Canon Strobist.. how?

[Headshotzx]

Hey people! As with every flash user that's been to strobist.com, I've begun to take an interest in portable multi flash setups. I initially wanted to purchase a 'normal view on 1.6crop cam' 28mm or 30mm, but have now shifted my plans to a strobist gear setup.

I'll be getting an umbrella & some lee filters first (in 2 week's time), and hold off any other more excessively expensive purchase till near the end of year. I need umbrella advise more than anything because I'm going to purchase it soon for a few group shots of my school's CCA and stuff. Will have (tall) people hold it up for me (who will also get blinded by my awesome light), so no point getting a stand so soon.

I'd like to know what's the cost of setting up a wireless 2-flash system, and what I should look out for (what to buy, why, and where?).

I already own a 580EXii which I've come to love, and I've been modding it pretty much once every 2 weeks or something (twice this mth).

I plan to add a 430EX to my 580EXii because I also regularly borrow my friend's 30D for shooting events (where the 430EX might go), and I might lend the 430EX to my other friends shooting the same event. This will also serve as my wireless slave flash.

So, from what I know, I'll need to get:

An umbrella or 2 (recommend me one? Something that's not too small like tagotech's 33", efficient and not as expensive-- It's going to see more indoor usage)
A Lightstand & Mount (for flash + umbrella)

As for a mount: Can I use my freebie tripod and mount the flash onto it? I know I won't be able to fit an umbrella onto it, but lets say I want full forward flash (maybe backlighting @ 1/2 power or something), this can work right?

Also-- Lee filters can be bought from cathay photo right? A pack costs about how much?

How much would the above 3 items (umbrella + lightstand + mount) cost? I'd like a reliable setup that is effective, mobile and not to expensive.

And is the wireless of 580EXII sufficient enough to trigger the 430EX without line-of-sight? I mean, how'd I get 2 (or 3, depends if my friend also gets a flash) flashes off camera and shoot them at once? I know the ST-E2 works, but is that any useful, and how does it work? I know they're those triggers from tagotech, but are they any good? Heard there's some compatibility prob with canon flashes yup.

So, for a budding wireless strobist who's on a budget (for non-flash items), what d'you guys recommend?

Thanks!

[flipfreak]

your qns abit confusing but in a nutshell ...

1. since u already got a 580, then u can use it as a master on the camera to trigger a 430 if u buy it. however, the wireless on the camera works on visible light sent out from the master so u do need line of sight or at least walls to bounce off from. the working distance is not too far as well. do take note of the slave u buying. some of the canon flashes do not have a manual mode unless u using ettl all the way. the signal weakens in strong sunlight as well so take note of that.

2. the umbrella depends on what kind of effect u looking for. generally, using a white through umbrella is the optimal setup i tried so far. u need to get a umbrella holder that will hold the umbrella and the flash. as far as i know, it doesnt hold up on a tripod so u need to get a lightstand for this. if u want to cut cost, u can mount the flash on its stand and that can be hook up to the tripod quick release plate that u can use on the tripod if u already have a tripod.

bad thing is that tripods are generally heavier than lightstands and can't go as high without compromising stability. but it will work on short notice.

3. i have no idea why u are getting filters for this so no comments from me.

4. u need to shop around for this. it can be as cheap as less than 100 for the whole thing or more than 200 depending on the quality.

5. the new china triggers can work with canon flashes but note tat u will have to shoot using manual mode. it is alot slower and not advisable if u need to shoot quickly. also take note that if u are going wireless via radio, u can actually get flash from other brands because it doesn't matter what flash u use anymore. i would get nikon flashes because its cheap. consider sigma, metz, sunpak, nissin too. just make sure the flash comes in manual mode.

[Headshotzx]

Originally Posted by flipfreak your qns abit confusing but in a nutshell ... 1. since u already got a 580, then u can use it as a master on the camera to trigger a 430 if u buy it. however, the wireless on the camera works on visible light sent out from the master so u do need line of sight or at least walls to bounce off from. the working distance is not too far as well. do take note of the slave u buying. some of the canon flashes do not have a manual mode unless u using ettl all the way. the signal weakens in strong sunlight as well so take note of that. 2. the umbrella depends on what kind of effect u looking for. generally, using a white through umbrella is the optimal setup i tried so far. u need to get a umbrella holder that will hold the umbrella and the flash. as far as i know, it doesnt hold up on a tripod so u need to get a lightstand for this. if u want to cut cost, u can mount the flash on its stand and that can be hook up to the tripod quick release plate that u can use on the tripod if u already have a tripod. bad thing is that tripods are generally heavier than lightstands and can't go as high without compromising stability. but it will work on short notice. 3. i have no idea why u are getting filters for this so no comments from me. 4. u need to shop around for this. it can be as cheap as less than 100 for the whole thing or more than 200 depending on the quality. 5. the new china triggers can work with canon flashes but note tat u will have to shoot using manual mode. it is alot slower and not advisable if u need to shoot quickly. also take note that if u are going wireless via radio, u can actually get flash from other brands because it doesn't matter what flash u use anymore. i would get nikon flashes because its cheap. consider sigma, metz, sunpak, nissin too. just make sure the flash comes in manual mode.

