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Thread: **Disappointed with the Flaky Malaysian Photographers**

  1. #1

    Default **Disappointed with the Flaky Malaysian Photographers**

    I have been here for a total of 5 months, during this time I have worked with over 60 photographers and am sad to say that only a handful of them have been “professional”, when I say professional I mean by their working ethics and not the quality of the pictures. Being a photographer is all about passion, it is a form of art and with this comes future works that blow minds.

    I came here to visit the home I grew up in, having lived here for 21 years, I realised why I had moved away in the first place. People here always complain that the world does not give them a chance to show their works, that Malaysians are ‘left behind’ in a world, which is moving forward. Now I can see why this is.

    I’m writing this so that the flakes (adjective: a flaky person; foolish, silly, frivolous, flighty, spacey.) out there will understand what they are doing to the professionals in the industry.

    When a professional Art Nude model like myself comes to Malaysia you would think that they will be overjoyed at the chance to further themselves/skills/portfolio so that they may have a chance to be professional in the art of photography and move overseas, but yet that is not the outcome. Instead I have received mostly flaky bookings, cancellations and constant bargaining of my rates (sometimes asking for a down price of RM50 per hour) like as if I am a piece of meet on sale at a flee market. For this I am gravely disappointed.

    Put it this way, if you want quality then you have to pay for quality and my rates of RM350 per hour are below the average price. If anyone would have taken the time to look up online then they would have seen that I’m undercharging for my work, and I know I am good at what I do.

    This is why models from overseas don’t come here, they don’t see the point of being underpaid for their talent whether it is nude or not, the industry here does not respect the worldwide market nor does it take care of its models.

    What makes it worse is those who are not even half way to the professional level in their works have the cheek to think they are so good that Id do free shoots with them, and when I turn them down they then say I am not good at what I do anyway. What right does anyone have to say that to a model, especially one who has worked with world renown published photographers? If I was not good at my works then well known photogs would have not asked me to work with them on a regular basis.

    I get irritated with the things that come out of photographers mouths, i.e., “I am a hobbyist so could u give me half price” (I work with hobbyists in US and they are very very good at what they do, it doesn’t make a difference to me) or “I think your works are not that good, I can do better for a TFCD” (and their works are well below my view of good) or “I will give you the same rate if you will let me have sex with you while I take your picture”…. It disgusts me on levels, which I can’t even begin to explain. Flirting and dirty talk is more common in this country then any other one I have visited.

    You may think that I get this because I’m a nude model in an Asian country but then why don’t I get it in other counties in Asia?

    Its simple, this happens because the photographers are not exposed to the worldwide market (taking into consideration the fact that the law does not help as it is a Muslim country), they do not wish to move forward, they stay in their comfort zone when all they have to do is go to Spore to find good models and pay to get good talents. But no, they wont bother because they don’t have the passion enough to spend out to get quality, instead they rather use a first timer model that is scared of showing their body and pictures don’t turn out good just because they wish to save a few bucks.

    I have stressed my concerns to all the photographers I have worked with here and they all do agree that Malaysian’s have to somehow buck up or there will be no recognitios for their works in the worldwide market. The world spins and doesn’t wait for you, it will leave you behind. The unprofessional photographers are killing what chance the professionals have to succeed and move overseas to become well known.

    I do know that I will get many who will defend against what I am saying here and chances are they will hate me for it because the truth does get to people but I am only writing this in what spare time I have to make Malaysians realise what they are doing to their reputation.

    I think overall I have had some great experiences, especially with the crew from Picture Elements, Sun from Penang and Ted Adnan’s groups, many should learn from them, as they are what I call up to par and prosessional in all sense of the word. They will go far as they are humble, kind, fun, and put all passion in to what they wish the result to be. I have great respect for those who are professional but to those and only those who are flaky with cancellations, flirtatiousness, with bargain and take for grated an opportunity of a lifetime I have no respect for.

