An entry level DSLR

[windwaver]

Nikon D40 vs Olympus E-410

Sensor size 23.7 x 15.5 mm (Nikon DX) 4/3 " (18.00 x 13.50 mm)

I'm not a pro shooter but based on just the sensor size between the cameras, can I say the D40 has an edge because it's sensor is way larger than the E-410?

[Oly5050]

Guys....

[theITguy]

My answer to your question:

It depends. Colours Realism Output, Body Design, Lens, Flash, Portability are just some other factors to consider. The sensor is just one of the things to consider, depending on your needs. For some people, we buy a system, so D40 will in fact lower some of the advantages Nikon system provides.

[Mikefellh]

Windwaver, not a good way to start with your first post on ClubSnap...people don't know if your question is serious, or if you're a troll trying to stir up trouble due to the way you worded your question.

Personally the FourThirds cameras have the edge because of the 2x multiplication factor (not a crop factor) we can have smaller lenses, like the size of the 300mm f/2.8 lens which has an equivalent focal length of 600mm!

If you look at a graphical representation of sensor sizes, there's not that much difference in size...in fact most of the difference is because Nikons use a 3:2 ratio and FourThirds a 4:3 ratio...check out this article:
http://www.thinkcamera.com/news/article/mps/uan/644

I've used medium format (6x6), 35mm (for 20 years), and larger format cameras, and no one format is better than the others, they're all just different. I've used FourThirds for almost three years now and I don't think other sensor sizes have an edge...each has their features AND disadvantages.

[night86mare]

Originally Posted by windwaver Nikon D40 vs Olympus E-410 Sensor size 23.7 x 15.5 mm (Nikon DX) 4/3 " (18.00 x 13.50 mm) I'm not a pro shooter but based on just the sensor size between the cameras, can I say the D40 has an edge because it's sensor is way larger than the E-410?

first off, this is very diplomatic; but you're new, perhaps forgiven. definitely camera groups are not "exclusive" but these are more catered for discussions pertaining to the system itself, comparisons are best avoided.

the best part is, you came into the 4/3 corner, where most of the viewers will be 4/3 users, i.e. olympus mostly. and you ask if nikon will be better. that's like well, a tourist walking into old trafford during a home game and asking if arsenal is better, for instance.

next time, post such queries in the newbies or general corner - believe me, nikon and olympus users do browse those sections too. i'll let the 4/3 people answer the part about how a smaller sensor doesn't necessarily mean inferior. besides, a camera is a lot more than just pure image quality; similarly, image quality has a slight correlation with the camera body, but there are other factors such as lens quality, etc as well.

cheers.

[srinivasanj]

Yo..! To just answer your question...if you are not a pro shooter...dont worry about the sensor size! End of Story...

And very honestly, I wouldnt think that buying a camera should be based on the sensor size..you almost always get what you pay for...only difference being you get more than what you pay for with Olympus 410,510,420 etc...! Cheap with a dual kit lens is purely unbelievable!

As far as the post being present here, I will let experienced guys handle that!

[aryanto]

Originally Posted by srinivasanj Yo..! To just answer your question...if you are not a pro shooter...dont worry about the sensor size! End of Story...

It will be the same thing if you go ask the users in canon thread, or ask the same thing about canon/olympus camera the same way in nikon thread.
Some pro shooter also do not worry about sensor size... so the statement above is not totally right.

Originally Posted by srinivasanj And very honestly, I wouldnt think that buying a camera should be based on the sensor size..you almost always get what you pay for...only difference being you get more than what you pay for with Olympus 410,510,420 etc...! Cheap with a dual kit lens is purely unbelievable!

Yes, but you can probably also get a similar deal with Sony.

Originally Posted by srinivasanj As far as the post being present here, I will let experienced guys handle that!

If you notice some of the people who reply to you are the experienced guys, so you might brush people the wrong way.
Enough of this. I take it that you are not very diplomatic or sensitive, so it is up to you to improve on that.

Anyway, Here is a tip that I can suggest to you (a self confessed non-pro) on how to compare a camera.

