Photography or Encouraging Exploiting?

    Closed so that no ppl here will argue, as i have make my points clear, no point promoting photography and yet same time welcoming threads to exploit photographers, especially newbies.

    It will be harmful to them, so what if they shoot for fun, not serious, passion not money? Is this correct by allowing newbies to get exploited in the first place?
    Eat breath LIVERPOOL!!!

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