#1 thanks, I know the 580EX master could wirelessly trigger the 430EX, but I didn't know it could bounce around the wall.

#2 white shoot-through or reflective you mean? Im thinking of getting those that can do both, but they seem to be expensive as heck. Maybe just a white / silver 33" reflective would do for now.

#3 gels actually aren't relevant to wireless flash setup questions here. They're for colorbalancing flash light with ambient light yeah.

#4 what are referring to? the entire setup right? I want to know the brands that are easily available and cheap here in SG

#5 china triggers.. from tagotech eh? D'you think I'd need this? I don't shoot with flash outdoors that often, so maybe the master/wireless of the 580EXII will do right?

6) Where does the ST-E2 come into the picture? Is it purely wireless (non-line-of-sight)?

[flipfreak]

Originally Posted by Headshotzx #1 thanks, I know the 580EX master could wirelessly trigger the 430EX, but I didn't know it could bounce around the wall. #2 white shoot-through or reflective you mean? Im thinking of getting those that can do both, but they seem to be expensive as heck. Maybe just a white / silver 33" reflective would do for now. #3 gels actually aren't relevant to wireless flash setup questions here. They're for colorbalancing flash light with ambient light yeah. #4 what are referring to? the entire setup right? I want to know the brands that are easily available and cheap here in SG #5 china triggers.. from tagotech eh? D'you think I'd need this? I don't shoot with flash outdoors that often, so maybe the master/wireless of the 580EXII will do right? 6) Where does the ST-E2 come into the picture? Is it purely wireless (non-line-of-sight)?

1. the signal can bounce off walls but not too far though.

2. just get a shoot through. dun get those 2 in 1.

3. u want to get gels or filters?

4. alot of brands in sg. u can check out ruby or tagore or orient. too much pricing already.

5. stick with canon wireless first then. dun need to get ste2 unless u going canon all the way.

[Headshotzx]

Originally Posted by flipfreak 1. the signal can bounce off walls but not too far though. 2. just get a shoot through. dun get those 2 in 1. 3. u want to get gels or filters? 4. alot of brands in sg. u can check out ruby or tagore or orient. too much pricing already. 5. stick with canon wireless first then. dun need to get ste2 unless u going canon all the way.

#1,2,4 ) Thanks! Will ask around for further confirmation

#3) Lee Filters. I know what to get, just dunno the price / where to get

#5) Alright. "Line of sight" basically means that the flash can sense the other flash near infront of its 'optical transmitter' circle thingamagic right?

Thanks for your help man!

[J-Chan]

from my experience, you can just tape up the pins of Canon flashes other than the centre pin to make them trigger with radio triggers..

[Headshotzx]

Ah ok.. that's new..

Are these products alright for non-intensive use?

33" Silver Umberlla, Umbrella and Flash mount? I have a freebie canon tripod that goes up to 1.1m, and has a center hook for loading weights (bags etc) so it should be steady.

The above 2 items will cost me only S$50, but are they ok?

[AReality]

U don't need LEE filters. U need something like http://www.photogels.com/











.

[calebk]

Hey AReality,

What's that frame you use to mount the gels on the flashes? Are they DIY-ed? What materials do you use and how do you go about doing it?

[flipfreak]

i think its velcroed to the flash.

[BloodLamb]

I think you might not have have realised:

Using canon wireless system (ST-E2, 580) you will have ETTL flash. That is the flash will control its output automatically.

Using most (if not all) the third party wireless RF/optical triggers in the market you lose all TTL flash function. You have to use manual flash power (unless you use the flash auto sensor) setting on each flash you use.

I bought a set of Vivitar 285HV and Catus Triggers for this purpose. They trigger (V2s version) works my 430 too.

[Headshotzx]

@ AReality: Thanks! D'you know where I could get any kind of filters (lee filters, photogels..) in Singapore? I'm not going the credit card way yeah..

Has anyone tried http://www.stickyfilters.com/ before? How're they compared to the stuff on photogels.com / lee filters?

Anyplace where I can get cheap flashes & wireless triggers/transmitters here in SG without paying online? Problem with me is that I don't have access to CCs. Vivitars look old skool =)

Also

Originally Posted by Headshotzx 33" Silver Umberlla, Umbrella and Flash mount? I have a freebie canon tripod that goes up to 1.1m, and has a center hook for loading weights (bags etc) so it should be steady. The above 2 items will cost me only S$50, but are they ok?

[whoswho]

First you may want to ask yourself, what kinda shot you wanna achieve for your CCA group shots. How many people are there in the group shots?

Umbrellas are not necessary for group shots. And even if you are to use umbrellas, it will contribute -1ev or more on your flash output. So watch out for that. Even gels decrease the output.

So if you are into dramatic looks, there are a couple of good group shots in the strobist pool that details out the lighting techniques you may want to deploy (most of the time, bare flashes).