1. Get (borrow/buy) yourself a CF card (most of these kind of camera accept CF Card) if you dont already have one, preferably 2 MB.
Also probably get (borrow/buy) an SD card, preferably 2 MB.
2. With both, go to exhibition with different camera brand/model you want to compare and before putting in the card, ask the exhibitor (so they will not accuse you for stealing theirs)
Take sample shot yourself. If you are not good (since the camera is operated by a user and thus there can be a factor of user error), bring a friend who you know can take better picture with more consistency than you.
3. Set the picture to be JPEG, at highest possible resolution (making sure you have big enough cards). If you do not know how to set this, ask the salesman to set for you.
4. Set ISO to 200 because this is indoor shoot, may be also try ISO 400, but do both.
5. Use all the available modes (macro/portrait/landscape/sports) to take picture, but you need to write down which mode you are capturing for each, so write this on paper. If you do not know how to set this, ask the salesman to set for you. Obviously since you are not pro, I do not suggest testing with Apperture/Speed and Program mode, god forbid Manual mode.
6. If possible, try all different lense available on the exhibition for that camera, else you will be doing yourself a bad move owning a DSLR with only kit lense.
7. Do the above for all camera you want to test.
8. Do not submit to pressure from exhibitor to buy on the spot.
9. Go home and compare the picture quality, because on-camera LCD display is too small and can be deceiving because each camera has different quality LCD, and anyway if you send your pictures to your friends they will look on computer so do so yourself.
10. After comparing picture quality you then buy the one you like. If you like all and cannot tell the difference, then heck, go for the best offer.

You may hate yourself and say you make a wrong decision sometime down the line, but you need to "pay" for gaining that experience in the first place. Nothing is free.

[drewdam]

Originally Posted by windwaver Nikon D40 vs Olympus E-410 Sensor size 23.7 x 15.5 mm (Nikon DX) 4/3 " (18.00 x 13.50 mm) I'm not a pro shooter but based on just the sensor size between the cameras, can I say the D40 has an edge because it's sensor is way larger than the E-410?

if your concern is the size of sensor ...the u should take a look at Pentax and Sony as well...enough say.

[bousozoku]

Simple comparisons always amuse me.

Is a 3 litre engine better than a 2 litre engine?

Is a CPU with a faster clock speed actually faster?

Is a meal for $4.99 better than a $3.99 meal?

It's generally pretty easy to decide that things aren't always easily defined, even if you can't find good answers to the questions.

I find it really difficult to assume anything. The only assumption that might be valid is that, given various Nikon sensors of the same age, the bigger one will likely be better.

I really wish that deciding on technology was so easy. I wonder if Olympus got their sensors from Nikon's supplier if things would be different. I think the noise would be worse, but that's just a guess. Anyway, I don't use Olympus equipment because of their sensors. I use Olympus equipment because of their lenses.

[srinivasanj]

Originally Posted by bousozoku Simple comparisons always amuse me. I really wish that deciding on technology was so easy. I wonder if Olympus got their sensors from Nikon's supplier if things would be different. I think the noise would be worse, but that's just a guess. Anyway, I don't use Olympus equipment because of their sensors. I use Olympus equipment because of their lenses.

A perfect example of what drives a person towards a particular brand. To reiterate, sensor size might not give you a significant advantage. Package, handling, feel, comfort, price, expandability (lenses, softwares) etc. etc. are some of the other parameters. If we were to draw up a matrix of the different parameters and compare, I would think the answer would clearer. Something like this:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/comp..._e410&show=all

A true comparison of 'camera numbers'..And...this might still not tell you which one is better!

[aryanto]

Originally Posted by srinivasanj A perfect example of what drives a person towards a particular brand. To reiterate, sensor size might not give you a significant advantage. Package, handling, feel, comfort, price, expandability (lenses, softwares) etc. etc. are some of the other parameters. If we were to draw up a matrix of the different parameters and compare, I would think the answer would clearer. Something like this: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/comp..._e410&show=all A true comparison of 'camera numbers'..And...this might still not tell you which one is better!

If you read other threads here you will see that the consensus from olympus community is that DPReview comparison is a biased comparison, and not a true comparison, even when they say the numbers are objective, the method to obtain the numbers may not, as each camera is different.
Some criteria in that comparison such as lense thread or image ratio cannot be decided as to which one is best. They are just different between these two.

But then again for non-pro probably these are a bit too technical and may be you will not push the test that far. DPReview comparison that you mention are quite technical and some of them does not matter to some, eg: price if they simply aim for the best.

So please compare based on what I suggest to you. Compare the images that you capture. Do not compare the images based on the marketing sample, as they pay professional to do that (who has the skill to overcome camera limitations, has all the time to do it, and post processing may be done too).

By the way, price is bad to compare as it goes up or down depending on exchange rate and may be pushed down to make room for new release, such as the coming olympus 420 to replace 410.

[bernards]

For an entry level camera. I'll worry more about stuff like build quality, viewfinder, entry level lenses, UI, etc. With that said. I'll for the Nikon.