    I do hope and pray that whomever reads this will take it and use it to better themselves, I am not putting down those who are good at what they do, I have no intentions to do so. I am only stressing the fact that the photography society in Malaysia has to change.

    At the end of the day we all have to better ourselves to achieve our dreams and just because you may have the best pictures doesn’t mean you are good because professionalism is all about ATTITUDE & RESPECT as well.

    Thank you for reading my long post, take care and good luck in your future works ☺

  2. #2
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    Default Re: **Disappointed with the Flaky Malaysian Photographers**

    Uhh, this is a singpaore forum...leh, though I think there are some Malaysians here.

    Can't comment, cause I don't do paid shoots....my models are only my 3 yr old & 1 yr old girls. Maybe that's why cannot improe alot...

    Sorry you feel that way.
    "Photography is an austere and blazing poetry of the real" -Ansel Adams

  3. #3

    Default Re: **Disappointed with the Flaky Malaysian Photographers**

    hi tarachin,

    sorry to hear that your experience in asia was not so favourable, especially in particular countries. i do not think there is really any case to defend cases of flirting, bargaining, etc. but you have to see the context - the idea of a professional model (especially a nude model) is a lot less common here in this side of the world, because of cultures, etc. not that we don't have any , it's just that it is not so common.

    add that along with the fact that even in singapore you do have a lot of students dabbling in part-time "model" shoots - they do not intend to step into the field permanently, but they just want to earn a quick buck. these do not start off with tfcd, maybe 1 or 2 times and they start charging rates. and the rates are lower than usual. one could then say that this leads to a culture where you get all the bargaining (and possibly flirting). but that is singapore, and you talk about malaysia here.

    anyhow - there can only be improvement, and i hope you will not take this negative experience too seriously. cheers and i do hope you had a relatively comfortable time in singapore.

  4. #4

    Default Re: **Disappointed with the Flaky Malaysian Photographers**

    Quote Originally Posted by blive View Post
    Uhh, this is a singpaore forum...leh, though I think there are some Malaysians here.

    Can't comment, cause I don't do paid shoots....my models are only my 3 yr old & 1 yr old girls. Maybe that's why cannot improe alot...

    Sorry you feel that way.
    Thank you dear, the reason why i put it up on CS is because there are may malaysians on this site even if they live in Spore so i thought id try to reach out to as many as possible.. thank you

  5. #5

    Default Re: **Disappointed with the Flaky Malaysian Photographers**

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    hi tarachin,

    sorry to hear that your experience in asia was not so favourable, especially in particular countries. i do not think there is really any case to defend cases of flirting, bargaining, etc. but you have to see the context - the idea of a professional model (especially a nude model) is a lot less common here in this side of the world, because of cultures, etc. not that we don't have any , it's just that it is not so common.

    add that along with the fact that even in singapore you do have a lot of students dabbling in part-time "model" shoots - they do not intend to step into the field permanently, but they just want to earn a quick buck. these do not start off with tfcd, maybe 1 or 2 times and they start charging rates. and the rates are lower than usual. one could then say that this leads to a culture where you get all the bargaining (and possibly flirting). but that is singapore, and you talk about malaysia here.

    anyhow - there can only be improvement, and i hope you will not take this negative experience too seriously. cheers and i do hope you had a relatively comfortable time in singapore.
    Thank you dear, I will try my best to not get that upset even 11 years in the industry can never get me used to the amount of flakes that i have to work with from time to time, I do like the sporian photogs tho as they are very pro even tho their works may not be that good

    Thank you for your support

  6. #6

    Default Re: **Disappointed with the Flaky Malaysian Photographers**

    come dear, let's step out for a puff...


    btw, when is it tht you'll be back in town? i forgot..

  7. #7
    Senior Member xtemujin's Avatar
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    Arrow Re: **Disappointed with the Flaky Malaysian Photographers**

    ai pee, ai chee, atln.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: **Disappointed with the Flaky Malaysian Photographers**

    Here here, very well said!