[Headshotzx]

Originally Posted by whoswho First you may want to ask yourself, what kinda shot you wanna achieve for your CCA group shots. How many people are there in the group shots? Umbrellas are not necessary for group shots. And even if you are to use umbrellas, it will contribute -1ev or more on your flash output. So watch out for that. Even gels decrease the output. So if you are into dramatic looks, there are a couple of good group shots in the strobist pool that details out the lighting techniques you may want to deploy (most of the time, bare flashes).

The CCA group thing is something that the umbrella has use of, not that the umbrella is needed yeah.

I'm looking to get an even spread of light onto portraits. If I want a soft look, I'll probably be looking for a shoot through, or place the umbrella pretty far away yeah?

I understand about the decreased output, so I should be going for something slightly more powerful for my attached-to-umbrella flash right?

[whoswho]

Originally Posted by Headshotzx The CCA group thing is something that the umbrella has use of, not that the umbrella is needed yeah. I'm looking to get an even spread of light onto portraits. If I want a soft look, I'll probably be looking for a shoot through, or place the umbrella pretty far away yeah? I understand about the decreased output, so I should be going for something slightly more powerful for my attached-to-umbrella flash right?

OK, for portraits(one or two subjects), shoot through umbrellas are great to create soft lighting, and you'll have to put the umbrella near. Putting it too far, it not be strong enough to light. The light falls off pretty quick from what I've observed.

Something powerful will be great. Like what flipfreak had mentioned, I would also recommend you to pick up one of those old Nikon flashes or the other brand flashes that flipfreak had mentioned. They are cheaper and are pretty effective. I too use a Canon DSLR and all my flashes are non-canon. Works very well. Even on camera, Nikon flashes works well (have to be careful with the voltage though).

If you don't intend to grab a light stand, a Super Clamp will be great. You can drop by Ruby to grab one. With a Super Clamp, you can clamp your flash on doors, tables, chairs (use them as your temporary light stands), and etc. Imagination and innovative manipulation of the environment is key in adding light to your photos.

All the best to your purchases!

[miketre]

Originally Posted by Headshotzx Ah ok.. that's new.. Are these products alright for non-intensive use? 33" Silver Umberlla, Umbrella and Flash mount? I have a freebie canon tripod that goes up to 1.1m, and has a center hook for loading weights (bags etc) so it should be steady. The above 2 items will cost me only S$50, but are they ok?

I've them. The umbrella is ok.
The flash mount does its job ok... in one unit, i had to use a bit of force to fit the spigot into the holder, so it doesn't give me the impression that it's built to tight tolerances. If I lost it, I'd buy it again (coz it's cheap)

[Headshotzx]

Ok, so maybe I should invest in something larger than 33" umbrellas. What umbrella (silver / white) can I get with S$50? If possible, a shoot through.

So a basic package for 1 set would be:

Umbrella - 45" umbrellas? How much are they?
Mount - Tagotech website's mount; looks alright
Lightstand - Taghtech's lightstand? (Click)
Flash - I still don't know what to get (or how much I should spend) for a second flash.
Radio Trigger - Tagotech's one is all I can get right?

Well, Lets say I get another radio trigger receiver to accompany the 580EX i already have. The cost of this would be.. S$200 without a flash. Lets say I have a budget cap of S$300, what flash should I go for? I'm looking for manual control and high power output for the least possible amount of money.

Also, I've got a question.. Let say I get tagotech's radio trigger. The transmitter will go onto my camera's hotshoe right? So if this is the case, then my 580EX will lose e-ttl right? I mean, sometimes for group photoshoots and stuff, I might want to try placing another flash behind them and backlight their hair (ala rock band posters), so the only way to do that would be to manually set both flashes (with radio receivers) and then shoot right?

Oh yeah, thanks so much for this informative discussion! I've learnt a lot.

[namespace]

If you are really interested in off camera flash, I'd suggest you invest on a more reliable radio trigger. I understand that some low cost trigger (e.g. "ebay trigger") tends to mis-fire and the join is weak which break off easily. For me, I've been using Elinchrom Skyport, fires every time and never mis-fire. However, if you shoot indoor, you might want to use the master/slave feature of Canon 580EX II instead.

For umbrella, start with a white shoot through type first.

[namespace]

For color gels, you might want to check out the following link.

http://www.amazon.com/Roscolux-Swatc...8PX2GMMVV5RZT3

[Headshotzx]

Originally Posted by namespace If you are really interested in off camera flash, I'd suggest you invest on a more reliable radio trigger. I understand that some low cost trigger (e.g. "ebay trigger") tends to mis-fire and the join is weak which break off easily. For me, I've been using Elinchrom Skyport, fires every time and never mis-fire. However, if you shoot indoor, you might want to use the master/slave feature of Canon 580EX II instead. For umbrella, start with a white shoot through type first.

If I were to use flash indoors, then I'd have to get a pretty expensive 430EX just for a slave to use my 580EX as a slave right?.. I'll go that way when I have another body or i'm certain that non-canon flashes aren't needed for off-camera flashes yeah.

What about Achievers? Are they reliable a brand? Apparently they're being sold by Cathay Photo..