[srinivasanj]

Originally Posted by aryanto If you read other threads here you will see that the consensus from olympus community is that DPReview comparison is a biased comparison, and not a true comparison, even when they say the numbers are objective, the method to obtain the numbers may not, as each camera is different. Some criteria in that comparison such as lense thread or image ratio cannot be decided as to which one is best. They are just different between these two. But then again for non-pro probably these are a bit too technical and may be you will not push the test that far. DPReview comparison that you mention are quite technical and some of them does not matter to some, eg: price if they simply aim for the best.

You are right. The comparisons are based on the numbers that are presented by the individual companies. To answer windwaver's question, which was comparing the sensor sizes based on numbers again, its fair enough to say that these numbers are not what they might mean to you. For example, bigger sensor doesnt mean a better camera if the image processing software is not good. So where is the edge? There are a lot of other parameters that cannot be quantified which have a say in the decision making. Some simple things like hand grip, placement of function buttons etc. might be very important in the long run. And I hate the fact that the cameras can only be tested indoors, very understandable though. But that can be used to judge some of the camera's 'soft' qualities (build, fell etc). Reading reviews (a lot of them), comparing image galleries, you tube videos etc. are pretty important too. To buy an entry-level DSLR from today's market is very difficult. The prices are so competitive.

[bousozoku]

Originally Posted by bernards For an entry level camera. I'll worry more about stuff like build quality, viewfinder, entry level lenses, UI, etc. With that said. I'll for the Nikon.

That's an odd conclusion you've made then.

[VR Man]

Originally Posted by bernards For an entry level camera. I'll worry more about stuff like build quality, viewfinder, entry level lenses, UI, etc. With that said. I'll for the Nikon.

Eh? This guy reply is as _ _ _ _ _ as the thread starter. This is such a sweeping statement without much thought.

All of us worry or should I say consider characteristics like build quality, viewfinder, entry level lenses, UI, etc all the time, everytime before we buy any camera brand, regardless of our photographic skill.

[VR Man]

Originally Posted by windwaver Nikon D40 vs Olympus E-410 Sensor size 23.7 x 15.5 mm (Nikon DX) 4/3 " (18.00 x 13.50 mm) I'm not a pro shooter but based on just the sensor size between the cameras, can I say the D40 has an edge because it's sensor is way larger than the E-410?

I think you should look at the lens that each brand has to offer and decide which lens system you are going to use for your type of photographic needs. Also look into the cost of the lens as both Nikon and Olympus have rather good and expensive high end lens so you can budget for the future.

Look also at the colors that each brand produces out of the camera before you do any photoshop processing. There is a difference between the colors, e.g. the blue skies that are captured and produced by Nikon and Olympus. I personally fell in love with the Olympus blue. Only you can decide which appeals to you.

You can also try renting both the cameras for a day to do a comparisom. Better to pay rent then to buy something that you dont like.

Disclaimer. I used both systems, Olympus E-1 and Nikon FM-2 (D3, soon). So I am not biased towards either brand. I use the correct tool that gets the job done.

[bernards]

Originally Posted by bousozoku That's an odd conclusion you've made then.

It just me wishing I plonked my cash on the D300 instead.

[bernards]

Originally Posted by VR Man Eh? This guy reply is as _ _ _ _ _ as the thread starter. This is such a sweeping statement without much thought. All of us worry or should I say consider characteristics like build quality, viewfinder, entry level lenses, UI, etc all the time, everytime before we buy any camera brand, regardless of our photographic skill.

I didn't see the need to be so obvious to state other considerations first before looking at stuff like sensor size. I assumed anybody who can read will arrive at this conclusion after reading those two sentences. I'll try to be more careful for your sake in the future.

[bousozoku]

Originally Posted by bernards It just me wishing I plonked my cash on the D300 instead.

The D300 is understandable. It's the standout dSLR body right now but the D40 isn't even close.

I'm not saying that the D40 is a bad choice, but against the E-410 or E-420, it only has the better grip to recommend it to me and the grip is not necessary for the way many people will use their entry level dSLR. The more compact shape will appeal to more people, especially with the Olympus 25mm pancake lens.

[bernards]

Originally Posted by bousozoku The D300 is understandable. It's the standout dSLR body right now but the D40 isn't even close. I'm not saying that the D40 is a bad choice, but against the E-410 or E-420, it only has the better grip to recommend it to me and the grip is not necessary for the way many people will use their entry level dSLR. The more compact shape will appeal to more people, especially with the Olympus 25mm pancake lens.

The D300 comment is not part of the comparison. It's just me wishful thinking. Sorry for the confusion.

On the note of the 410. I found the viewfinder and LCD to be quite lacking. The 420 is another story with it's interesting features. I just hope Olympus doesn't put that sorry excuse for a LCD on it. On the other hand, Nikon has got some affordable VR lenses that fit quite well with the smaller D cameras.