    I am also sorry to hear that your experience here wasnt favourable but neither am I surprised by this. The people you have encountered are giving everyone a bad name and ruining the chance many people have of becoming successful, although I feel that if they have enough passion and drive they will be able to escape from the unfavourbale image created by these idiots.

  9. #9

    Default Re: **Disappointed with the Flaky Malaysian Photographers**

    Quote Originally Posted by Brand View Post
    come dear, let's step out for a puff...


    btw, when is it tht you'll be back in town? i forgot..

    hahahahha, you always crack me up, Ill be in town on friday, can we meet for a bit at nite or saturday afternoon?

  10. #10
    Senior Member Sion's Avatar
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    Default Re: **Disappointed with the Flaky Malaysian Photographers**

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarachin8 View Post
    Thank you dear, the reason why i put it up on CS is because there are may malaysians on this site even if they live in Spore so i thought id try to reach out to as many as possible.. thank you
    Don't you worry about us.

    The Malaysians who surf CS are okay type lah.

  11. #11

    Default Re: **Disappointed with the Flaky Malaysian Photographers**

    some of the more professional ones here are very handsome too


  12. #12
    Senior Member Sion's Avatar
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    Default Re: **Disappointed with the Flaky Malaysian Photographers**

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    some of the more professional ones here are very handsome too

    I don't think you should use the word "handsome" on a gal.
    Last edited by Sion; 13th May 2008 at 09:58 AM.

  13. #13

    Default Re: **Disappointed with the Flaky Malaysian Photographers**

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarachin8 View Post

    I get irritated with the things that come out of photographers mouths, i.e., “I am a hobbyist so could u give me half price” (I work with hobbyists in US and they are very very good at what they do, it doesn’t make a difference to me)

    Hi Damsel in distress,

    Can I ask you a question? Do you do shopping? Buying clothes, watches, shoes, jewelery and etc??? Do you ask for discount?

    It is the same everywhere, US,UK,HK,TW,SG...people will always bargain for cheaper price....
    Objection !!!

  14. #14

    Default Re: **Disappointed with the Flaky Malaysian Photographers**

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarachin8 View Post
    hahahahha, you always crack me up, Ill be in town on friday, can we meet for a bit at nite or saturday afternoon?
    hehehe... sat afternoon would be fine

    gimme a call when u set foot on SG soil again ok?

  15. #15

    Default Re: **Disappointed with the Flaky Malaysian Photographers**

    Quote Originally Posted by ninelives View Post
    Hi Damsel in distress,

    Can I ask you a question? Do you do shopping? Buying clothes, watches, shoes, jewelery and etc??? Do you ask for discount?

    It is the same everywhere, US,UK,HK,TW,SG...people will always bargain for cheaper price....

    NO, they dont for your infomation (im referring to the US and European counties), they have never cos everyone knows that if a model charges a cirtain price that is her price and if they can afford it then they just dont work with the model, it is disrespectful to ask a model to lower her price...

    I think you have to go overseas cos its clear you dont know the market in counties other then Asia... this is the reason I posted this in the first place... hmmm, some never learn even a bit from a read... what a waste....

    OH, AND BY THE WAY... IM NOT A ITEM ON SALE OK? IM NOT SOMETHING YOU CAN SHOP FOR SO PLS TAKE YOU COMMENTS ELSEWHERE AS I AM A PERSON WITH ART IN MIND AND PASSION IN HEART , IF YOU CANT RESPECT THAT THEN BUGGER OFF!!!!

  16. #16

    Default Re: **Disappointed with the Flaky Malaysian Photographers**

    Quote Originally Posted by Brand View Post
    hehehe... sat afternoon would be fine

    gimme a call when u set foot on SG soil again ok?
    will do brandon, ill give ya a call then, cant wait to meet up with a level headed person for a change, im going nuts...hahahha...

    Miss ya

  17. #17

    Default Re: **Disappointed with the Flaky Malaysian Photographers**

    It sounds like you have culture shock despite growing up in Malaysia.

    I am a professional in a different field and my going rates are the highest in Asia, but it's actually low internationally (I work regionally.) I used to face the same problems with potential clients cold calling and bargaining like it's a wet market. I usually politely decline the job on the spot if they offer me anything less than 50% of my rate. If they offer anything higher but don't meet my criteria, I'll promise to get back after I check my schedule and drop them a msg/email later, informing them I'm busy. This way I minimize offending anybody. If you offend enough people, even the people in the lower rung of the industry, eventually it'll affect your reputation and standing in the market.

    It makes no sense for me to charge my good clients a high price, only to give discounts to unknown/unreliable ones. It should be the other way around. If the well paying and regular ones find out, they're going to be pissed. Besides, if I fill my calendar with low margin jobs, I won't have space for well paying ones when they come in.

    If you are as good as claimed. Eventually, you weed out those who are not worth the trouble and have a regular set of well paying clients taking up all your time. You might want to consider raising your rates at this point.
    Last edited by bernards; 14th May 2008 at 11:46 AM.

  18. #18

    Default Re: **Disappointed with the Flaky Malaysian Photographers**

    Quote Originally Posted by bernards View Post
    It sounds like you have culture shock despite growing up in Malaysia.

    I am a professional in a different field and my going rates are the highest in Asia, but it's actually low internationally (I work regionally.) I used to face the same problems with potential clients cold calling and bargaining like it's a wet market. I usually politely decline the job on the spot if they offer me anything less than 50% of my rate. If they offer anything higher but don't meet my criteria, I'll promise to get back after I check my schedule and drop them a msg/email later, informing them I'm busy. This way I minimize offending anybody. If you offend enough people, even the people in the lower rung of the industry, eventually it'll affect your reputation and standing in the market.

    It makes no sense for me to charge my good clients a high price, only to give discounts to unknown/unreliable ones. It should be the other way around. If the well paying and regular ones find out, they're going to be pissed. Besides, if I fill my calendar with low margin jobs, I won't have space for well paying ones when they come in.

    If you are as good as claimed. Eventually, you weed out those who are not worth the trouble and have a regular set of well paying clients taking up all your time. You might want to consider raising your rates at this point.

    very very sound advice. i agree completely.

  19. #19

    Default Re: **Disappointed with the Flaky Malaysian Photographers**

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarachin8 View Post
    NO, they dont for your infomation (im referring to the US and European counties), they have never cos everyone knows that if a model charges a cirtain price that is her price and if they can afford it then they just dont work with the model, it is disrespectful to ask a model to lower her price...

    I think you have to go overseas cos its clear you dont know the market in counties other then Asia... this is the reason I posted this in the first place... hmmm, some never learn even a bit from a read... what a waste....

    OH, AND BY THE WAY... IM NOT A ITEM ON SALE OK? IM NOT SOMETHING YOU CAN SHOP FOR SO PLS TAKE YOU COMMENTS ELSEWHERE AS I AM A PERSON WITH ART IN MIND AND PASSION IN HEART , IF YOU CANT RESPECT THAT THEN BUGGER OFF!!!!


    You dont know what i'm working as, you are dealing with RM350 , I am dealing with 5 digits deal. I have worked with all kind of skins ; yellow, white, brown, black....

    I am dealing in IT services. You are dealing with modeling services. My point is :


    buying an item and buying a service is the same !!!! It is a deal ! When money is concern, people will ask for cheaper price. They dont give a damn if you are an artist or you are a professional, if you dont agree on the term, then the deal is broken, you customer will source for another option.

    Period.

    ps: need not reply.
    Objection !!!

  20. #20
    Senior Member Sion's Avatar
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    Default Re: **Disappointed with the Flaky Malaysian Photographers**

    Quote Originally Posted by ninelives View Post
    You dont know what i'm working as, you are dealing with RM350 , I am dealing with 5 digits deal.


    This is a bit like little girl meets Big Boy.

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